Calc additives or Kalk stirrer or Calc reactor...?

Liquid Hobby · 02/26/2007, 10:35 AM

So, my young tank is beginning to consume quantities of calcium. I've gone from chronically high calc, over 500, to now 350-380. I do weekly 15-20ish% water changes (5 fish and lots of critters in a 40).

Anyway, I'm currently dosing Kent Marine Part A and B due to it's low tech methodology. Of course, conversations at the LFS lead to $700 calc reactors and $300 kalk stirrers... which led me to pick up some calc dosing liquid for $15.

With the 2 part, I could get a dosing pump or drip set up and just pay to replenish the liquid additive. I could do a Kalk stirrer and run that... Or pony up and get a calc reactor.

Now, the question: Which method is best? A loaded questions I know. Calc reactor is out! It's too much stuff, pressurized bottles and extra space. So, it really leaves Kalk Stirrer vs. 2 part...

Which is more effective/$? (and lower maintenance...)

I do not see a tank upgrade with in the next 9-12 months, meaning I do not want to make an investment based on what might happen in the future... I just want to solve the problem as it stands today.

Thanks.

T

Liquid Hobby · 02/26/2007, 10:38 AM

almost 4got. The tanks is mostly LPS (frogspan, fire, hammer, scalymia, lobophilia, and SPS (acro, hydnophora, caps, cats paw, etc) with 1-2 softies (ricordia).

Thnx.

gregrex · 02/26/2007, 10:50 AM

I was in a similar situation and went with a Tunze Calcium Dispenser. It attaches to the auto-top off system, and uses the top off pump to stir the Kalk mixture every time it comes on. Quite clever really, and inexpensive (provided that you already own a Tunze Osmolat)

On the down side, it really didn't help a whole lot. I'm still adding two part Ca and KH. My levels are still chronically low. Hopefully, your mileage will vary.

GMAX · 02/26/2007, 10:56 AM

Well I add 30 ml a day each of two part on my 55 gallon and have a five gallon bucket of kalk made up every third day which is added by a dosing pump to my 180 gallon tank. Both methods work fine. The 55 gallon does not easily lend itself to an automated solution and I can buy the 2 gallon size of two part relatively cheap so that is what I do. Automation is nice but not all that necessary. A good dosing pump is going to set you back a good sum, a drip solution will work pretty well especially in a 40 gallon as the volume to drip is quite small.

Liquid Hobby · 02/26/2007, 05:06 PM

GMAX, so 2 part on the smaller tank and kalk on the larger tank? Same end results?

I could also add Kalk to my top off water which is actuated via an ATO from a 5G bucket. Do you have a little stirring pump on a timer in the kalk bucket?

Liquid Hobby · 02/26/2007, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gregrex
I was in a similar situation and went with a Tunze Calcium Dispenser. It attaches to the auto-top off system, and uses the top off pump to stir the Kalk mixture every time it comes on. Quite clever really, and inexpensive (provided that you already own a Tunze Osmolat)

On the down side, it really didn't help a whole lot. I'm still adding two part Ca and KH. My levels are still chronically low. Hopefully, your mileage will vary.

I have no idea what a Tunze Osmolat is...! However, if it's got Tunze in the name it will come with the associate costs. How much for the stirrer itself?

old salty · 02/26/2007, 07:25 PM

Out of all the ways I have tried to maintain parameters (2 parts, lime water, calcium reactors, etc...) water changes with high quality salt has been the easiest. My tank has been additive free for five months now and has never looked healthier.

durango_doug · 02/26/2007, 08:31 PM

I use the two part with a dosing pump. The pumps can be fairly expensive, but it's pretty much free after that if you use randy's two part. Then again, the lime is also pretty much free as long as your not buying it from an aquarium brand name. The only downside to the kalk stirrer that I can see is that it will make the water cloudy if the demand starts to get too high. That's why I switched to two part.

SDguy · 02/26/2007, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by old salty
Out of all the ways I have tried to maintain parameters (2 parts, lime water, calcium reactors, etc...) water changes with high quality salt has been the easiest. My tank has been additive free for five months now and has never looked healthier.

