Can my overflows handle 4000gph?

[A sea K]

Im planning a CL for a 210 AGA w/ dual overflows. Im trying to avoid the suction line being seen in the display(I will be going up and over the back instead of drilling the tank).

I would like to place two 1 1/2" suction lines, 1 in each overflow to feed a sequence barracuda. I expect about 4000gph from the Cuda plus my return pump from the sump, another 1000gph, so a total 5000 gph to my overflows.

Does this seem likely to work or will it just be more than the overflows can handle without causing problems(noise,splash,and bubbles in the CL)?

[A sea K]

Wow, 10.5 hrs and no replies.

[sammie]

If you draw from the overflows it won't be a true "closed loop" meaning air can get into the system and NO the overflows will not handle 4000gph.

[A sea K]

Im not sure were on the same page. Instead of placeing the suction line over the back and into the display, I wish to go over the back and into the overflow so the suction line wont be visable from the front of the tank. I believe this still a closed loop. I do not intend for this much flow to go thru the bulkheads at the bottom of the overflow.

I see you use a hammerhead for your CL. Do you mind sharing your thoughts about your CL and my choice of pump? My intended corals are LPS and softies.

[chriscobb]

Technically speaking sammie is correct it wouldn't be considered a "true" CL. A CL is a continous cycle of water contained in the plumbing being that it would have it's own dedicated "feed" to supply the pump (Barracuda) and it would make a continous circle....With you wanting to hide and draw the water from the overflows you could possibly be setting yourself up for disaster IMO.....If you put your main pump and CL pump on separate circuits and for whatever reason your main pump goes out your CL pump would starve and burn up......

Again your theory could work, but it wouldn't be a true CL in the sense and definitely not would the overflows handle 5000gph.....IMO good choice on the Barracuda for CL....I'm running a OM 8Way and going to either upgrade to the Barracuda or Hammerhead over the Dart....took recommendation of the Dart on the 8Way and just not happy.....Needs more juice IMO.

[A sea K]

Originally posted by chriscobb
Technically speaking sammie is correct it wouldn't be considered a "true" CL. A CL is a continous cycle of water contained in the plumbing being that it would have it's own dedicated "feed" to supply the pump (Barracuda) and it would make a continous circle....With you wanting to hide and draw the water from the overflows you could possibly be setting yourself up for disaster IMO.....If you put your main pump and CL pump on separate circuits and for whatever reason your main pump goes out your CL pump would starve and burn up......

Again your theory could work, but it wouldn't be a true CL in the sense and definitely not would the overflows handle 5000gph.....IMO good choice on the Barracuda for CL....I'm running a OM 8Way and going to either upgrade to the Barracuda or Hammerhead over the Dart....took recommendation of the Dart on the 8Way and just not happy.....Needs more juice IMO.

Man am I glad I asked before acting, I had never considered the scenario you have pointed out, I will greatefully enjoy the beauty of the suction line in the display verses the outcome of the disaster had I placed it in the overflow and did lose my return pump.

I almost went with the Dart but am in the middle of upgrading and modifying almost everything else in the tank so the deciding factor was it would be easier to throttle down the Cuda a little than replace the dart with something stronger if it didnt quite work as expected.

Thanks very much for pointing this out, Chris

[gabe3d]

Funny thing, i have almost the exact same setup as what you are talking about. I have a Dart and Hammerhead plumbed on a 210 AGA. this can be accomplished but you will need to make sure that the durso pipes are high enough that even if your return pump is dead, your CL will still be able to draw water. Take a look at my red house, you'll find pics of how i set it up. The overflow themselves can handle much more than 4000gph granted that you remove all the teeth at the top.

[A sea K]

gabe3d, Very nice system. I think I will play it safe and deal with the suction in the display. But out of curiousoty did you use one suction line or two to feed the hammerhead? Also did you have any trouble with splash, noise, bubbles,etc with that much water going over the top of the overflow, and how did you solve them?

In your photos it looks like you have 8 returns for the closed loop.
What size pipe do use for your return and what did you use for the nozzle in the tank?

