Large Tank Resouce Questions

rreddick · 01/04/2007, 03:08 PM

Hi All,
We are building a new addiiton to our home and I have gotten the other half to agree to a very large system, depending on estimated cost. I think I can handle with the forums help the lighting, filtration, water movement issues ok. The questions and needed resources are around the actual fabrication of the tank and sump system.

What I am thinking is as follows:

Display Tank on main floor with concrete foundation under tank area and concrete slap
dimensions 20' long, 5' depth, by 8' height. (5000 gals) . This will take up one complete wall of the addition (media room) with new master suite on second floor.

In the basement fish room below tank- 500G cement box sump lined with pond liner.
Also have room above the tank (room hieght is 12" ceilings and want to be able to have a working platform to feed from, also to get into the tank for maint, etc.

I have no idea around glass options, framing, etc. Also ventalation issues for the tank area itself as I can have about 3 feet of space behind the tank Our architect has no clue on what is needed, and all of the specs need to go on the plans for approval. So help needed from anyone that has done this, or direction on whom to speak with on this. My total budget granted to me by the powers to be for this is $30K, and this needs to cover the tank, plumbing, skimmers, lighting etc. is it enough or am I dreaming that it can be done for that. My 180G ran close to $7K all said and done but I am hoping that it is not a straight line scale in costs.

I was also thinking to use shotcrete for the main formations and then add real LR onto that foundation? This is a once in a lifetime thing, and if I can pull it off it would be awsome.

Thanks
Ron

Bebo77 · 01/04/2007, 03:13 PM

lol.. you are dreaming if you think 30K will cover a tank that size.. it wont even cover the price of the tank as 20' acrylic has to be custom made....

if i were you with a budget of 30K for everything i would go 500-600 gallon display+ equipment...

invincible569 · 01/04/2007, 03:20 PM

Whats the reason for going so big?

reefboy1 · 01/04/2007, 03:22 PM

I agree with Gabriel. If you have a budget of $30k, I'd go with a smaller custom tank (400-500gal) and which should leave you with some money left over to stock.

I spent all of my budget on building my 375gal and didn't have enough left over to stock it (big mistake).

Good luck with it.

rreddick · 01/04/2007, 03:23 PM

Would a 2 Piece glass panel be less expensive? As this is new consturction I can do the side walls and back in coated concrete and have the glass craned in during the construction.

Ron

rreddick · 01/04/2007, 03:27 PM

The thinking was to make the back wall all aquarium. I guess I could scale it down or wait for bonus time in 5 months. The room is dimensions are 25' x 35' with the projection wall on the oppisite end from the tank location. As the building time frame here on the cape once I get plans approved will be about 5 months, that gives me around 8 months to save the core money. Would 60 or 70 then be even realistic. We just think that the full wall would be very interesting and as this is the house I will die in want not go for it.

Ron

mflamb · 01/04/2007, 03:33 PM

In all reality, 30K will get you a good 600 gallon reef. Cost is not linear with size.

rreddick · 01/04/2007, 03:37 PM

One other note, I see the Steve Weast built his 850G for 20K. So am I correct that my main cost factor here is the glass or acrylc for the tank?

Ron

Bebo77 · 01/04/2007, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rreddick
One other note, I see the Steve Weast built his 850G for 20K. So am I correct that my main cost factor here is the glass or acrylc for the tank?

Ron

lol not all of the tank.. or maybe JUST the tank... a 10x2x2 tank is around $8000 alone

rreddick · 01/04/2007, 03:44 PM

reefboy and mflamb,
In the 50 to 800 G range what are optimal dimensions? I would like to get good coverage on the wall, but do like the way Steve's tank looks with that depth. One other thing to consider, I am not taking the framing, concrete costs into the 30K as this is alreaady caluclated into the cost of the addition it self.

Ron

rreddick · 01/04/2007, 03:46 PM

Hi Gabriel,
Intersting, that was the number he gave on his website on the cost for his 850 system.