How could you possibly keep a 120g SPS tank growing without adding any ca/alk supplementation??

mcurl98 · 02/26/2007, 08:52 PM

A kalk reactor won't keep your CA and Alk up that much-will help with PH. I think your only options are to dose or go with a CA reactor.

old salty · 02/27/2007, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SDguy
How could you possibly keep a 120g SPS tank growing without adding any ca/alk supplementation??

(Ahem, 125 gallon!)

When switched salts, my calcium skyrocketed to over 600 in less than a week, so I removed the calcium reactor (and sold it to a fellow on this board.) It came down to about 550 and wouldn't go lower, so I stopped adding pickling lime to the topoff reservoir. It came down to where it hovers to this day (about 475 depending on when I check it.) I have an assortment of test kits, and they all read pretty close to one another.

I do simple 10% water changes every week and topoff with RO/DI water. Been doing it this way for 5 months.

Liquid Hobby · 02/27/2007, 09:16 AM

I would love to solve this requirement via water changes! However, even after a water change I'm still below 400 for calc... What I need to do is test my new salt water for it's levels, something I haven't and will now do.

Old Salty, what was the old salt and what is the new salt (I do not want to start yet another 'what salt is best thread', but I am curious)? Those are high calc number, aren't they? Early on, my calc was always very 'high' which leads me to believe the salt I'm using, Ocean Pure, has adequate initial trace elements.

Could calc addition also happen in the new salt water container? Can I just elevate the calc levels in the new salt water and then just do water changes with that high cacl level water? Or would high calc levels casue precipitation in the new water container?

GMAX · 02/27/2007, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Liquid Hobby
GMAX, so 2 part on the smaller tank and kalk on the larger tank? Same end results?

I could also add Kalk to my top off water which is actuated via an ATO from a 5G bucket. Do you have a little stirring pump on a timer in the kalk bucket?

If you dont have a stocked to the gills SPS tank with rapidly growing corals, Kalk thru topoff is a fine solution. Now water saturates with calcium hydroxide at about three TBl spoons of it per gallon and only then by adding vinegar. If you find your tank outrunning the topoff water that has the Calcium Hydroxide ( pickling lime ) in it, then you may need to supplement with a small amount of two part.

I dont think Kalk precipitates out ( except for impurities ) and certainly not very quickly. If you stir it up good upon mixture in the 5 gallon, you dont need stirring gear to get the results you want.

Your mileage may differ of course!

GMAX · 02/27/2007, 09:22 AM

Old Salty is one of the few that I have come across that claims his tank does not need Calcium and alk supplementation. I do 10% water changes biweekly religiously, and I still must supplement daily.

old salty · 02/27/2007, 10:20 AM

The salt I am now using is called Marine Environment; I found it at Premium Aquatics (awesome vendor.) I was using Tropic Marin Pro Reef (along with the Ca reactor and lime water) prior to this. I too, have no interest in a salt debate as everyone's tank and setup is different as is our approach. Use whatever suits your needs.

Liquid Hobby · 02/27/2007, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by old salty
Use whatever suits your needs.

and there in lies the challenge!

Randy Holmes-Farley · 02/27/2007, 12:46 PM

I compare different methods here:

How to Select a Calcium and Alkalinity Supplementation Scheme
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm

old salty · 02/27/2007, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Liquid Hobby
and there in lies the challenge!

You ain't kidding!!

Zach117 · 02/27/2007, 03:16 PM

If cost is your main concern a dosing pump might be the way to go. I just got a (expensive) Litermeter 3 and am using it just for kalk topoff. I have a low calcium demand so lime works fine for now and also can be used for fresh top off. If your demand is high you can still use the L3 for 2-part you just have to buy the additional pump.

Liquid Hobby · 02/27/2007, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
I compare different methods here:

How to Select a Calcium and Alkalinity Supplementation Scheme
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm

Thanks Randy!

