LR and and interesting situation

[hilu]

If this is a repeat of a thread already discussed please re-direct me... sorry, the search function was temporarily disabled.

I have a most interesting situation. Where I live (HI) the state department of agriculture does not allow for importation of live rock (due to recent invasions of alien algae), at the same time it is unlawful (aquatic resources division) to harvest live rock from the ocean. And, finally there currently no commercial aquaculture farms that produce any aquarium products including live rock. I do however have a permit to capture a limited number of reef fish.

I am surrounded by ocean, but unable to attain the necessary biological filtration to set up a reef aquarium.

The state department of aquatic resources suggested that I try to make my own live rock. I can attain the proper 'dead' rock material, that is the actual rock product from various resources, but I am not sure how to seed this rock with potential rock clinging organisms. Would it be enough to set up an aquarium with the rock material and fill it with filtered seawater from a shoreline that appears to have live rock?

To recap: I need to make my own live rock. What I have available is:
The appropriate rock
Surrounded by ocean

Any suggestions as to how I would go about doing this project.

I was not sure whether I should have posted this in the DIY or here, but given that I am still a newbie to the hobby (and this forum), I thought this would be more appropriate.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

[hmello@bermexin]

Some sand from a pristine area lagoon or something would seed your rock with the bacteria to make the rock live. As far as the critters I am not sure how you would go about this without purchasing the from the LFS.

Anyone else?

[rustybucket145]

sure, check out the DIY forum. You can get everything you need to make rock with at Home Depot. Be creative and mix in some shells to give it a natural look. Over half my tank is man-made rock and nobody can tell. It looks just like LR after it gets some coraline growing on it.

[Chrsnwk]

the ideal way for you to do this would be to locate, via a local store or club, a small quantity of genuine live rock, or as a less ideal substiture, harvest some live sand if that is allowed. Either of these will contain the microorganisms you are looking to incorporate and this in turn would be used to "seed" your artifical rock, or your manufactured rock. there are a number of sources on reefcentral and the internet with how-to's on making your own rock. givin enough time any rock in the tank will become "live" as you add coraland other inhabitants, thay will bring with them the hitch hikers you are trying to get with real live rock.

Good Luck!!

[hilu]

Thanks for the info... by law I can harvest up a two pounds of sand a year. I contacted the Waikiki aquarium this morning and they thought maybe I could have a few of their small rocks... but I still need to check with their lead marine biologist. I will try any or all options.

As for the tank, how much mechanical and or chemcial filtration should I have going on while making the live rock and how often should water changes take place... again I will search the DIY forum. Thanks again.

[mwwhite]

Aloha! and Welcome! Boy do we love HI....

That is so cool about the aquarium willing to maybe help you out.

Keep us posted!

[scrmbld33]

not sure if this helps you but reefermadness has hawaiin live rock for sale, which means someone over there is distributing it, legally, maybe if you call them they might put you in touch with them
http://www.reefermadness.us/RM-Hawaiian_cultured.htm

[Jace18]

You might want to ask if you could purchase some Dry base rock. And place it in the ocean for 6 months and then recover it. You should have some good grouth by then.

Most likely you could find some rock dreged out of a bay or port that is dry or if your luckey find a company dreging out a port or bay and see if you have the rock they remove.

[Scuba_Steve]

Hpw about this place
http://www.ipsf.com/index.html

[hilu]

Originally posted by scrmbld33
not sure if this helps you but reefermadness has hawaiin live rock for sale, which means someone over there is distributing it, legally, maybe if you call them they might put you in touch with them
http://www.reefermadness.us/RM-Hawaiian_cultured.htm

Thanks for the suggestion, however the name is deceiving... this is CA based company claiming Hawaiian Live Rock however read the shipping and you see the following:

"We do NOT ship outside of the U.S., to U.S. territories, or to Hawaii. (The state of Hawaii will not allow the importation of invertebrates, live rock or live sand.)"

[hilu]

Originally posted by scuba_steve1
Hpw about this place
http://www.ipsf.com/index.html

Another CA based compnay:

"Sorry, we do not ship outside the mainland USA or to any international destination. We do not sell wholesale, nor from the farmgate. Consultation is by appointment only; sorry, we do not give farm tours at this time."

Funny they appear to be shipping from HI but when I tried contacting to order they said read the website... "we do not ship to HI based on state laws."

[hilu]

Originally posted by Jace18
You might want to ask if you could purchase some Dry base rock. And place it in the ocean for 6 months and then recover it. You should have some good grouth by then.

Most likely you could find some rock dreged out of a bay or port that is dry or if your luckey find a company dreging out a port or bay and see if you have the rock they remove.

I called and inquired about this. Strangely enough, if something like this were done the new live rock (even though I placed it there) would fall under the same restriction as if it happened there by natural causes. In other words, the state law would prohibit me from harvesting the live rock.

I do appreciate all the suggestions... however I think I may have to go with what the state allows for:

"State law allows persons to take sand from the shoreline up to one gallon per person per day for non-commercial use only. Make sure the shoreline you're taking the sand from is not within as area where the taking of sand is prohibited, such as in a marine life conservation district, natural area reserve, or other such area. There should be a sign posted in such areas."

And, put it into a large aquarium along with some dry rock.

This should stand as a warning to any Reefers out there planning a move to HI... or maybe there is a market here for any would be aquaculture farmers looking to fill a niche. I think however you would need to expand in to captive breeding of some tropical fish and inverts.

[kismetsh]

Originally posted by hilu
Thanks for the suggestion, however the name is deceiving... this is CA based company claiming Hawaiian Live Rock however read the shipping and you see the following:

"We do NOT ship outside of the U.S., to U.S. territories, or to Hawaii. (The state of Hawaii will not allow the importation of invertebrates, live rock or live sand.)"