Ron

Bebo77 · 01/04/2007, 03:50 PM

his protein skimmer costs $5000 reactor and he has a deltec Ca reactor Deltecc Kalk reactor and a Deltec phosphate reactor... that $10,000 in equipment...

ask James at http://www.envisionacrylics.com/ he is the one that made Steve's tank about costs for building a tank

rreddick · 01/04/2007, 03:51 PM

Gabriel,
Man the costs jump up, as my 180G which is 6x2x2 was less then a grand, I cannot understand how 4 more feet in length would multiply the cost by 8 times.

I may have to rethink this concept, that is why I am asking questions now, do not want to get in to far and then find out I cannot complete due to lack of nickles

Ron

rreddick · 01/04/2007, 03:54 PM

Bebo,
Thanks for the link, will get some cost estimates from him. I figured my biggest cost items where going to be
Skimmer
Lights
rock

Thought the tank would be the least of my worries
man was I wrong
Ron

Bebo77 · 01/04/2007, 03:55 PM

oh yeah.. once you go passed 10' the acrylic has to be custom made now you are talking $30,000 just for acrylic alone...

a really nice tank 10' x 4' x 3'... thats would rock....

Bebo77 · 01/04/2007, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rreddick
Bebo,
Thanks for the link, will get some cost estimates from him. I figured my biggest cost items where going to be
Skimmer
Lights
rock

Thought the tank would be the least of my worries
man was I wrong
Ron

ya man... james made my tank.... awesome guy.. no one knows acrylic better than he does...

rreddick · 01/04/2007, 04:00 PM

So Bebo,
Thats 3' water depth and 4' front to Back?
What hieght from the floor would you suggest? 10' centered on that wall would look very nice. Also cuts down on the floor loading a bit, could then just go with engineered 2x12 on 12" centers between the concrete peir walls.

Ron

rreddick · 01/04/2007, 04:03 PM

Also Bebo,
I know Siler lake, we used to leave in Corona del Mar, my wife grew up near barstow

Ron

Bebo77 · 01/04/2007, 04:07 PM

yeah.. you really dont want to go deeper than 3' deep as you would have to run nothing less than 1000 watt Mh's...

and at 4' deep or even @ Steve's 7.5' you can get some real nice aquascaping in....

Bebo77 · 01/04/2007, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rreddick
Also Bebo,
I know Siler lake, we used to leave in Corona del Mar, my wife grew up near barstow

Ron

yeah man... gotta love SoCal... sun, beaches, snow,women.. ahhh its beautiful out here....

rreddick · 01/04/2007, 04:12 PM

I know, but transfered out here from England, we thought we would get to go back to our house in SoCal, but no, have me running operations in both Europe and North America and Boston locaiton splits the dif, but at least we have the ocean, women, not the same look, and then there is the snow. My biggest fear after I setup my 180 was power outages, now have a 15kW natural gas gen tied into the main breaker box. LOL, and I used to worry about earth quakes
Ron

rreddick · 01/04/2007, 04:58 PM

Note to all who have helped, thanks.
Just sent off to James to get a quote on the 10 x 4 x 3 as suggested.

Also a new question, for the 3 foot depth, I have 6 - 400W 10K MH pendants from one of our plants that we shut down. Will that wattage work for that depth?

Ron

viggen · 01/04/2007, 05:49 PM

A friend of mine does aquarium installation & I am sure he would be willing to give you info as well, he works with a few aquarium manufacturers. We rescently went to Philly to install a 10x5x3 shark tank & even though I had nothing to do with the $$$ side of things I beleive under $20K is what it cost for the tank, stand, installation, filters, chiller, lights etc. However it was not setup for reef & also did not use a big expensive skimmer.

If you are worried that a 10x4x3 tank isn't enough you could always do 2 of them

Mr.Biggs · 01/04/2007, 06:01 PM

If you are really serious about your original tank size I think you can get a lot closer then some have stated.

Do to cost the main thing is are you going to DIY or buy equipment retail.

The man you really need to talk to has "MOVED ON" (been band) from this sight.