Randy Holmes-Farley · 02/27/2007, 04:46 PM

Good luck selecting.

IMO, limewater, two parts (especially DIY) and CaCO3/CO2 reactors are all good choices with merits that vary with the setup. I use limewater.

plummike · 02/27/2007, 08:25 PM

I mix mine in a salt bucket. I let the mix settle, pump some into a doser. I top off the doser with ro and drip feed into my sump. I hold 380-420 no problem. Also do a 20%water change weekly using Reef Crystals.

02/26/2007, 10:35 AM	#1
Liquid Hobby Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 810	Calc additives or Kalk stirrer or Calc reactor...? So, my young tank is beginning to consume quantities of calcium. I've gone from chronically high calc, over 500, to now 350-380. I do weekly 15-20ish% water changes (5 fish and lots of critters in a 40). Anyway, I'm currently dosing Kent Marine Part A and B due to it's low tech methodology. Of course, conversations at the LFS lead to $700 calc reactors and $300 kalk stirrers... which led me to pick up some calc dosing liquid for $15. With the 2 part, I could get a dosing pump or drip set up and just pay to replenish the liquid additive. I could do a Kalk stirrer and run that... Or pony up and get a calc reactor. Now, the question: Which method is best? A loaded questions I know. Calc reactor is out! It's too much stuff, pressurized bottles and extra space. So, it really leaves Kalk Stirrer vs. 2 part... Which is more effective/$? (and lower maintenance...) I do not see a tank upgrade with in the next 9-12 months, meaning I do not want to make an investment based on what might happen in the future... I just want to solve the problem as it stands today. Thanks. T Last edited by Liquid Hobby; 02/26/2007 at 10:40 AM.

02/26/2007, 10:38 AM	#2
Liquid Hobby Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 810	almost 4got. The tanks is mostly LPS (frogspan, fire, hammer, scalymia, lobophilia, and SPS (acro, hydnophora, caps, cats paw, etc) with 1-2 softies (ricordia). Thnx. __________________ 120 DT/200 G mixed reef: birthed on Dec 1, 2010 * Neptune Systems controller * 40G Sump + 40G Fuge which gravity feeds into DT * Huge Reef Octopus Skimmer * Calc, GFO and Carbon RXs * 2x250W 20K Radium MH with VHO supplement * 3600 GPH closed loop with OM 4 way * 1700 GPH return

02/26/2007, 05:06 PM	#5
Liquid Hobby Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 810	GMAX, so 2 part on the smaller tank and kalk on the larger tank? Same end results? I could also add Kalk to my top off water which is actuated via an ATO from a 5G bucket. Do you have a little stirring pump on a timer in the kalk bucket? __________________ 120 DT/200 G mixed reef: birthed on Dec 1, 2010 * Neptune Systems controller * 40G Sump + 40G Fuge which gravity feeds into DT * Huge Reef Octopus Skimmer * Calc, GFO and Carbon RXs * 2x250W 20K Radium MH with VHO supplement * 3600 GPH closed loop with OM 4 way * 1700 GPH return

02/26/2007, 07:25 PM	#7
old salty Genius Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: The Island of Misfit Toys Posts: 3,131	Out of all the ways I have tried to maintain parameters (2 parts, lime water, calcium reactors, etc...) water changes with high quality salt has been the easiest. My tank has been additive free for five months now and has never looked healthier. __________________ "The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers." Thomas Jefferson Current Tank Info: Out of the marine aquarium hobby

02/26/2007, 08:52 PM	#10
mcurl98 Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: san jose, ca Posts: 615	A kalk reactor won't keep your CA and Alk up that much-will help with PH. I think your only options are to dose or go with a CA reactor. __________________ -Matt Current Tank Info: tankless

02/26/2007, 10:50 AM	#3
gregrex Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Nova Scotia, Canada Posts: 154	I was in a similar situation and went with a Tunze Calcium Dispenser. It attaches to the auto-top off system, and uses the top off pump to stir the Kalk mixture every time it comes on. Quite clever really, and inexpensive (provided that you already own a Tunze Osmolat) On the down side, it really didn't help a whole lot. I'm still adding two part Ca and KH. My levels are still chronically low. Hopefully, your mileage will vary.

