Chiller setup questions

dguest98 · 03/02/2007, 05:15 PM

I havent seen much about chillers so maybe you can help.

What does the flow range mean (eg 360-700) and do you want to be on the high side or middle. If the range is up to 700 would a mag 5 or 7 be better?

Can you set up a aquacontroller to turn on the pump and chiller at the same time so the pump does not have to run all the time. Will this leave the water in the lines to get bad or is there any other solution.

Any advice or solutions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

dguest98 · 03/03/2007, 12:17 AM

Im gonna bump myself, you guys have rocked with advice and Im lost on this chiller deal, not many threads.

Navyblue · 03/03/2007, 08:39 AM

IMO it is not going to matter much in actual operation, as long as you stay in the range specified. Personally I'll aim for nearer to the upper limit.

To have the pump and chiller turned on at the same time, you just need to split the power outlet of the controller and have both your chiller and the pump hooked on to it. But I'd worry about what a frequent on/off would do to the pump.

dguest98 · 03/03/2007, 09:30 AM

will that mess up a mag7 turning it on and off? Since I got a 1/3 hp chiller will it turn on less to keep my 125 four degrees cooler.

Navyblue · 03/03/2007, 09:35 AM

Turning a pump on and off frequently will definitely shorten its lifespan, but I can't tell you by how much. Personally I'd leave the pump on. A pump of that rating don't consume much power if you compare it to lighting a reef, and the heat it puts out is negligible especially considering that you have a chiller.

BruiseAndy · 03/03/2007, 09:46 AM

Leave the pump on all the time. Mor flow the better through chiller. Leaving the pump on will extend life of chiller as well.

Jefe12234 · 03/03/2007, 10:19 AM

I've been looking into this issue recently since I will be buying a chiller this spring. The minimum flow rate is to prevent the chiller from short cycling and to prevent biofilm buildup in the chiller. Short cycling is when the chiller cycles on and off too quickly. If the chiller starts up less than 10 minutes after it shut off, then you probably are not meeting the minimum flow rate. I would guess the maximum flow rate is to avoid excessive pressure in the chiller and to avoid wasting unnecessary energy.

As for turning the pump on and off, probably not a good idea. There are more energy efficient pumps than the Mag-Drives if that's a concern. For running my chiller I'm looking at a Quiet One 3000 which uses about half as much energy as a comparable Mag-Drive.

dguest98 · 03/03/2007, 10:44 AM

Thanks for the info, So my current prime says 720 max flow so a 700 would be good? Also as long as my returns can handle it which Im sure they can I was thinking about running the return right to the tank would this be ok?

dguest98 · 03/03/2007, 10:47 AM

Looked at the quiet one and I think I will get one of them for my pump.

Navyblue · 03/03/2007, 11:10 AM

I think a 700 will be good. As you'll never actually get 700 gph due to elbows and turns.

LeeMc · 03/03/2007, 01:15 PM

If you exceed the max flow rate then the water will not cool adequately as it passes through. This will result in the compressor staying on for long periods. On the other side, if you do not meet the miniumum the unit will "overcool" the water as it flows causing it to fequently cycle as Jefe mentions. If the pump fails while the chiller is on you run the risk of icing unless the unit has a safety - not good. I suggest you plumb the unit into the output of the circ pump and use a gate (vs ball) valve to throttle the flow through the unit.

dguest98 · 03/03/2007, 01:30 PM

wont that be to little return flow for my system, I am using a mag 9.5 for my return and when it goes I.m going to replace it with a 12. I was thinking of making this kind of like a closed loop and pull the water from the sump but return it directly to the tank with a nozzle in the middle

Navyblue · 03/03/2007, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LeeMc
On the other side, if you do not meet the miniumum the unit will "overcool" the water as it flows causing it to fequently cycle as Jefe mentions.

Actually, this won't happen if he is using an external temperature controller.

Navyblue · 03/03/2007, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dguest98
wont that be to little return flow for my system, I am using a mag 9.5 for my return and when it goes I.m going to replace it with a 12. I was thinking of making this kind of like a closed loop and pull the water from the sump but return it directly to the tank with a nozzle in the middle

You can always add another return pump, if the pump with the chiller is too small for overall flow.