I think you are misunderstanding. I believe the OP was suggesting you contact Reefer Madness to see if they could put you in touch *with the company in HI* aquaculturing the rock. RM gets aquacultured rock shipped *from* HI (ie exported) but can't ship *to* HI due to state laws.

They were not suggesting you buy the rock *from* RM directly.

Hope that makes sense and good luck!

[hilu]

Originally posted by kismetsh
I think you are misunderstanding. I believe the OP was suggesting you contact Reefer Madness to see if they could put you in touch *with the company in HI* aquaculturing the rock. RM gets aquacultured rock shipped *from* HI (ie exported) but can't ship *to* HI due to state laws.

They were not suggesting you buy the rock *from* RM directly.

Hope that makes sense and good luck!

I asked the State Dept. Aquatic Resources and they informed me that Reefer Madness actually does not get there rock from HI nor do they or anyone else currently culture Live Rock in HI... so this is not rock that originates here and goes to CA to ship from there. So actuall RM does not get the rock from here.

[hilu]

Originally posted by kismetsh
I think you are misunderstanding. I believe the OP was suggesting you contact Reefer Madness to see if they could put you in touch *with the company in HI* aquaculturing the rock. RM gets aquacultured rock shipped *from* HI (ie exported) but can't ship *to* HI due to state laws.

They were not suggesting you buy the rock *from* RM directly.

Hope that makes sense and good luck!

Follow up... it is true that they get some of their live rock from Moloka'i
http://www.ore.hawaii.edu/~fishpond/.../keawanui.html

However, when I contacted the University of Hawai'i division in charge of this they told me that most of what they sell to RM is just for seeding purposes for other farms in CA and they do not produce near the amount that would be needed for retail, which is why they will not sell any on the retail market. The live rock they have is more incidental than that which they are actually do on a scale needed for true retail.

The one company here that is currently trying to culture live rock for retail is:

http://www.hawaiiaquaculture.org/

Even they said they are still in the research stage for a potential live rock production. Bottom line... no way to get live rock in the retail market here...

I do appreciate the help.

[danceswithfish]

You are a good person, I think I might harvest afew rocks for myself when no one was looking!

[Peter Eichler]

Originally posted by danceswithfish
You are a good person, I think I might harvest afew rocks for myself when no one was looking!

I hate to admit it, but I think I would do the same.

[scrmbld33]

Originally posted by Peter Eichler
I hate to admit it, but I think I would do the same.

me too, seems like he might not have a choice

[Chrsnwk]

Originally posted by scrmbld33
me too, seems like he might not have a choice

There is always a choice when deciding whether or not to break a law. This is hardly the argument of stealing food to feed one's starving children.

If live rock cannot be harvested or purchased, that is that. What you personally decide is ok for you to do is one thing, but you should never encourage somebody else to follow in your footsteps if you know what you are doing is wrong. I live near and scuba dive in the great lakes and I have seen first hand all too well what happens when a foreign species is intruduced even though there are laws in place to prevent such a thing from happening. (again) It happend with the zebra mussel, which is so rampant in some places you can't even go into the water at the beach barefoot for risk of one slicing open your foot on a shell, and it's happening again with round gobies. They are everywhere, and all the game fish that used to be here are being choked out. We've also had our share of people releasing oscars, pacu, pirannah, goldfish, and everything else you can think of into the wild that wasn't wanted as a pet anymore and I'm sure they thought they were being kind to their pet by setting it free. I think Hawaii is completely justified in wanting to keep their oceans as close to invader free as they can, and in not allowing people to pick up pieces of their precious coral reefs, even if it's a single rock.

My apologies for the somewhat off topic rant. I will now get off my soapbox.

[luke33]

IMO your best "law abiding" bet is to get alot of base rock and get your 2lbs a year of LS and let it seed itself. You could also buy some bristle worms and live brime to help the seeding of the rock and some small brittle stars. Can you buy LS online? Or no. If you can get LS you'll be fine with base rock imo. It may take 6mths to a yr to really be nice looking rock , but you will get there eventually and won't be able to tell the diff. Good luck!

[darkwolf29a]

It sounds like a great business opportunity to me!!!

Take the sand they will let you take, and start seeding a few tanks. Once that's done, start an aquarium society in HI. You can help others, and help the environment all at the same time.

[OldSchoolNewbie]

Here is an idea. Sense you are a upstanding citizen and will not poach the rock as I would and are only allowed #2 of sand, ask some friends, enemies and exwifes to also collect #2 of sand and soon you will have a good amount to qiuckly seed the "dead rock". It should increase the bacteria at a much faster pace and you will be in good shape in a shorter time frame.
Good Luck!
I would probably just resort to my outlaw instincts tho !

[kismetsh]

Originally posted by Chrsnwk
There is always a choice when deciding whether or not to break a law. This is hardly the argument of stealing food to feed one's starving children.

Very well said and I agree completely!

[AnimaliA]

In the long run, your tank will be seeded with all the little fauna and inverts you would need/want through the organisms that come in on any live rock attached to any corals you purchase. It will just take a little longer than if you had started with good LR to begin with.

Just to agree with Chrsnwk and kismetsh, it is important to respect the laws that ultimately protect the habitats we all appreciate and love so much. While they may not be ideal, their purpose is to protect the reefs and indigenous animals/plants that have evolved there.

[Scuba_Steve]

with the ls idea, you would have a hard time getting coraline correct? would you be allowed to chip a lil coraline off a rock and bring it home? prob not, but i had to ask.