Bubble king 400 ext. VS Deltec AP 1004 - Page 4

Vollekanne · 02/21/2007, 04:54 PM

@Hahnmeister

Quote:

FWIW, Klaus told me that ATI stole the design in a way from F-M. The designer, who contacted Klaus in the process for approval and such on the F-M designs, was not involved with the ATIs. I forget the exact details...

I follow your posts very interested, because you are a person, that spend a lot of time to understand how the technique works.
On the other hand you should know, that there are different parties in Germany, that fight each other. If I read your statement about the history of ATI, I know which party gave you the informations.
I would be better to hear both sides of the story and you will wonder, what is going on behind the scenes.
Don`t get me wrong, I don`t want to offend you, but you appear as an instrument of one party. I believe, that you don`t even know it.
It`s not good because I like your way to talk (post) about technical things

Regards

Vollekanne

btw. Yes, I belong to the other party! That`s why I know what I`m talking about.

TandN · 02/21/2007, 05:06 PM

Im not tring to prove anythin but he mentioned he wanted to knowand if I say no looks like im trying to hide something to be honest

Jar*Head · 02/21/2007, 05:18 PM

I know what you mean.

mavgi · 02/21/2007, 06:52 PM

REEFER714 & tanya72806:

i didn't said that someone try to hide something and maybe it's misunderstanding . i suggest to this compare to get real result
i believe the BM250 perform better then BK250 maybe i am wrong but just when we put both for test we can be sure about that.

IMO the best way is to put both skimmer in big sump and let them run and not as you said.

hahnmeister :
it's ok you can call to the BM250 dodge , camro or even scooter

but meantime i didn't saw any skimmer in this size and price that can perform like this skimmer .

hahnmeister · 02/21/2007, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vollekanne
@Hahnmeister

I follow your posts very interested, because you are a person, that spend a lot of time to understand how the technique works.
On the other hand you should know, that there are different parties in Germany, that fight each other. If I read your statement about the history of ATI, I know which party gave you the informations.
I would be better to hear both sides of the story and you will wonder, what is going on behind the scenes.
Don`t get me wrong, I don`t want to offend you, but you appear as an instrument of one party. I believe, that you don`t even know it.
It`s not good because I like your way to talk (post) about technical things

Regards

Vollekanne

btw. Yes, I belong to the other party! That`s why I know what I`m talking about.

The things that Klaus told me were fact, not just heresay of conjecture. Bankrupt is bankrupt... no 2 ways to look at that. I dont want to get into it here though, as I truly believe that if what is said is the case, then Oliver has that much more motivation to be that much better than the rest. There is nothing wrong with failure. If anything, the performance of ATI's more recent products is proof of that. Those ATI powermodules and bulbs make a few other's jealous, Im sure.

Its funny how its a taboo thing to do here at RC, but in other forums where ATI and Royal are both sponsors, the Germans seem to encourage the the open rivalry. And, FWIW, I know that for Oliver and Klaus to duke it out here (not that they would really want to, but if they did) would require them to both speak much better English.

hahnmeister · 02/21/2007, 07:52 PM

As for the dual inline skimmer idea... I wouldnt pass on the idea so quickly. There is a company that was doing research into the very idea much along the same lines of how a recirculating skimmer works, but the idea was that the ORP would be raised in the second chamber considerably more than the first one, and so both would have excellwnt skimming... just of different proteins. Actually... they were running 3 skimmers in a row to test this out.

When we skim our water, were lucky if we can pull out a small percentage of whats in there, so to run two skimmers in series, although not at attractive sounding as running them in parallel, might be a good idea..

hahnmeister · 02/21/2007, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by REEFER714
...I may go back to it later after i upgrade to 6x3x2.

What? you mean you would consider a non-square tank? What about 6'x6'x2'? 6x3x2 is barely an upgrade (40 gallons?) from what you have now... at least 8x4x2... thats double.

Oooooo 6x6x2... with a center overflow... thats a dream tank for me...

bernie lyons · 02/21/2007, 09:37 PM

comparison
I 've looked at the BK300 external skimmer (10") reaction chamber and i believe it puts out about roughly 1550 litres per hour and the bubble size was NOT smaller than the H&S designs. So if you compare it to a H&S A250 10" reaction chamber comes with two eheim 1260 pumps and puts out roughly 1600 litres per hour . How does the BK outperform the H&S ?
please enlighten me .
bernie lyons

Hobby Experience: 12years
Current Tanks: 450 gallon reef
Interests: reefkeeping

Jar*Head · 02/21/2007, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bernie lyons
comparison
I 've looked at the BK300 external skimmer (10") reaction chamber and i believe it puts out about roughly 1550 litres per hour and the bubble size was NOT smaller than the H&S designs. So if you compare it to a H&S A250 10" reaction chamber comes with two eheim 1260 pumps and puts out roughly 1600 litres per hour . How does the BK outperform the H&S ?
please enlighten me .
bernie lyons

Hobby Experience: 12years
Current Tanks: 450 gallon reef
Interests: reefkeeping

Hello Bernie Lyons

You mean 10" tall or 10" OD on the protein skimmer body? Per my calculation/conversion, 300mm = 11.811 inches. You just take 1.811" away from the skimmer

. BK 300 ext/int using Red Dragon BK 2000 which produce 2400 LPH at 48w. By the way, my BK400ext using the same pump so i know exactly how it work.

