Is our hobby ethical?

[Mr31415]

I have just finished watching the Blue Ocean and Planet Earth documentaries from BBC, and never realised our coral reefs are that threatened.

Now my question is - is it ethical for us to buy (non-aquacultured) marine life when they are sometimes so fragile? I mean I am pretty sure the average lifespan of a fish or coral in our aquariums are way less than in the wild. I personally had several losses - sometimes due to a predator, sometimes because the creature is difficult to get feeding, sometimes because my water parameters were not optimal for the species (read shark + nitrates + few open sandy areas on bottom of tank).

How can we justify doing what we do? I really enjoy watching all my creatures and their behaviours and have learnt a lot - but is that sufficient justification for what we are doing?

I am not interested in keeping a reef aquarium if that means the natural coral reef would be destroyed because of that.

[Peter Eichler]

It really depends on your personal ethics whether it is ethical or not

However, it would be damn tough to argue that our hobby is not destructive to the reefs and their populations. How destructive is the question... Sometimes the hobby is the scapegoat and blamed for things that it may not have caused, sometimes it probably doesn't get enough criticism.

If it's something you're really worried about there are some things you can do to lessen the damage greatly without lhaving to leave the hobby.

1.) Only buy aquacultured/maricultured corals and tank raised fish.

2.) Propagate those corals and breed those fish so there are more captive raised/grown specimens available. As of now demand outweighs availablility for aquacultured corals and most tank raised fish.

3.) Make your own rock or buy aquacultured live rock.

4.) Encourage other aquarists to do the same. Just don't get preachy about it, I can sometimes and people take it as a personal attack on thweir character.

5.) Discourage other aquarists to purchase difficult to keep specimens. That's one of the things that bothers me the most about this hobby. Too many hobbyists let their egos get involved and seek out very difficult fish, corals, and inverts just for a challenge.

6.) Give the inhabitants of your aquarium the best chance for survival so you buy less corals/fish.

7.) Don't purchase fish/corals/drygoods from stores that routinely bring is hard to keep animals and/or have poor conditions in their holding tanks.

I'm sure I missed some but that would be a good start.

[Freed]

Since I have had several losses from buying "off the reef" corals I have since switched to only buying well established and very healthy captive bred corals/frags. I then sell frags if/when my corals get too big and overgrow other corals. This way I am actually helping to save the reefs. I would rather it work this way than continue to buy from places that chop and ship from the reef. I see it as very ethical.

[DaveJ]

Originally posted by Peter Eichler
[B]It really depends on your personal ethics whether it is ethical or not

However, it would be damn tough to argue that our hobby is not destructive to the reefs and their populations. How destructive is the question... Sometimes the hobby is the scapegoat and blamed for things that it may not have caused, sometimes it probably doesn't get enough criticism.

First off.. I happen to agree with most of your approach as being some of the better choices. Its called being a responsible hobbyist.

I also agree that the question of it being ethical will be based upon ones own set of moral values and perspective. I don't see it as unethical in the slightest... but others may disagree, PITA for example.

Problem is... even aquacultured species etc are tainted. They all originated in the wild at some point. Sure its less of a drain on the wild populations to go that route, but ultimately the ethics boil down to at some point in time, something was taken out of its natural habitat and put into production for our benefit.

Collecting in the wild is no different that aquaculturing, if its done responsibly. After all, the corals you see in stores are nothing but frags from a wild colony that started to grow back almost immediately after being fragged by the collector. Provided the collector left some behind and removed it in a manner that didn't kill the colony that is....... And there is the crux of the problem. There are very few truly transparent supply chains in this industry. Walt Smith is one of them.... and I am sure there are others but they are not all like that. So aquaculture is not more or less ethical, it is the same. BUT.. it is the better alternative and much easier on wild populations.

Finally... remember that there will always be a 'pirate' element to this industry, but it is vastly improved from what it once was. Suppliers and collectors are learning that if they kill the golden goose, those eggs stop coming. As a result, collection techniques are improving and the impact on the wild colonies and populations is not nearly as bad as it once was. Its still not perfect, but it never will be.

[DaveJ]

Originally posted by Freed
Since I have had several losses from buying "off the reef" corals I have since switched to only buying well established and very healthy captive bred corals/frags. I then sell frags if/when my corals get too big and overgrow other corals. This way I am actually helping to save the reefs. I would rather it work this way than continue to buy from places that chop and ship from the reef. I see it as very ethical.

Its not more ethical... its more responsible. There is a difference.

[T Man]

Mother Nature will run her course for which we have absolutely no control over. The reefkeeper should be seen as preserving the reef, it's in our systems, that long after the natural reefs disappear, we will still be able to display these fascinating species! OF THE PAST. TinMan

[davocean]

I think as long as you're doing something that promotes a better understanding and showing the beauty/necessity and importance of our ocean and maintaining a responsible attitude we remain a possitive.
That and propagating corals/fish for other hobbiest.
Nowadays I lean towards tank bred/propagated.

[celano]

I dont know man, it kinda depends on what ethics/morals you have.
I bet you more sea life is killed in a single day because people eat at places like Red Lobster. Just imagine how many animals are taken out of the oceans on a daily basis for food.
Atleast we try and give them a chance of survival.....