22,000 gal tank

The pic's are missing but it still has some good info in it.

the tank is concrete and has 2 10' panels instead of the one 20' cost of 2600 each instead of 30K (See last page before thread was shut down)

rreddick · 01/05/2007, 08:21 AM

Biggs,
Thanks for the info, will check out the trhead. and Viggen, I am not opposed to DIY, have done a fair bit of my own work here on the house, and build furniture to relax. Steel work is not a problem, can mig and tig weld. Also currently have built my own Calc reactor and Phos reactors. My first attempt at acrylic work was for my sump, the joints are a bit rough but I have gotten better with it. Some alot I think I can handle. And the used MH's I have will help in already reducing some of the costs.

I have also been checking out some of the other big build threads to get ideas on ventalation, lighting hoods and different ways people have automated and plumped the work rooms. There is some fantastic work out there by alot of people to get insperation from and I think this is doable. Just need to get a rough handle on the costs. I like the idea of maybe a concrete tank with the glass panels. Need to investigate how he bedded them and what the frame is constructed of. Do not want to have any metal come into contact with SW, just a corrision failure wating to happen.

So thanks everyone for the help, getting some good ideas, and some helpful advice that the dream tank may be possible. Have already gotten the better half to accept the running costs that this will incure on a monthly basis, now to get the realistic dollars for the actual build.

Ron

01/04/2007, 03:08 PM	#1
rreddick Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Brewster, MA Posts: 224	Large Tank Resouce Questions Hi All, We are building a new addiiton to our home and I have gotten the other half to agree to a very large system, depending on estimated cost. I think I can handle with the forums help the lighting, filtration, water movement issues ok. The questions and needed resources are around the actual fabrication of the tank and sump system. What I am thinking is as follows: Display Tank on main floor with concrete foundation under tank area and concrete slap dimensions 20' long, 5' depth, by 8' height. (5000 gals) . This will take up one complete wall of the addition (media room) with new master suite on second floor. In the basement fish room below tank- 500G cement box sump lined with pond liner. Also have room above the tank (room hieght is 12" ceilings and want to be able to have a working platform to feed from, also to get into the tank for maint, etc. I have no idea around glass options, framing, etc. Also ventalation issues for the tank area itself as I can have about 3 feet of space behind the tank Our architect has no clue on what is needed, and all of the specs need to go on the plans for approval. So help needed from anyone that has done this, or direction on whom to speak with on this. My total budget granted to me by the powers to be for this is $30K, and this needs to cover the tank, plumbing, skimmers, lighting etc. is it enough or am I dreaming that it can be done for that. My 180G ran close to $7K all said and done but I am hoping that it is not a straight line scale in costs. I was also thinking to use shotcrete for the main formations and then add real LR onto that foundation? This is a once in a lifetime thing, and if I can pull it off it would be awsome. Thanks Ron

01/04/2007, 03:13 PM	#2
Bebo77 Premium Nonpaying Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Lost Posts: 14,377	lol.. you are dreaming if you think 30K will cover a tank that size.. it wont even cover the price of the tank as 20' acrylic has to be custom made.... if i were you with a budget of 30K for everything i would go 500-600 gallon display+ equipment... __________________ Gabriel Current Tank Info: 300 Gal Envision Tank(98Lx30Wx26T) 120 Gal SoCalCreations Sump, Deltec TC2560, 2 LumenarcsMini 1 Reg on a light mover W Radiums 250& 400, Gallaxy ballasts, Red Dragon 10m3 return W/ 2 WavySeas, 2 6155 Tunze streams

01/04/2007, 03:22 PM	#4
reefboy1 Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Ramon, CA Posts: 708	I agree with Gabriel. If you have a budget of $30k, I'd go with a smaller custom tank (400-500gal) and which should leave you with some money left over to stock. I spent all of my budget on building my 375gal and didn't have enough left over to stock it (big mistake). Good luck with it. __________________ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary and those who don't. Current Tank Info: 215gal display. H&S Skimmer. 375gal Flatback Hex - Grotech 300 skimmer, Schuran JetStream 1 CR, Tunze Wavebox & Stream 6200 x2, 6 ROIII 250MH

01/04/2007, 03:33 PM	#7
mflamb Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Pasadena, Texas Posts: 8,422	In all reality, 30K will get you a good 600 gallon reef. Cost is not linear with size. __________________ Click on my red house to see my 390 and 300 build thread. Those are my last 2 tanks in Tampa. Now in Pasadena waiting to buy a house to set up my next tank....anemones and clowns...probably a 3x3 150 gallon.