You were talking about BK250 with RDBK 1500.

I have use 2x1260 eheim from H&S on my DIY protein skimmer body. My friend Clint (saurus) using A-200 with 2x1260 and yes the bubble a little bit larger then BK skimmer on the real H&S skimmer or my DIY skimmer.

Each H&S eheim pump pushing 15 LPM X 60 = 900 LPH x 2 pumps = 1800 LPH

Hobby experience: 2 months
Current tank: 24g cube
Interest: anything and everything about Reef.

Please excuse my broken english cuz i am vietnamese.

Thanks

STeve

Jar*Head · 02/21/2007, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hahnmeister
What? you mean you would consider a non-square tank? What about 6'x6'x2'? 6x3x2 is barely an upgrade (40 gallons?) from what you have now... at least 8x4x2... thats double.

Oooooo 6x6x2... with a center overflow... thats a dream tank for me...

You have got to be kidding me right? I can't barely fit that cube into my house and my wife almost kill me

. My house is really small. I will go with bigger tank whenever i can afford for a bigger house.

hahnmeister · 02/21/2007, 10:51 PM

Oh, I know the feeling... Im in an apartment... the 48"x30"x20" tank took a little convincing... I have determined its the largest tank I can have in my place for several reasons including heat from the tank in summer, humidity, weight on the floor, and electrical usage (If I go any larger, I wont be able to run the tank lights and the TV at the same time because the whole dang living room is on one 15A circuit... dont even ask about the 12,000BTU Air Conditioner.

Jar*Head · 02/21/2007, 10:56 PM

15A? Are you going to run all T-5

. So your AC and tank take turn to run

. where are you from again? hehehehehe

hahnmeister · 02/22/2007, 01:23 AM

Wisconsin... so its only a couple months that get hot here... but yeah... the A/C and the tank will have to take turns. I run the A/C on a timer, then it shuts off at 3pm until 10 or 11pm... with me hoping things dont heat up too quickly (luckily, the apartment is very well insulated). Thats why this new tank will have a totally enclosed canopy with ducting that can both exit and take in air from the outside... keeping the apartment cooler and humidity free. Ill have enough 120mm fans in it too to keep everything cool too. The light mover is a large part of that plan as well... pretty much turns a 320watt HQI ballast into two for 5watts, and it provides a more natural light for the corals... its a win-win for me... prolly the only way I would manage a 120g in my place.

Daniel_ber · 02/22/2007, 02:48 AM

The skimmers I had in mind at first where
H&S: 3x1260 and 5x1260.
Deltec: 1004 and 1006.
Bubble King: 400 and 500.
Bubble master 2 or 3 x 300.
And I could buy 3-4 BM 300 for the price of one BK 400, but for some reason I am not that fond of BM, dont know why though.

Now I have made up my mind. I am 95% sure that I will go with the Deltec 1004 with the self cleaning head. Like someone said, BK is probably like a ferrari and Deltec more like Mercedes.

Altough I dont like mercedes at all (I think they suck), I do believe that the information given from the manufacturers are quite accurate. A Deltec ap 1004 with the self cleaning head is rated for systems between 5400-7200 VS the BKÂ´s 1500-4000, and for that reason (among others) I chose the AP 1004.

The other reason is that I am sure that both the BK and the Deltec will be more then enough for this system. In a couple of years I might upgrade to a system of about 6000-7000L.

Then I will probably purchase the BK 650, and have both the AP 1004 and the BK 650 going, so I wont have any problems then either.

Jar*Head · 02/22/2007, 10:40 AM

Hello Daniel Ber, i think AP-1004 with self cleaning head is the way to go. Don't you like H&S as they are a little cheaper with better built?

Jar*Head · 02/22/2007, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by hahnmeister
Wisconsin... so its only a couple months that get hot here... but yeah... the A/C and the tank will have to take turns. I run the A/C on a timer, then it shuts off at 3pm until 10 or 11pm... with me hoping things dont heat up too quickly (luckily, the apartment is very well insulated). Thats why this new tank will have a totally enclosed canopy with ducting that can both exit and take in air from the outside... keeping the apartment cooler and humidity free. Ill have enough 120mm fans in it too to keep everything cool too. The light mover is a large part of that plan as well... pretty much turns a 320watt HQI ballast into two for 5watts, and it provides a more natural light for the corals... its a win-win for me... prolly the only way I would manage a 120g in my place.