Is our hobby affecting the worlds reefs? The short answer is, Yes.
The long answer is way more in depth, you could prolly write a book on it. Shoot I bet someone already has.

[Tang Salad]

Originally posted by DaveJ
but others may disagree, PITA for example.

I think maybe you meant PETA, not PITA.






Then again, maybe you didn't.

[hahnmeister]

no, I dont believe reef keeping is a very ethical hobby FWIW. We do more harm than good for the most part.

[Medaka]

It's not ethical or unethical

[Peter Eichler]

Originally posted by DaveJ
First off.. I happen to agree with most of your approach as being some of the better choices. Its called being a responsible hobbyist.

I also agree that the question of it being ethical will be based upon ones own set of moral values and perspective. I don't see it as unethical in the slightest... but others may disagree, PITA for example.

Problem is... even aquacultured species etc are tainted. They all originated in the wild at some point. Sure its less of a drain on the wild populations to go that route, but ultimately the ethics boil down to at some point in time, something was taken out of its natural habitat and put into production for our benefit.

Collecting in the wild is no different that aquaculturing, if its done responsibly. After all, the corals you see in stores are nothing but frags from a wild colony that started to grow back almost immediately after being fragged by the collector. Provided the collector left some behind and removed it in a manner that didn't kill the colony that is....... And there is the crux of the problem. There are very few truly transparent supply chains in this industry. Walt Smith is one of them.... and I am sure there are others but they are not all like that. So aquaculture is not more or less ethical, it is the same. BUT.. it is the better alternative and much easier on wild populations.

Finally... remember that there will always be a 'pirate' element to this industry, but it is vastly improved from what it once was. Suppliers and collectors are learning that if they kill the golden goose, those eggs stop coming. As a result, collection techniques are improving and the impact on the wild colonies and populations is not nearly as bad as it once was. Its still not perfect, but it never will be.

You don't have to be as hardcore as "PITA" (MMMMM, Pitas ) to realize this is a detsructive hobby. Unethical or not, not matter how much I love this hobby, we're contributing to the destruction of coral reefs. It's funny because most people here keep reef aquariums because they love the natural reefs, yet we are contributing to their demise.

Sure, even aquacultured corals had to originate in nature at some point, but the idea is that we're taking less from nature and helping to sustain our own "consumption". For that reason, collecting from the wild is absolutely different from aquaculture, even when done responsibly. I guarantee you there aren't many (if any) collectors out there fragging things from the reef. You saying aquaculture "is the better alternative and much easier on wild populations" completely disputes you saying "aquaculture is not more or less ethical'. Also I believe you are confusing aquaculture with mariculture.

The industry may be improved somewhat in their collection practices, but the shear number of hobbyists today probably outweighs better collection practices by a wide margin. Also, many places that have supplied the hobby have had no choice but to modify their practices. It wasn't because of ethics, it was because of ecomonics. The Phillipines taught some other areas a valuable lesson. If they are too greedy and aggressive with their collection, there will no longer be anything to collect. The ornamental marine fish industry is a good source of income the poor nations near coral reefs. For that very reason there will always be poor collection practices and I don't think it's as "pirate" as most would like to think.

Have you ever tried to catch a fish in a reef tank with a net? Now turn that reef tank into a natural reef in an ocean and picture yourself awkwardly flopping around in the water trying to catch a fish with a net... Not just any fish, but a fish that you know will make you money. Then consider that you're struggling to make enough money for you and your family to survive. Lastly, consider that a little bleach or cyanide could catch you many fish in the same amount of time that it took you to catch one with a net.

Even in Hawaii where you'd think the industry would be a little more aware and "ethical" people are caught using bleach and other chemical methods to catch fish. The wealth in Hawaii compared to most other areas of collection is enormous, as is the regulation of collection. However, the regulation is still pitiful and policing collection of ornamental fish is a very difficult thing to do. In other words, for every person caught using a chemical to collect, there are several that don't get caught.

Just remember, even people like Walt Smith which you claim to be more ethical are in this industry to make money. The amount of live rock alone that he ships is enormous and I have little doubt that he's taking it out faster than nature can produce it. He's also reported to be a major source of what is often called boat rock. Whether this is slander by the competition or is truth I'm not sure.

I think I already said this, but I'll say it again... This hobby is so much bigger than it once was, despite efforts to mariculture and aquaculture, I would bet our impact on the reefs is far greater than it has ever been. Also keep in mind that it wasn't until fairly recently that it was common to keep reef building corals as opposed to Euphyllia for instance.

Go diving at some of the "reefs" around the Phillipines, go diving in Hawaii now if you did so 15 years ago. It's very easy to see the impact our hobby has made on wild populations. Some studies indicate that wild populations of common fish in this hobby have been cut in half in a very short period of time. The ramifications from the impact are yet to be seen and understood. There are many other factors contributing to the destruction of coral reefs besides this hobby. Overfishing in general is a big problem and I'm not aware of this hobby directly resulting in threatening a species. But then remember that a 1 year survival rate of 50% is probably very generous when it comes to wild fish and corals, I fear that it's more like 10%. When you really sit back and think about it, it's impossible to feel good about this hobby as a whole from a conservation standpoint.