01/04/2007, 03:50 PM	#12
Bebo77 Premium Nonpaying Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Lost Posts: 14,377	his protein skimmer costs $5000 reactor and he has a deltec Ca reactor Deltecc Kalk reactor and a Deltec phosphate reactor... that $10,000 in equipment... ask James at http://www.envisionacrylics.com/ he is the one that made Steve's tank about costs for building a tank __________________ Gabriel Current Tank Info: 300 Gal Envision Tank(98Lx30Wx26T) 120 Gal SoCalCreations Sump, Deltec TC2560, 2 LumenarcsMini 1 Reg on a light mover W Radiums 250& 400, Gallaxy ballasts, Red Dragon 10m3 return W/ 2 WavySeas, 2 6155 Tunze streams

01/04/2007, 03:20 PM	#3
invincible569 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5,715	Whats the reason for going so big?

01/04/2007, 03:23 PM	#5
rreddick Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Brewster, MA Posts: 224	Would a 2 Piece glass panel be less expensive? As this is new consturction I can do the side walls and back in coated concrete and have the glass craned in during the construction. Ron

01/04/2007, 03:27 PM	#6
rreddick Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Brewster, MA Posts: 224	The thinking was to make the back wall all aquarium. I guess I could scale it down or wait for bonus time in 5 months. The room is dimensions are 25' x 35' with the projection wall on the oppisite end from the tank location. As the building time frame here on the cape once I get plans approved will be about 5 months, that gives me around 8 months to save the core money. Would 60 or 70 then be even realistic. We just think that the full wall would be very interesting and as this is the house I will die in want not go for it. Ron

01/04/2007, 03:37 PM	#8
rreddick Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Brewster, MA Posts: 224	One other note, I see the Steve Weast built his 850G for 20K. So am I correct that my main cost factor here is the glass or acrylc for the tank? Ron

01/04/2007, 03:44 PM	#10
rreddick Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Brewster, MA Posts: 224	reefboy and mflamb, In the 50 to 800 G range what are optimal dimensions? I would like to get good coverage on the wall, but do like the way Steve's tank looks with that depth. One other thing to consider, I am not taking the framing, concrete costs into the 30K as this is alreaady caluclated into the cost of the addition it self. Ron

01/04/2007, 03:46 PM	#11
rreddick Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Brewster, MA Posts: 224	Hi Gabriel, Intersting, that was the number he gave on his website on the cost for his 850 system. Ron

01/04/2007, 03:51 PM	#13
rreddick Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Brewster, MA Posts: 224	Gabriel, Man the costs jump up, as my 180G which is 6x2x2 was less then a grand, I cannot understand how 4 more feet in length would multiply the cost by 8 times. I may have to rethink this concept, that is why I am asking questions now, do not want to get in to far and then find out I cannot complete due to lack of nickles Ron

01/04/2007, 03:54 PM	#14
rreddick Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Brewster, MA Posts: 224	Bebo, Thanks for the link, will get some cost estimates from him. I figured my biggest cost items where going to be Skimmer Lights rock Thought the tank would be the least of my worries man was I wrong Ron

01/04/2007, 03:55 PM	#15
Bebo77 Premium Nonpaying Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Lost Posts: 14,377	oh yeah.. once you go passed 10' the acrylic has to be custom made now you are talking $30,000 just for acrylic alone... a really nice tank 10' x 4' x 3'... thats would rock.... __________________ Gabriel Current Tank Info: 300 Gal Envision Tank(98Lx30Wx26T) 120 Gal SoCalCreations Sump, Deltec TC2560, 2 LumenarcsMini 1 Reg on a light mover W Radiums 250& 400, Gallaxy ballasts, Red Dragon 10m3 return W/ 2 WavySeas, 2 6155 Tunze streams