02/26/2007, 10:56 AM	#4
GMAX Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: DFW Posts: 839	Well I add 30 ml a day each of two part on my 55 gallon and have a five gallon bucket of kalk made up every third day which is added by a dosing pump to my 180 gallon tank. Both methods work fine. The 55 gallon does not easily lend itself to an automated solution and I can buy the 2 gallon size of two part relatively cheap so that is what I do. Automation is nice but not all that necessary. A good dosing pump is going to set you back a good sum, a drip solution will work pretty well especially in a 40 gallon as the volume to drip is quite small.

02/26/2007, 08:31 PM	#8
durango_doug Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Missoula, Mt. Posts: 300	I use the two part with a dosing pump. The pumps can be fairly expensive, but it's pretty much free after that if you use randy's two part. Then again, the lime is also pretty much free as long as your not buying it from an aquarium brand name. The only downside to the kalk stirrer that I can see is that it will make the water cloudy if the demand starts to get too high. That's why I switched to two part.

02/27/2007, 09:16 AM	#12
Liquid Hobby Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 810	I would love to solve this requirement via water changes! However, even after a water change I'm still below 400 for calc... What I need to do is test my new salt water for it's levels, something I haven't and will now do. Old Salty, what was the old salt and what is the new salt (I do not want to start yet another 'what salt is best thread', but I am curious)? Those are high calc number, aren't they? Early on, my calc was always very 'high' which leads me to believe the salt I'm using, Ocean Pure, has adequate initial trace elements. Could calc addition also happen in the new salt water container? Can I just elevate the calc levels in the new salt water and then just do water changes with that high cacl level water? Or would high calc levels casue precipitation in the new water container? __________________ 120 DT/200 G mixed reef: birthed on Dec 1, 2010 * Neptune Systems controller * 40G Sump + 40G Fuge which gravity feeds into DT * Huge Reef Octopus Skimmer * Calc, GFO and Carbon RXs * 2x250W 20K Radium MH with VHO supplement * 3600 GPH closed loop with OM 4 way * 1700 GPH return

02/27/2007, 09:22 AM	#14
GMAX Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: DFW Posts: 839	Old Salty is one of the few that I have come across that claims his tank does not need Calcium and alk supplementation. I do 10% water changes biweekly religiously, and I still must supplement daily.

02/27/2007, 10:20 AM	#15
old salty Genius Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: The Island of Misfit Toys Posts: 3,131	The salt I am now using is called Marine Environment; I found it at Premium Aquatics (awesome vendor.) I was using Tropic Marin Pro Reef (along with the Ca reactor and lime water) prior to this. I too, have no interest in a salt debate as everyone's tank and setup is different as is our approach. Use whatever suits your needs. __________________ "The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers." Thomas Jefferson Current Tank Info: Out of the marine aquarium hobby

02/27/2007, 12:46 PM	#17
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 86,233	I compare different methods here: How to Select a Calcium and Alkalinity Supplementation Scheme http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

02/27/2007, 03:16 PM	#19
Zach117 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Dallas Posts: 319	If cost is your main concern a dosing pump might be the way to go. I just got a (expensive) Litermeter 3 and am using it just for kalk topoff. I have a low calcium demand so lime works fine for now and also can be used for fresh top off. If your demand is high you can still use the L3 for 2-part you just have to buy the additional pump.

02/27/2007, 04:46 PM	#21
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 86,233	Good luck selecting. IMO, limewater, two parts (especially DIY) and CaCO3/CO2 reactors are all good choices with merits that vary with the setup. I use limewater. __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

02/27/2007, 08:25 PM	#22
plummike Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: near Pittsburgh Posts: 271	I mix mine in a salt bucket. I let the mix settle, pump some into a doser. I top off the doser with ro and drip feed into my sump. I hold 380-420 no problem. Also do a 20%water change weekly using Reef Crystals.