Oxygen Level Question - Air Stones in Sump, Need one in Display?

Vegas_ReefMan · 02/08/2007, 12:44 PM

If I have a 225 tall tank which is 6' x 2' x 30" tall, and I have a sump tank which has 3 air stones in it, 2 inflows which returns the water from the display, which creates a lot of ripples in addition to the protein skimmer in the sump; do I need to keep an airstone in the display? As whenever I leave the airstone in the display it creates nuisance algae in the display much faster. Please advise as to whether or not you feel that I add an airstone to the display. I use a Rena 400 air pump which is hooked to a gate valve, and powers 3 air stones in the sump. Thanks again!

lvpd186 · 02/08/2007, 12:58 PM

IMO I'm not sure why you even need the air stones in the sump. If you have good gas exchange on the surface of the tank (you didn't specify if it was covered or not, but you mentioned the surface agitation), plus the water going through the sump and through a protein skimmer I don't think you should have problems with oxygen levels. Were you having low oxygen problems before? I've never used airstones in a SW setup (at least since I stopped using one to run a skimmer!) and I've never had a problem with oxygen.

BurntOutReefer · 02/08/2007, 01:02 PM

agree with lvpd186............

db_triggerfish · 02/08/2007, 01:20 PM

agree with lvpd186,
No need for airstone anywhere in your system, also you have two really good powerheads Tunze 6080 at @ 2250g/h.

Vegas_ReefMan · 02/08/2007, 02:17 PM

Thanks guys, the surface is in a closed canopy with lids, but i run a wavysea wavemaker pro so surface agitation in the display is also high. I only used airstones in the sump as I am a rookie and I thought they would still be needed despite the surface ripples and other agitation in the system. Thanks again

Reefmaniac1 · 02/08/2007, 02:17 PM

Turnover from the display to the sump should be plenty of aeration as it is. No need for airstones making more of a mess (bubble splash) than they are worth.

Vegas_ReefMan · 02/08/2007, 02:46 PM

Man, I feel so stupid... I knew that I had tons of circulation and turnover, I just always thought you needed the air stones... I will remove all 3 stones, one per day will be removed over the next 3 days to prevent to fast of a removal...

Icefire · 02/08/2007, 03:00 PM

Look at your ph, if he drop after a day you removed the airstone put them back.

Vegas_ReefMan · 02/08/2007, 03:16 PM

Thanks Icefire, will do...

djtodd · 02/09/2007, 01:38 AM

Think about it this way, your skimmer is one huge airstone.

DrBDC · 02/09/2007, 06:20 AM

Your pH will possibly drop a little but just make sure it doesn't go down into the 7's. If you run a ca reactor it may skirt real close to it but that's still ok. There are other options still available if it does.

Vegas_ReefMan · 02/09/2007, 09:10 AM

Thanks, I dont run a CA reactor; so it should not drop so low... I dose calcium with Two Little Fishies Brand Part A and Part B calcium supplements. With the air stones my PH was always around 8.20 - 8.35

DrBDC · 02/09/2007, 09:14 AM

If you find it drops off more than you want, you could possibly run an suction tube for the skimmer to a fresher air source depending on the surroundings.

GSMguy · 02/09/2007, 10:48 AM

i would ditch the glass covers in the canop the canopy will keep the fish in all the glass does is cut down light and keep out oxygen

Vegas_ReefMan · 02/09/2007, 11:32 AM

Thanks GSM, I hate cleaning my lids anyways... But then what if the wires holding your lights give way... Splash? ZZZZZ power in water? Do most reef keepers not use glass lids inside of their canopies? Thanks again and please advise...

BurntOutReefer · 02/09/2007, 11:39 AM

"But then what if the wires holding your lights give way... Splash? ZZZZZ power in water? "...LOL...
I would think that if the lights drop on the glass....it would break...and then zap and glass in the tank....(assuming using regular window type glass....)