Personally, I don't like to plumb my chiller inline of the return as with the fittings and head it is hard to know what is the resultant flowrate. In my set up I run a close loop within my sump, the plus is I have more stable temperature in my display, the downside is if my return fail my system can be cooked

dguest98 · 03/03/2007, 02:29 PM

i will be using an aquacontroller 3 to control everything. I guess I could use one pump to return to one return and use the other pump to run through the chiller and then to the other return. This would mean that my return would always have a backup. What is the overflow capacity on the AGA 600 gph per right?

dguest98 · 03/03/2007, 02:32 PM

so when you say that you have a more stable temp in your display, would it not be the same if I ran the chiller water into the main display. I figure I might as well get some flow in the main display out of another pump rather than just sending it back to the sump.

Navyblue · 03/03/2007, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dguest98
so when you say that you have a more stable temp in your display, would it not be the same if I ran the chiller water into the main display. I figure I might as well get some flow in the main display out of another pump rather than just sending it back to the sump.

Assuming that my chiller temperature control fluctuate at +/-2 deg, if I hook it to my display, that will be the fluctuation I get in my display, may be less a little due to the inflow from the sump which counter act with the warmer water from the sump.

Where as when I run a close loop in the sump, I'd have a supposedly fluctuation of +/- 2 deg in the sump. But this cooler water will be trickled back into the display and the heat from the lighting will be used to counter the cold water from the sump, resulting in lesser fluctuation.

My chiller specification says +/- 2 deg C, on my display sometimes I get +/- 0.8 deg C, but most of the time I get +/- 0.6 deg C. I was thinking of getting some sort of temperature controller someday but I guess I don't need it.

Navyblue · 03/03/2007, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dguest98
i will be using an aquacontroller 3 to control everything. I guess I could use one pump to return to one return and use the other pump to run through the chiller and then to the other return. This would mean that my return would always have a backup. What is the overflow capacity on the AGA 600 gph per right?

To have a backup is always a good idea. But I don't know what is the overflow capacity of your tank. My suggestion will be to have a valve in each of the return, it is a good for maintenance even though you are not going to use it to throttle your flow.

LeeMc · 03/05/2007, 10:46 AM

My post was not clear (sorry). My suggstion is to divert some of the flow off the circ pump main output line using a gate valve to control the flow through the chiller, i.e., a "U". This allows you to avoid a second pump and cost (wattage) and let's you "titrate" the cooling effect in concert with your choice of controller. Although it diverts some of the flow it will not significantly affect the total flow volume of the main pump.

dguest98 · 03/05/2007, 03:03 PM

thanks for the tips, so the water coming out of the chiller will be noticably cooler, would this be terrible to pump directly into the tank as I guess it would diffuse quickly. Im thinking of when you are swimming in the ocean every once and a while you get hit with a cold blast of water.

dguest98 · 03/05/2007, 03:08 PM

Ok I am going to be using a quiet one 3000 in my sump to feed the Current USA prime tower 1/3 hp chiller. The output will flow directly back to the tank and exit via a 3/4 inch sea swirl. I figure this gives me 600 gph in my tank and the ocillation will dispurse the cooler water better. Oh yeah I will control my temp with a aquacontroller 3 that I am ordering today. Any holes in my plan?

03/02/2007, 05:15 PM	#1
dguest98 Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Pompano Beach, FL Posts: 449	Chiller setup questions I havent seen much about chillers so maybe you can help. What does the flow range mean (eg 360-700) and do you want to be on the high side or middle. If the range is up to 700 would a mag 5 or 7 be better? Can you set up a aquacontroller to turn on the pump and chiller at the same time so the pump does not have to run all the time. Will this leave the water in the lines to get bad or is there any other solution. Any advice or solutions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

03/03/2007, 09:46 AM	#6
BruiseAndy Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ogden ut Posts: 896	Leave the pump on all the time. Mor flow the better through chiller. Leaving the pump on will extend life of chiller as well. __________________ "Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Current Tank Info: 150g and 75g

03/03/2007, 10:19 AM	#7
Jefe12234 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: MN Posts: 885	I've been looking into this issue recently since I will be buying a chiller this spring. The minimum flow rate is to prevent the chiller from short cycling and to prevent biofilm buildup in the chiller. Short cycling is when the chiller cycles on and off too quickly. If the chiller starts up less than 10 minutes after it shut off, then you probably are not meeting the minimum flow rate. I would guess the maximum flow rate is to avoid excessive pressure in the chiller and to avoid wasting unnecessary energy. As for turning the pump on and off, probably not a good idea. There are more energy efficient pumps than the Mag-Drives if that's a concern. For running my chiller I'm looking at a Quiet One 3000 which uses about half as much energy as a comparable Mag-Drive. __________________ Serenity now!!!