01/04/2007, 04:00 PM	#17
rreddick Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Brewster, MA Posts: 224	So Bebo, Thats 3' water depth and 4' front to Back? What hieght from the floor would you suggest? 10' centered on that wall would look very nice. Also cuts down on the floor loading a bit, could then just go with engineered 2x12 on 12" centers between the concrete peir walls. Ron

01/04/2007, 04:03 PM	#18
rreddick Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Brewster, MA Posts: 224	Also Bebo, I know Siler lake, we used to leave in Corona del Mar, my wife grew up near barstow Ron

01/04/2007, 04:07 PM	#19
Bebo77 Premium Nonpaying Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Lost Posts: 14,377	yeah.. you really dont want to go deeper than 3' deep as you would have to run nothing less than 1000 watt Mh's... and at 4' deep or even @ Steve's 7.5' you can get some real nice aquascaping in.... __________________ Gabriel Current Tank Info: 300 Gal Envision Tank(98Lx30Wx26T) 120 Gal SoCalCreations Sump, Deltec TC2560, 2 LumenarcsMini 1 Reg on a light mover W Radiums 250& 400, Gallaxy ballasts, Red Dragon 10m3 return W/ 2 WavySeas, 2 6155 Tunze streams

01/04/2007, 04:12 PM	#21
rreddick Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Brewster, MA Posts: 224	I know, but transfered out here from England, we thought we would get to go back to our house in SoCal, but no, have me running operations in both Europe and North America and Boston locaiton splits the dif, but at least we have the ocean, women, not the same look, and then there is the snow. My biggest fear after I setup my 180 was power outages, now have a 15kW natural gas gen tied into the main breaker box. LOL, and I used to worry about earth quakes Ron

01/04/2007, 04:58 PM	#22
rreddick Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Brewster, MA Posts: 224	Note to all who have helped, thanks. Just sent off to James to get a quote on the 10 x 4 x 3 as suggested. Also a new question, for the 3 foot depth, I have 6 - 400W 10K MH pendants from one of our plants that we shut down. Will that wattage work for that depth? Ron

01/04/2007, 05:49 PM	#23
viggen Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 2,213	A friend of mine does aquarium installation & I am sure he would be willing to give you info as well, he works with a few aquarium manufacturers. We rescently went to Philly to install a 10x5x3 shark tank & even though I had nothing to do with the $$$ side of things I beleive under $20K is what it cost for the tank, stand, installation, filters, chiller, lights etc. However it was not setup for reef & also did not use a big expensive skimmer. If you are worried that a 10x4x3 tank isn't enough you could always do 2 of them __________________ A tub of fish

01/04/2007, 06:01 PM	#24
Mr.Biggs Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: WY Posts: 374	If you are really serious about your original tank size I think you can get a lot closer then some have stated. Do to cost the main thing is are you going to DIY or buy equipment retail. The man you really need to talk to has "MOVED ON" (been band) from this sight. 22,000 gal tank The pic's are missing but it still has some good info in it. the tank is concrete and has 2 10' panels instead of the one 20' cost of 2600 each instead of 30K (See last page before thread was shut down)

01/05/2007, 08:21 AM	#25
rreddick Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Brewster, MA Posts: 224	Biggs, Thanks for the info, will check out the trhead. and Viggen, I am not opposed to DIY, have done a fair bit of my own work here on the house, and build furniture to relax. Steel work is not a problem, can mig and tig weld. Also currently have built my own Calc reactor and Phos reactors. My first attempt at acrylic work was for my sump, the joints are a bit rough but I have gotten better with it. Some alot I think I can handle. And the used MH's I have will help in already reducing some of the costs. I have also been checking out some of the other big build threads to get ideas on ventalation, lighting hoods and different ways people have automated and plumped the work rooms. There is some fantastic work out there by alot of people to get insperation from and I think this is doable. Just need to get a rough handle on the costs. I like the idea of maybe a concrete tank with the glass panels. Need to investigate how he bedded them and what the frame is constructed of. Do not want to have any metal come into contact with SW, just a corrision failure wating to happen. So thanks everyone for the help, getting some good ideas, and some helpful advice that the dream tank may be possible. Have already gotten the better half to accept the running costs that this will incure on a monthly basis, now to get the realistic dollars for the actual build. Ron