Vegas_ReefMan · 02/09/2007, 11:40 AM

Agreed Burnout, but still it is better to have the glass break and be on top of the glass than in the water, which would make me break down the whole tank to get the glass out. Please let me know if you guys dont use lids with canopies as a majority.

tkeracer619 · 02/09/2007, 12:40 PM

Don't hang your lights with anything that will break. I use stainless chain from HD.

Ditch the covers and cover any hole in the back of the canopy with egg crate.

lvpd186 · 02/09/2007, 12:42 PM

I dont use glass lids for some of the same reasons mentioned here; 1) they cut down on your light (even if they are clean), 2) they don't allow good gas exchange, 3) the glass lids seem to trap heat. I think you will be supprized by the difference when you take your lids off.

02/08/2007, 12:44 PM	#1
Vegas_ReefMan Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 316	Oxygen Level Question - Air Stones in Sump, Need one in Display? If I have a 225 tall tank which is 6' x 2' x 30" tall, and I have a sump tank which has 3 air stones in it, 2 inflows which returns the water from the display, which creates a lot of ripples in addition to the protein skimmer in the sump; do I need to keep an airstone in the display? As whenever I leave the airstone in the display it creates nuisance algae in the display much faster. Please advise as to whether or not you feel that I add an airstone to the display. I use a Rena 400 air pump which is hooked to a gate valve, and powers 3 air stones in the sump. Thanks again!

02/08/2007, 12:58 PM	#2
lvpd186 Reefing in NE Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Papillion, NE Posts: 1,485	IMO I'm not sure why you even need the air stones in the sump. If you have good gas exchange on the surface of the tank (you didn't specify if it was covered or not, but you mentioned the surface agitation), plus the water going through the sump and through a protein skimmer I don't think you should have problems with oxygen levels. Were you having low oxygen problems before? I've never used airstones in a SW setup (at least since I stopped using one to run a skimmer!) and I've never had a problem with oxygen. __________________ "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice." Bill Cosby

02/08/2007, 01:20 PM	#4
db_triggerfish Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: South Florida Posts: 1,127	agree with lvpd186, No need for airstone anywhere in your system, also you have two really good powerheads Tunze 6080 at @ 2250g/h. __________________ FMAS - Florida Marine Aquarium Society Member . Current Tank Info: AGA 75g RR 6 x 54w T5 overdriven (510w) with 2 x Icecap 660, DAS EX-1 Skimmer, OR 2500, Reefkeeper II

02/08/2007, 02:17 PM	#6
Reefmaniac1 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Durham, NC Posts: 2,580	Turnover from the display to the sump should be plenty of aeration as it is. No need for airstones making more of a mess (bubble splash) than they are worth. __________________ "Stupidity is not necessarily punishable by violence. Although, there are days when I wish it were." - Solomon Short Current Tank Info: None due to disaster...and moving.

02/08/2007, 03:00 PM	#8
Icefire Seasoned reefer Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: In Quebec, Canada Posts: 3,653	Look at your ph, if he drop after a day you removed the airstone put them back. __________________ Temp 80F, PH 8.5-8.0, Alk 6.8-7.2, Ca 430, Mg 1700, NO3 0-0.25, PO4 0.04, 34.4 PPT Lights @ 100% all others, 35% White Current Tank Info: 60g Cube, 120lbs live rocks, Hydra52 2x120W, 2 MP40+ 1 MP10 @ 70%, Phosban 550 GFO+Carbon, 200W Heater, SWC Skimmer, Kalk ATO, 150 gpd RODI

02/08/2007, 01:02 PM	#3
BurntOutReefer Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Granada Hills Posts: 4,376	agree with lvpd186............

02/08/2007, 02:46 PM	#7
Vegas_ReefMan Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 316	Man, I feel so stupid... I knew that I had tons of circulation and turnover, I just always thought you needed the air stones... I will remove all 3 stones, one per day will be removed over the next 3 days to prevent to fast of a removal...

02/08/2007, 03:16 PM	#9
Vegas_ReefMan Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 316	Thanks Icefire, will do...