Send me your addy.

Jim_S · 02/22/2007, 10:44 AM

Actually, the Deltecs are cheaper overseas than the H&S's. He may be looking at that... not sure though....

But I'm sure that SCH will bring the $$$ amount right up...

Jar*Head · 02/22/2007, 10:51 AM

Isn't it cost 1500 bucks for the SCH?

mavgi · 02/22/2007, 11:25 AM

Daniel_ber

what ever you buy congratulation

just to let you know when you type 3 BM you mean to the BM250 which i pull with it : 35LPM about 2100 LPH (you can see the picture) .

the BM300 will pull near to the BK500 if not more then that

BM250 :

Jim_S · 02/22/2007, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by REEFER714
Isn't it cost 1500 bucks for the SCH?

I think its pretty close.

For the 1004 I think its right around $1200 ish. But I'm not sure how much it costs where ever the OP is located

That SCH looks really nice though....

Jim

Jar*Head · 02/22/2007, 01:15 PM

Yeah, i saw it before.

UCanDoIt · 02/22/2007, 02:25 PM

Without reading carefully through the thread, but just responding to the title, my vote is for the BubbleKING!

Hahnmeister, why do we have to says stuff that borders commercial promoting of BK products by bashing BM? Klaus did that on one of the threads and closed it down. I had the upmost respect for Klaus until that thread was closed down... now, that's unprofessional. But I still like those BKs... my dream skimmer. Christine

Quote:

Originally posted by Vollekanne
@Hahnmeister

I follow your posts very interested, because you are a person, that spend a lot of time to understand how the technique works.
On the other hand you should know, that there are different parties in Germany, that fight each other. If I read your statement about the history of ATI, I know which party gave you the informations.
I would be better to hear both sides of the story and you will wonder, what is going on behind the scenes.
Don`t get me wrong, I don`t want to offend you, but you appear as an instrument of one party. I believe, that you don`t even know it.
It`s not good because I like your way to talk (post) about technical things

Regards

Vollekanne

btw. Yes, I belong to the other party! That`s why I know what I`m talking about.

Jar*Head · 02/22/2007, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by UCanDoIt
Without reading carefully through the thread, but just responding to the title, my vote is for the BubbleKING!

Hahnmeister, why do we have to says stuff that borders commercial promoting of BK products by bashing BM? Klaus did that on one of the threads and closed it down. I had the upmost respect for Klaus until that thread was closed down... now, that's unprofessional. But I still like those BKs... my dream skimmer. Christine

Wanna buy my BK400ext Christine

? I may have to leave the hobby for a year or so. Because of my deployment..... hehehehe

UCanDoIt · 02/22/2007, 02:44 PM

Too BIG for my application... thanks anyways. I was hoping someone would import the mini-BKs.

Roland Jacques · 02/22/2007, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by REEFER714
Wanna buy my BK400ext Christine ? I may have to leave the hobby for a year or so. Because of my deployment..... hehehehe

Thanks for your service.

GOD bless you.

02/21/2007, 05:18 PM	#78
Jar*Head Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 8,630	I know what you mean. __________________ Steve Tankless. Current Tank Info: 480g peninsula

02/21/2007, 09:37 PM	#83
bernie lyons Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: mississauga,ontario,can. Posts: 670	comparison comparison I 've looked at the BK300 external skimmer (10") reaction chamber and i believe it puts out about roughly 1550 litres per hour and the bubble size was NOT smaller than the H&S designs. So if you compare it to a H&S A250 10" reaction chamber comes with two eheim 1260 pumps and puts out roughly 1600 litres per hour . How does the BK outperform the H&S ? please enlighten me . bernie lyons Hobby Experience: 12years Current Tanks: 450 gallon reef Interests: reefkeeping

02/21/2007, 10:56 PM	#87
Jar*Head Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 8,630	15A? Are you going to run all T-5 . So your AC and tank take turn to run . where are you from again? hehehehehe __________________ Steve Tankless. Current Tank Info: 480g peninsula

02/22/2007, 10:40 AM	#90
Jar*Head Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 8,630	Hello Daniel Ber, i think AP-1004 with self cleaning head is the way to go. Don't you like H&S as they are a little cheaper with better built? __________________ Steve Tankless. Current Tank Info: 480g peninsula

02/22/2007, 10:44 AM	#92
Jim_S Timo Boll Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 5,333	Actually, the Deltecs are cheaper overseas than the H&S's. He may be looking at that... not sure though.... But I'm sure that SCH will bring the $$$ amount right up... __________________ We will survive in this world of competition, shooting guns and our ammunition... Bradley Nowell Current Tank Info: We're recreating the ocean in our livings rooms. With that said, I've had some ups and downs.