[gabe3d]

Thanks . Be very careful about this over the top intake setup. If power goes out the water in the tube and tank will equalize, therefore making it impossible for water to get to your pump since there will be air where the bends are at in the tube. If you do go this route i highly recommend you adding some sort of auto priming with a vacuum pump (like an aqualifter) or a reverse checkvalve on the inputs.

I used two suction lines combined to one to feed the hammerhead. No trouble with splash, noise and bubbles if the durso standpipes are setup high enough. The height of the Durso pipes are really important in my setup and will create lots of problem if the are set too low.

My tank is still not yet completed but at the momment the Hammerhead is connected to a OM4way (1.5 in and 1 out) with three 3/4 locline flare nozels fitting at each output (only two are shown in those pics).

[A sea K]

OK, but if the intake and nozzles remain fully submerged during pump shut down that should prevent any air from entering the system, correct?

No longer going down the overflow w/suction line so I'll place the pick up deeper in the tank behind some rocks so I just need to be carefull about the depth of the outlets. Will also use a manual primer for W/C change time when the tank level is low.

I'm going all the way w/1.5 pipe and bushing down to 3/4 lockline to obtain the max flow possible.
Due to all the extra expense of the mods/upgrades ( this project isnt too bad but the lighting thing is going to hurt), I'm passing on the Oceans Motions for now but should be easy enough to add in the future.

[chriscobb]

Hey Gabe3d, how is the flow will the HammerHead on the OM4Way? When purchasing mine I had talked that over with Paul on using the HammerHead with my OM8Way and advised to much flow so went with the Dart and I'm now kicking myself in the *ss.........I'm going to have to change it out shortly....

[gabe3d]

Originally posted by A sea K
OK, but if the intake and nozzles remain fully submerged during pump shut down that should prevent any air from entering the system, correct?

No longer going down the overflow w/suction line so I'll place the pick up deeper in the tank behind some rocks so I just need to be carefull about the depth of the outlets. Will also use a manual primer for W/C change time when the tank level is low.

I'm going all the way w/1.5 pipe and bushing down to 3/4 lockline to obtain the max flow possible.
Due to all the extra expense of the mods/upgrades ( this project isnt too bad but the lighting thing is going to hurt), I'm passing on the Oceans Motions for now but should be easy enough to add in the future.

Good point, if it is deep enough it won't happen. Didn't think about that as a solution

[gabe3d]

Originally posted by chriscobb
Hey Gabe3d, how is the flow will the HammerHead on the OM4Way? When purchasing mine I had talked that over with Paul on using the HammerHead with my OM8Way and advised to much flow so went with the Dart and I'm now kicking myself in the *ss.........I'm going to have to change it out shortly....

Flow wise the hammerhead is tremendously more powerful than the dart. It pushes much more water and has higher pressure rating. Sometimes too much for my 210 but something i can deal with. The only let down i had about the pump is that i expected something as silent as the Dart but it is a little louder. What cuts down on noise a lot is soft plumbing and the ability for the pump to freely move. Overall i am satisfied with the pump.

[A sea K]

Thankyou all for the help, chris

[chriscobb]

Thanks guys.....I run a HammerHead on my return for my 240, and it's definitely louder than the Dart, but I don't concern myself with noise per say due to the pumps and all being in a separate room......I just might have to put another HammerHead on the 8Way........

[swedish steel]

After talking to Paul about my 300, I am going with two Darts each feeding an OM4 way for my closed loop system. My tanks are drilled, but putting the system together is slow since I am not financing the process to get the instant gratification.

[sammie]

I have a hammerhead running my CL and feed it from two 2" bulkheads. I drilled them about 1/3 the way down from the top and spaced evenly from the sides. This is in case one intake gets plugged and also the sequence pumps need a FLOODED intake and not fed from a siphon such as over the top. I've got the CL return going into three separate manifolds having 7 outlets each and I get a tremendous random flow. If you drill your tank in the locations I did the intakes are completely hidden with rock around them. Go with a hammerhead as it's only about $30 more for a lot more flow.

[gabe3d]

Originally posted by sammie
also the sequence pumps need a FLOODED intake and not fed from a siphon such as over the top.

Not true, if you look at the first page in the manual it illustrates two installation options, one is flooded the other by suction.