02/09/2007, 01:38 AM	#10
djtodd Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 482	Think about it this way, your skimmer is one huge airstone. __________________ 125G Reef with 40G sump/fuge. 2x 250w 14k MH, H&S A150-F2001 Skimmer, 3x Tunze 6045, MW No3 Reactor, Coralife Ca Reactor. Mostly softies with a metric tonne of Zoanthids. Current Tank Info: Got polyps?

02/09/2007, 06:20 AM	#11
DrBDC Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Ballwin, Missouri Posts: 10,358	Your pH will possibly drop a little but just make sure it doesn't go down into the 7's. If you run a ca reactor it may skirt real close to it but that's still ok. There are other options still available if it does. __________________ Some drink at the fountain of knowledge, some just gargle, but most are rabid. Current Tank Info: 180g sps+75 softy/lps on one system tunze's, seio's, mjmods, aquacontroller w/add ons, 2X400 XM10000 and 3X160 vho actinic, 110g sump, 110 frag tank, Geo Beckett and other stuff

02/09/2007, 09:10 AM	#12
Vegas_ReefMan Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 316	Thanks, I dont run a CA reactor; so it should not drop so low... I dose calcium with Two Little Fishies Brand Part A and Part B calcium supplements. With the air stones my PH was always around 8.20 - 8.35

02/09/2007, 09:14 AM	#13
DrBDC Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Ballwin, Missouri Posts: 10,358	If you find it drops off more than you want, you could possibly run an suction tube for the skimmer to a fresher air source depending on the surroundings. __________________ Some drink at the fountain of knowledge, some just gargle, but most are rabid. Current Tank Info: 180g sps+75 softy/lps on one system tunze's, seio's, mjmods, aquacontroller w/add ons, 2X400 XM10000 and 3X160 vho actinic, 110g sump, 110 frag tank, Geo Beckett and other stuff

02/09/2007, 10:48 AM	#14
GSMguy Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northern New Mexico Posts: 17,420	i would ditch the glass covers in the canop the canopy will keep the fish in all the glass does is cut down light and keep out oxygen __________________ Nick. Conehead. Shallow Reef club. Current Tank Info: 48"x27"x14" Envision Acrylic rimless, 6x39w ATi Sunpower, Custom ATB Deluxe Skimmer, 4x tunze nano stream,ATB flowstar 1500, ACJR, Tunze osmolator.

02/09/2007, 11:32 AM	#15
Vegas_ReefMan Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 316	Thanks GSM, I hate cleaning my lids anyways... But then what if the wires holding your lights give way... Splash? ZZZZZ power in water? Do most reef keepers not use glass lids inside of their canopies? Thanks again and please advise...

02/09/2007, 11:39 AM	#16
BurntOutReefer Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Granada Hills Posts: 4,376	"But then what if the wires holding your lights give way... Splash? ZZZZZ power in water? "...LOL... I would think that if the lights drop on the glass....it would break...and then zap and glass in the tank....(assuming using regular window type glass....)

02/09/2007, 11:40 AM	#17
Vegas_ReefMan Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 316	Agreed Burnout, but still it is better to have the glass break and be on top of the glass than in the water, which would make me break down the whole tank to get the glass out. Please let me know if you guys dont use lids with canopies as a majority.

02/09/2007, 12:40 PM	#18
tkeracer619 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Westminster, CO Posts: 17,289	Don't hang your lights with anything that will break. I use stainless chain from HD. Ditch the covers and cover any hole in the back of the canopy with egg crate. __________________ Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers. Current Tank: Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k.

02/09/2007, 12:42 PM	#19
lvpd186 Reefing in NE Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Papillion, NE Posts: 1,485	I dont use glass lids for some of the same reasons mentioned here; 1) they cut down on your light (even if they are clean), 2) they don't allow good gas exchange, 3) the glass lids seem to trap heat. I think you will be supprized by the difference when you take your lids off. __________________ "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice." Bill Cosby