03/03/2007, 01:15 PM	#11
LeeMc Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Seal Beach, CA Posts: 97	If you exceed the max flow rate then the water will not cool adequately as it passes through. This will result in the compressor staying on for long periods. On the other side, if you do not meet the miniumum the unit will "overcool" the water as it flows causing it to fequently cycle as Jefe mentions. If the pump fails while the chiller is on you run the risk of icing unless the unit has a safety - not good. I suggest you plumb the unit into the output of the circ pump and use a gate (vs ball) valve to throttle the flow through the unit. __________________ Lee Current Tank Info: 250g in wall

03/05/2007, 10:46 AM	#19
LeeMc Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Seal Beach, CA Posts: 97	My post was not clear (sorry). My suggstion is to divert some of the flow off the circ pump main output line using a gate valve to control the flow through the chiller, i.e., a "U". This allows you to avoid a second pump and cost (wattage) and let's you "titrate" the cooling effect in concert with your choice of controller. Although it diverts some of the flow it will not significantly affect the total flow volume of the main pump. __________________ Lee Current Tank Info: 250g in wall

03/03/2007, 12:17 AM	#2
dguest98 Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Pompano Beach, FL Posts: 449	Im gonna bump myself, you guys have rocked with advice and Im lost on this chiller deal, not many threads.

03/03/2007, 08:39 AM	#3
Navyblue Low maintenance first Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 2,790	IMO it is not going to matter much in actual operation, as long as you stay in the range specified. Personally I'll aim for nearer to the upper limit. To have the pump and chiller turned on at the same time, you just need to split the power outlet of the controller and have both your chiller and the pump hooked on to it. But I'd worry about what a frequent on/off would do to the pump.

03/03/2007, 09:30 AM	#4
dguest98 Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Pompano Beach, FL Posts: 449	will that mess up a mag7 turning it on and off? Since I got a 1/3 hp chiller will it turn on less to keep my 125 four degrees cooler.

03/03/2007, 09:35 AM	#5
Navyblue Low maintenance first Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 2,790	Turning a pump on and off frequently will definitely shorten its lifespan, but I can't tell you by how much. Personally I'd leave the pump on. A pump of that rating don't consume much power if you compare it to lighting a reef, and the heat it puts out is negligible especially considering that you have a chiller.

03/03/2007, 10:44 AM	#8
dguest98 Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Pompano Beach, FL Posts: 449	Thanks for the info, So my current prime says 720 max flow so a 700 would be good? Also as long as my returns can handle it which Im sure they can I was thinking about running the return right to the tank would this be ok?

03/03/2007, 10:47 AM	#9
dguest98 Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Pompano Beach, FL Posts: 449	Looked at the quiet one and I think I will get one of them for my pump.

03/03/2007, 11:10 AM	#10
Navyblue Low maintenance first Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 2,790	I think a 700 will be good. As you'll never actually get 700 gph due to elbows and turns.

03/03/2007, 01:30 PM	#12
dguest98 Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Pompano Beach, FL Posts: 449	wont that be to little return flow for my system, I am using a mag 9.5 for my return and when it goes I.m going to replace it with a 12. I was thinking of making this kind of like a closed loop and pull the water from the sump but return it directly to the tank with a nozzle in the middle

03/03/2007, 02:29 PM	#15
dguest98 Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Pompano Beach, FL Posts: 449	i will be using an aquacontroller 3 to control everything. I guess I could use one pump to return to one return and use the other pump to run through the chiller and then to the other return. This would mean that my return would always have a backup. What is the overflow capacity on the AGA 600 gph per right?

03/03/2007, 02:32 PM	#16
dguest98 Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Pompano Beach, FL Posts: 449	so when you say that you have a more stable temp in your display, would it not be the same if I ran the chiller water into the main display. I figure I might as well get some flow in the main display out of another pump rather than just sending it back to the sump.

03/05/2007, 03:03 PM	#20
dguest98 Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Pompano Beach, FL Posts: 449	thanks for the tips, so the water coming out of the chiller will be noticably cooler, would this be terrible to pump directly into the tank as I guess it would diffuse quickly. Im thinking of when you are swimming in the ocean every once and a while you get hit with a cold blast of water.

03/05/2007, 03:08 PM	#21
dguest98 Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Pompano Beach, FL Posts: 449	Ok I am going to be using a quiet one 3000 in my sump to feed the Current USA prime tower 1/3 hp chiller. The output will flow directly back to the tank and exit via a 3/4 inch sea swirl. I figure this gives me 600 gph in my tank and the ocillation will dispurse the cooler water better. Oh yeah I will control my temp with a aquacontroller 3 that I am ordering today. Any holes in my plan?