arent nurse sharks illegal to keep in captivity?

[tkeracer619]

Looks like the shark is going to be spending some more time in his 125.......


While your at it, why not report them all. I suppose ebay should take all its marine life offline.... for violation of its olicies. You can sell toast with the virgin mary but not a shark thats in too small of a tank.............. i'm pretty sure releasing the shark is actually illegal where as finding it a new home via ebay sounded like a good plan. Maybe he should just flush it.


SDguy how right you are.


I own the second PAGE!

[davidryder]

Originally posted by tkeracer619
Looks like the shark is going to be spending some more time in his 125.......


While your at it, why not report them all. I suppose ebay should take all its marine life offline.... for violation of its olicies. You can sell toast with the virgin mary but not a shark thats in too small of a tank.............. i'm pretty sure releasing the shark is actually illegal where as finding it a new home via ebay sounded like a good plan. Maybe he should just flush it.


SDguy how right you are.


I own the second PAGE!

Finding a good home for it sounds like a better plan to me. The guy sounds like an irresponsible caregiver. He bought a nurse shark or maybe even an egg because it was really awesome. Now it's 14" and he's trying to lazily get rid of it on eBay. There are many other ways to find a good home for the shark.

As far as getting rid of all marine life... that's just absurd. It's much simpler to care for a coral or fish than it is a gigantic shark! Nice comparison with the toast and the virgin mary, though... considering the toast isn't alive or in need of any care.

[tkeracer619]

Ok guy sounds like an irresponsible caregiver. What makes you think he is going to try harder than ebay to find it a new home.

My comparison for the toast was for humor, not yours, but mine.

and i still think its

[davidryder]

Originally posted by tkeracer619
Ok guy sounds like an irresponsible caregiver. What makes you think he is going to try harder than ebay to find it a new home.


My comparison for the toast was for humor, not yours, but mine.

and i still think its

I have enjoyed your humor sir, thank you

He may not try hard to find a better home, but eBay would be acting like a gateway to irresponsible behavior by allowing it.

I may not have reported the guy, but maybe sent him a message informing him of better ways to get rid of the shark. Then reported him if he didn't remove the auction - if it hadn't already ended.

[tangyreefer05]

I think reporting him was a good idea, you can't just get away with selling live stock on ebay, who knows who would of picked up that shark. Lets say he sold it and made money, he might want to do it again. The guy needs to go about selling his shark in a better way. Yeah it sucks the shark may be in that tank for a little longer but he should be able to sell it to some one if he lives in a populated area. Not to many people have tanks that big.

[gerwen]

Originally posted by tkeracer619
Looks like the shark is going to be spending some more time in his 125.......


While your at it, why not report them all. I suppose ebay should take all its marine life offline.... for violation of its olicies. You can sell toast with the virgin mary but not a shark thats in too small of a tank..............

I believe this is called a straw man argument. He's not advocating banning all marine trade on ebay, only sharks. Not the same thing.

Originally posted by tkeracer619

i'm pretty sure releasing the shark is actually illegal where as finding it a new home via ebay sounded like a good plan.

Really? You honestly think offering it up on ebay is a responsible way to ensure that your shark is going to an appropriate home?
I think it's just a lazy way to get rid of a problem while recouping some of the losses.

There are more responsible ways to do what he was trying to do. But they'd involve more work than typing a description.

[dbrann11]

I would bet that by default ebay considers sharks as tropical fish unless someone complains. Ebay only really pulls down auctions if they are brought to their attention through a report, attention in the media, or blatent fraudulent bidding. You absolutely can buy and sell tropical fish on ebay as was already documented. We have this odd societal behavior where only things that are furry or cute are considered "animals" and should be protected. Anything else is only given attention when it is endangered, a threat to an environment, or dangerous.

[jimwat]

Originally posted by Michelle L
No, you cannot. They are listed as prohibited items.

OK, who's going to break it to the snails, crabs, and anemone that I purchased off of ebay that they are not "live" animals??

[davidryder]

Originally posted by jimwat
OK, who's going to break it to the snails, crabs, and anemone that I purchased off of ebay that they are not "live" animals??

I will, but they won't understand.

[JokerGirl]

My LFS has a baby shark right now that hatched out of an egg case. It's maybe 8" long at best right now, but my LFS is being responsible. They WILL NOT let that shark to go to anyone with anything less than a 1000g tank. It's a banded bamboo shark. Beautiful creature, but a nurse shark is just sad.

[jimwat]

Originally posted by davidryder
I will, but they won't understand.

Ok, but be gentle. I'm afraid that the crabs may not take it well.

[dbrann11]

Mine wouldn't understand... the crabs eat algae wafers while lying on their backs... i think they are special.