I don't want anyone to think I'm laying some guilt trip and blasting this hobby. I've been a part of it for a very long time so I'm no different from a lot of you. I do however want people to consider what I've said and be a little more responsible with their livestock and decisions to purchase livestock.

[Peter Eichler]

Originally posted by LU359TINMAN
Mother Nature will run her course for which we have absolutely no control over.

If only I could believe that was true... No, I don't think that we can destroy the planet. But we sure as hell can mess things up pretty bad for ourselves and even moreso generations to come. The human race will be extinct at some point and this planet will continue on, even if it takes thousands and thousands of years to recover from what we've done to it.

[uwiik]

Depends on how we look at it....... I do wholesale and retail of marine livestocks and equipments in Indonesia, I've dealt with many divers, fishermen etc. I've seen how they collect corals, I've seen one area that used to be full of green bubble corals, then when the divers found out about this location, they all come and harvest it all, leaving only few tiny weeny bitty bubble coral left, then few years later when one of my diver tried to survey the area again, amazingly the bubble corals have already grew and I can say in a few years it will recover to it's previous state. It's amazing how fast corals recover and grow back in nature. However I've seen how ornamental fish fishermen and consumption fish fishermen do their job, they blast everything, they destroy fish home to rock ruble to catch a group of clown triggerfish, and they spray cyanide like crazy, so I dare to say that fishermen is the one to blame. Coral diver collect the corals one by one with utmost care, while fishermen destroy everything to catch the fish, you be the judge for yourself, who destroy the reef???
You don't want to destroy the reef, do not buy Indonesia ornamental marine fish, do not eat consumption fish from Indonesia, that will help..... A LOT!!! I do not deal a lot with fish, I only have a 2000 L capacity to hold my few fishes, and most of my fishes are imported from hawaii, red sea and brazil where they collect fish according to regulation..... I hate how fishermen catch fish!!!!!

[Tang Salad]

What is 'Boat rock'?

[Peter Eichler]

Originally posted by Tang Salad
What is 'Boat rock'?

It's a term used for live rock that is shipped by boat rather than air freight. I've also heard stories of large amounts of boxes of live rock sitting in warehouses and distributors around LAX for weeks before being shipped to customers. How common this is now and how true the stories are I can't say. It's not really unethical except maybe from a business ethics point of view.

[fish like me]

global warming global warming!!! everything's gonna die.. oh no

[Frick-n-Frags]

frags are ethical

pulling boatloads of fish still is not.

[Peter Eichler]

Originally posted by Frick-n-Frags
frags are ethical

pulling boatloads of fish still is not.

Frags are just not unethical. With prices some people are charging for the Orange Radioactive Martian Eaters it's certainly would be tough to argue frags being ethical

[fish like me]

Originally posted by Frick-n-Frags
frags are ethical

pulling boatloads of fish still is not.

.

[jwildman]

I do my best to buy captive bred critters and corals .. I think you have to do the best you can and think about the future of our hobby. If things continue on their current course, will all wild captures be illegal? That would force the hobby to deal with conservation.

[Frick-n-Frags]

Originally posted by Peter Eichler
Frags are just not unethical. With prices some people are charging for the Orange Radioactive Martian Eaters it's certainly would be tough to argue frags being ethical

[I just wait out the trends. purple acros are everywhere now. next year PPE zoos and superman montis will be too.]



edit: good call, fish like me, on editing that post

[Sk8r]

If it weren't for us and the divers nobody but the scientists would care. When we set up a beautiful tank and people SEE what's down there they wince when they hear some stupid yacht owner dragged an anchor across a reef, or a tanker spilled, etc. Otherwise, out of sight, out of mind: but if somebody flashes on that beautiful image---suddenly the significance is much more. If it weren't for captive dolphins, there wouldn't be the fuss about saving them---they'd just be a casualty of the tuna nets. A throwaway. If it weren't for traveling shows, zoos and documentaries, nobody'd care about gorillas or the occasional rare butterfly: nobody'd learn to care about snakes, or sharks, or what's under the ice sheets at the poles. We're responsible for equipping the g.p. with imagination, if they happened to be born without it. And WE have to care in order to do that.

[omni2226]

Ethical? We are talking about rocks and animals not refugees from the middle east wars.

The amount of so called damage done by this hobby is piddling in comparison to what commercial fishing does.
And once you factor in earthquakes,hurricanes and tsunamis the damage we do in comparison becomes a joke.

If it I ever see a PITA person blocking my access to a LFS I will run em over with my SUV and cover them up with a I belong to"People Eat Tasty Animals" t-shirt.

[jefathome]

I wouldn't say that our lifespans are neccesarily shorter than in the wild. At least we don't have sharks, barracuda, big-old groupers, large snappers, and that sort of stuff trying to EAT our fish.

Not that this has any bearing on the ethical (or un) merits of this hobby. Just something to take into consideration.

I still try to get as much Aqua-cultured stuff as possible though.
The only place where I have trouble is with my love of Scolymia. Those are not being farmed as far as I know.