02/21/2007, 05:06 PM	#77
TandN Registered Member. Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: NYC Posts: 2,009	Im not tring to prove anythin but he mentioned he wanted to knowand if I say no looks like im trying to hide something to be honest

02/21/2007, 06:52 PM	#79
mavgi Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: queens n.y Posts: 2,209	REEFER714 & tanya72806: i didn't said that someone try to hide something and maybe it's misunderstanding . i suggest to this compare to get real result i believe the BM250 perform better then BK250 maybe i am wrong but just when we put both for test we can be sure about that. IMO the best way is to put both skimmer in big sump and let them run and not as you said. hahnmeister : it's ok you can call to the BM250 dodge , camro or even scooter but meantime i didn't saw any skimmer in this size and price that can perform like this skimmer .

02/21/2007, 07:52 PM	#81
hahnmeister Moved On Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Brew City, WI Posts: 10,156	As for the dual inline skimmer idea... I wouldnt pass on the idea so quickly. There is a company that was doing research into the very idea much along the same lines of how a recirculating skimmer works, but the idea was that the ORP would be raised in the second chamber considerably more than the first one, and so both would have excellwnt skimming... just of different proteins. Actually... they were running 3 skimmers in a row to test this out. When we skim our water, were lucky if we can pull out a small percentage of whats in there, so to run two skimmers in series, although not at attractive sounding as running them in parallel, might be a good idea..

02/21/2007, 10:51 PM	#86
hahnmeister Moved On Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Brew City, WI Posts: 10,156	Oh, I know the feeling... Im in an apartment... the 48"x30"x20" tank took a little convincing... I have determined its the largest tank I can have in my place for several reasons including heat from the tank in summer, humidity, weight on the floor, and electrical usage (If I go any larger, I wont be able to run the tank lights and the TV at the same time because the whole dang living room is on one 15A circuit... dont even ask about the 12,000BTU Air Conditioner.

02/22/2007, 01:23 AM	#88
hahnmeister Moved On Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Brew City, WI Posts: 10,156	Wisconsin... so its only a couple months that get hot here... but yeah... the A/C and the tank will have to take turns. I run the A/C on a timer, then it shuts off at 3pm until 10 or 11pm... with me hoping things dont heat up too quickly (luckily, the apartment is very well insulated). Thats why this new tank will have a totally enclosed canopy with ducting that can both exit and take in air from the outside... keeping the apartment cooler and humidity free. Ill have enough 120mm fans in it too to keep everything cool too. The light mover is a large part of that plan as well... pretty much turns a 320watt HQI ballast into two for 5watts, and it provides a more natural light for the corals... its a win-win for me... prolly the only way I would manage a 120g in my place.

02/22/2007, 02:48 AM	#89
Daniel_ber Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 22	The skimmers I had in mind at first where H&S: 3x1260 and 5x1260. Deltec: 1004 and 1006. Bubble King: 400 and 500. Bubble master 2 or 3 x 300. And I could buy 3-4 BM 300 for the price of one BK 400, but for some reason I am not that fond of BM, dont know why though. Now I have made up my mind. I am 95% sure that I will go with the Deltec 1004 with the self cleaning head. Like someone said, BK is probably like a ferrari and Deltec more like Mercedes. Altough I dont like mercedes at all (I think they suck), I do believe that the information given from the manufacturers are quite accurate. A Deltec ap 1004 with the self cleaning head is rated for systems between 5400-7200 VS the BKÂ´s 1500-4000, and for that reason (among others) I chose the AP 1004. The other reason is that I am sure that both the BK and the Deltec will be more then enough for this system. In a couple of years I might upgrade to a system of about 6000-7000L. Then I will probably purchase the BK 650, and have both the AP 1004 and the BK 650 going, so I wont have any problems then either.

02/22/2007, 10:51 AM	#93
Jar*Head Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 8,630	Isn't it cost 1500 bucks for the SCH? __________________ Steve Tankless. Current Tank Info: 480g peninsula

02/22/2007, 11:25 AM	#94
mavgi Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: queens n.y Posts: 2,209	Daniel_ber what ever you buy congratulation just to let you know when you type 3 BM you mean to the BM250 which i pull with it : 35LPM about 2100 LPH (you can see the picture) . the BM300 will pull near to the BK500 if not more then that BM250 :

02/22/2007, 01:15 PM	#96
Jar*Head Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 8,630	Yeah, i saw it before. __________________ Steve Tankless. Current Tank Info: 480g peninsula

02/22/2007, 02:44 PM	#99
UCanDoIt Moved On Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bay Area CA Posts: 1,684	Too BIG for my application... thanks anyways. I was hoping someone would import the mini-BKs.