[sharklover]

I haven't combed over the official ebay rules but if it's legal to sell live tropical fish on their site then it is perfectly legal to sell a nurse shark (as long as no laws were broken in its acquisition). The nurse shark is a fish. It is also a tropical one. People may have some difficulty in accepting the fact that sharks are fish, but then their beef should be with the scientific community who classifies animals and plants. As far as the seller not being responsible in trying to sell the shark who can say. None of us know who might have bid on it. Ultimately, the seller may have turned down bidders with unacceptable tanks or experience. It would not be right to pre-judge what might have happened
if the sale were completed. Someone may have actually had the aquarium necessary to care for this shark. As far as getting rid of the shark in a non-lazy manner I'd like to know what that means exactly. Have you ever tried to unload a nurse shark? It's not very easy. Most public aquariums wont take them because they have plenty already. Selling/giving it to a pet store isn't always a sure thing either. Ebay provides an avenue to reach a much larger pool of prospective takers. You never know when some shark keeper may be looking at the auctions and take an interest.
If I were a bigger fan of nurse sharks or knew of anyone capable of housing it I would have considered taking the shark of his hands.

[Reefinator]

Originally posted by sharklover
I haven't combed over the official ebay rules but if it's legal to sell live tropical fish on their site then it is perfectly legal to sell a nurse shark (as long as no laws were broken in its acquisition). The nurse shark is a fish. It is also a tropical one. People may have some difficulty in accepting the fact that sharks are fish, but then their beef should be with the scientific community who classifies animals and plants. As far as the seller not being responsible in trying to sell the shark who can say. None of us know who might have bid on it. Ultimately, the seller may have turned down bidders with unacceptable tanks or experience. It would not be right to pre-judge what might have happened
if the sale were completed. Someone may have actually had the aquarium necessary to care for this shark. As far as getting rid of the shark in a non-lazy manner I'd like to know what that means exactly. Have you ever tried to unload a nurse shark? It's not very easy. Most public aquariums wont take them because they have plenty already. Selling/giving it to a pet store isn't always a sure thing either. Ebay provides an avenue to reach a much larger pool of prospective takers. You never know when some shark keeper may be looking at the auctions and take an interest.
If I were a bigger fan of nurse sharks or knew of anyone capable of housing it I would have considered taking the shark of his hands.

well said, unfortunately certain members here are whiney taddle tales who cant mind their own business

[tkeracer619]

Originally posted by gerwen

I believe this is called a straw man argument. He's not advocating banning all marine trade on ebay, only sharks. Not the same thing.



Really? You honestly think offering it up on ebay is a responsible way to ensure that your shark is going to an appropriate home?
I think it's just a lazy way to get rid of a problem while recouping some of the losses.

There are more responsible ways to do what he was trying to do. But they'd involve more work than typing a description. [/B]

Fish are on ebay all day long, shipped all day long.

What is a more responisible way about it? Craigs list?

Yes I honestly think putting a shark you have no more room for on ebay is more responsible than leaving it in too small of a tank.

[returnofsid]

Ummm, it would seem that some on here are a bit ignorant to eBay rules. It is NOT against eBay's rules to sell live animals. The selling of live animals is perfectly within the eBay rules...as long as it's done following certain guidelines.

Also, for those who said getting his ad pulled is a good thing....shame on you. This isn't a LFS selling animals it has no business selling. If that were the case, allowing an animal die in their tank may keep them from continuing to catch those animals out of the wild. Might help conserve nature. However, this guy wasn't selling quantities of this animal. He was doing the mature and responsible thing by selling an animal that he realized he couldn't care for. Let's all try and think of all the results before jumping to rash decisions please.

[davidryder]

Originally posted by returnofsid
Ummm, it would seem that some on here are a bit ignorant to eBay rules. It is NOT against eBay's rules to sell live animals. The selling of live animals is perfectly within the eBay rules...as long as it's done following certain guidelines.

Also, for those who said getting his ad pulled is a good thing....shame on you. This isn't a LFS selling animals it has no business selling. If that were the case, allowing an animal die in their tank may keep them from continuing to catch those animals out of the wild. Might help conserve nature. However, this guy wasn't selling quantities of this animal. He was doing the mature and responsible thing by selling an animal that he realized he couldn't care for. Let's all try and think of all the results before jumping to rash decisions please.

So in other words eBay should allow the potential haphazard handling of a shark in their auctions?? I understand that he MAY have been responsibly finding a new home for the shark. And I also understand that someone responsible MAY have purchased the shark. But you have to understand that you eBay DOES NOT allow the listing of live animals:

"eBay generally does not allow the listing of live animals or pets on eBay. In restricted cases, some stuffed birds and the pelts and skins of some animals are permitted. Sellers who wish to list these items should review the specific rules in the “Some Examples� section below to ensure their listings comply with eBay policy. We also encourage members to educate themselves on the laws governing the regulation of the sale of animals found in the additional information section."

Their policy on Fish:

"Live Animals: Other than the exceptions noted here, eBay does not allow sales of live animals or pets on eBay. eBay allows sales of tropical fish and domestic (i.e. not exotic) aquatic snails, provided the seller has the proper Federal (APHIS PPQ) - see Form 526 info below) and/or State permit(s) that allows for movement across State lines (and/or for importation into the U. S.), and provided that the seller guarantees in the listing that the animals will be packaged safely, and shipped via next day delivery.

Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service allows five species of snails to be imported and sold as escargot: Cantareus apertus (Helix aperta), Cryptomphalus aspersus (Helix aspersa), Eobania vermiculata (Otala vermiculata), Helix pomatia, and Otala lactea; and requires their importation to take place through John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York where identifiers will confirm the identity of live snails."

You have to understand form a legal and ethical standpoint eBay cannot participate in the trading of live animals. Every auction isn't reviewed before submission, that's the only reason that shark even made it there.

eBay even elaborates on the policy:

"Why does eBay have this policy?

eBay urges its sellers and buyers to comply with all governmental laws and regulations. Since the sale of live animals and wildlife products is in some cases prohibited, highly regulated, or may cause harm to eBay or its members, sellers are restricted in their listing of them on eBay."

[sharklover]

I don't follow here. If ebay allows the sale of tropical fish then there is no legal problem selling the nurse shark. I did not see it mentioned that sharks were not allowed. Also, if ebay doesn't allow the sale of live animals or pets, why do they have so many categories and sub-categories listing them? If you go to the home page and click on HOME & GARDEN you'll come to a page with multiple categories. On that page you'll find a link to PET SUPPLIES. Click on that and you'll find other categories under Fish, Turtles and Frogs. Under that column you'll see Live Tropical Fish. So if it is against ebay rules to sell live tropical fish then somebody there made a major blunder as they have obviously provided a sub-category for it.

[HolyScoly]

putting a shark in a 125 is like u living in a porto potty how would u guys like 2 live in a porto potty its just cruel thats like the dumb
person in one of my lfs telling a customer thats its ok 2 keep a naso tang thats 5 inches long in a standard 75 g tank or any naso eventually its going 2 grow then what.

[Zestay]

Originally posted by scuba_steve1
Live Animals: Other than the exceptions noted here, eBay does not allow sales of live animals or pets on eBay. eBay allows sales of tropical fish and domestic (i.e. not exotic) aquatic snails, provided the seller has the proper Federal (APHIS PPQ) - see Form 526 info below) and/or State permit(s) that allows for movement across State lines (and/or for importation into the U. S.), and provided that the seller guarantees in the listing that the animals will be packaged safely, and shipped via next day delivery.

[returnofsid]

Okay, so several people have listed the actual eBay regulations in regards to selling tropical fish. I think we could all agree that a shark could fall under the category of tropical fish...Especially since Goldfish are sold on eBay and are NOT tropical fish. On to other requirements...Licensing and shipping requirements. According to the auction I saw, it was being shipped next day...as per eBay regulations. Next requirement...Licensing. Hmmm...we don't know, do we? Nope, because so many felt it was their "right" to get this person's auction pulled. For all we know, this person was following the licensing requirements as well as ALL of the other eBay rules for selling live fish.

So many have sat at their keyboards blasting this guy for having a shark in such a small environment. I agree...however, we need to keep in mind that this was a juvenile shark. We've all seen sharks in aquariums at our local fish stores. Have we raised a ruckus with the owners of said fish stores? I'd hope so.

It's our responsibility as ethical reef keepers to educate the public as well as each other. Would it have been possible to email this seller and offer some advice on rewording his add, or to enable him with the information he needed to make an informed decision about whom to sell this creature to? I know that if I sell a live fish on eBay and then find out that the buyer doesn't even have a fish tank, I have the right...AND obligation to refuse that buyer. Maybe educating this particular seller would have enabled something to that effect....Maybe not. Now we'll never know.

[sharklover]

As far as permits go, each state, county and city usually has its own regs in reference to live animals. Here in California the state does not require a person to have a permit in order to import live ornamental marine fish. As long as the fish is not on the restricted/detrimental list (of which the nurse shark is not) then you can legally bring it in to the state without any permit. I would assume this is the case with most states as these fish are commonly sold and shipped to buyers throughout the country. Arizona and Hawaii would be the only states I could think of that would not allow a nurse shark to be brought in.

[jimwat]

Great news! Now that the shark is "saved" there 500+ listings for tropical fish and another 900+ for live coral that we should look at. And when we are done with that, we can start on craiglist!!


















You go on ahead...I'll be right behind you

[davidryder]

Originally posted by jimwat


You go on ahead...I'll be right behind you

You liar

Actually the more searching I did the more contradictory their policies were. A TON of the rules conflicted one another, and I'm not just talking about live animals. Hazardous material was supposed to follow the USPS guideline but their guidelines were contradictory to to some of eBays guidelines.

I think when it comes down to it eBay lists all those guidelines to cover their behinds legally. As far as licensing, who cares? The only thing I care about is that he has less of a chance to sell it to some moron who doesn't know the first thing about sharks. I'm sure there are other places he can do that, but it's one less place. The fact is the shark should probably be euthanized...

[jimwat]

Hey, I found out yesterday that you can order prostitutes on craiglist!!

(no I wasn't looking, I heard it on Dr. Phil...Seriously)