Matching Overflow GPH with Return Pump GPH

Amoore311 · 02/09/2007, 09:58 AM

I've got a U-Tube overflow with 1 1/2" Bulkhead to drain down to my sump.

Which Mag Pump should I grab as a return? It's 3-4 feet from the floor of the sump to the tank.

If anyone has a link to the magdrive chart that shows the GPH in relation to the "head" that would help out.

As a side note:

I wanted to get a Gate Valve to put on my return in case I needed to cycle the pump back at all. All that's available is the copper pipe gate valves at Home Depot. Will those work with PVC pipe w/ a threaded adapter if I use teflon tape and pvc cement?.

I'm very green when it comes to plumbing so I'm not even sure if can use copper pipe with Salt Water.

rtecanoe · 02/09/2007, 10:08 AM

You can't use copper pipe with salt water, anything copper is devastating to corals!

Amoore311 · 02/09/2007, 10:36 AM

I thought that would be the answer. The stupid valve was $10 anyways.

I also found the Flow Chart for the Maxijets...... but I'm not sure how much flowing I'm getting out of that bulkhead.....

Anyone have a clue?

luke33 · 02/09/2007, 11:33 AM

Get a plastic one from lowe's.....home depot stinks for us reefers!!!

luke33 · 02/09/2007, 11:36 AM

Is that one 1/2" bulkhead or a 1 1/2 inch bulkhead? Huge difference there. One is 300gph and the other is 1500gph, on average. Are you looking for alot of flow, or not much. For instance my overflow has two 1" bulkheads and is rated for 1200gph, but i'm pulling 1000gph through it with 4 u-tubes using a sub pump rated at 1350gph at 4' head.

Amoore311 · 02/09/2007, 11:41 AM

I have 1 X 1/2" bulkhead..... Well 1/2" PVC is what fits on the bulkhead so thats what I would assume a 1/2" Bulkhead is...

I have a standard 29 gallon aquarium with 2 maxi-jet 900's plus w/e the return would be from my return pump.

So I can safely assume that my Bulkhead is rated for 300gph of unrestricted flow?

I'm looking at a Mag5 would that be sufficient or is there a better alternative that is around the same price or cheaper?

Amoore311 · 02/09/2007, 01:20 PM

Bump

skyfireblaze · 02/09/2007, 01:46 PM

You can find pump curves and other info at this excellent resource. There is a link to an Advanced Aquarist's article on plumbing and fluid dynamics on that webpage. You can download an MS Excel spreadsheet for fluid flow calculations from the article. The spreadsheet has pump curves in it. Also, pump performance can be found using the RC head loss calculator. The spreadsheet appears to be identical to RC's calculator.

RC also has a drain size calculator. I don't claim to understand how this one works, but it'll tell you how big your pipe needs to be to handle the input flow rate.

What kind of siphon overflow do you have? I've never seen one with a 1/2" bulkhead? Every siphon overflow I've ever seen and/or heard of comes with a 1" bulkhead and claims to be capable of 600 gph (unless it's a "double" overflow with two 1" bulkheads and 1,200 gph of flow capacity). Of course, I haven't come across every brand of siphon overflow out there ...

Either way, the manufacturer of your siphon overflow should tell you what it's rated for.

With a 29g tank, I personally wouldn't push more than 300 gph through the return/overflow/sump. What size exactly is your sump. Most recommendations are for no more than 4x to 6x of the sump volume in turnover. You just want to make sure that you're flowing enough water through the siphon tube that you don't accumulate air bubbles or anything else that would make you lose siphon.

Hope this rambling makes a little bit of sense ....

luke33 · 02/09/2007, 01:48 PM

I'd go with a mag 3, that should work fine, you don't want to have to much return and not enough flow. The only thing you could do if you already had the mag 5 was if it were to much, add a ball valve on the return and feed the excess back to your sump. I have to large of a return for my overflow, but did it on purpose to feed my fuge. Good luck and feel free to ask me anything about your sump.

Amoore311 · 02/09/2007, 02:26 PM

I didn't purchase the pump yet. I bought the overflow box from a local Reef Store.

My sump is an old standard rectangular 10 gallon fishtank.

The Bulkead has a small piece of white PVC comming out of it on each end. 1/2" PVC fits directly over those pieces properly.

Also, the outer box in this overflow doesn't have a baffle like most I've seen online.....

I'm going to need to put one in there to keep the siphon right?

luke33 · 02/09/2007, 03:00 PM

Sounds kinda different, i think you'll be fine with the mag 3, you dont want to have to much flow down there.

luke33 · 02/09/2007, 03:03 PM

I think i know what your talking about as far as a baffle goes. here's what mine looks like. http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.c...8_1905_4490584

I don't have a baffle on the outside boxes, as long as your water level is above your utube you'll be fine, which i'm sure you'll be as well. I've never seen a overflow built a different way, if it were it would be a complete waste. If you have a pic, that would help greatly.

Amoore311 · 02/09/2007, 03:39 PM

I'll try and get a pic once I leave work.......

luke33 · 02/09/2007, 03:44 PM

10-4, it could be a while, i'm at work as well so i won't be looking online til late, but i'll try and remember.

Amoore311 · 02/12/2007, 09:16 AM

Ok double checked everything and it's a 1" Bulkhead.

I picked up all the plumbing and acrylic I will need for my sump, and have my Maxijet 350 on order

luke33 · 02/12/2007, 09:43 AM

Amoore, the maxijet man not be the best choice here. Its mainly for a powerhead, i'm not sure how well it will do as a sump pump. The 1" overflow can handle 600gph. Which means you do need atleast 300gph flowing through it. So you could use a mag 5. I think the maxi will be a bit to small and your u-tube will have a tough time keeping out air....which is a serious no no.

skyfireblaze · 02/12/2007, 10:58 AM

I agree that a MaxiJet is not what you want, especially with 3-4 feet of vertical head to overcome. You need a pump not a powerhead; something that will be able to handle the fluid losses.

Personally, I'd recommend you take a look at the OceanRunner and/or Eheim pumps as well. If you do decide to go with a Mag pump make sure that you use a return plumbing that's double the output fitting size. Use 1" pipe when plumbing a Mag pump with a 1/2" fitting.

Amoore311 · 02/12/2007, 11:07 AM

*ugh*

I was typing to fast and ordering a few things at once from Premium Aquatics, while typing that up lol.

I'm ordering a Mag-Drive 350 as a return pump.

Amoore311 · 02/12/2007, 11:19 AM

Quote:

If you do decide to go with a Mag pump make sure that you use a return plumbing that's double the output fitting size. Use 1" pipe when plumbing a Mag pump with a 1/2" fitting.

Sorry but I am new to the plumbing scene...

Why exactly would I want to double the output fitting size?

Also do 1/2" -> 1" fittings exist? Or do I need to do it gradually?

skyfireblaze · 02/12/2007, 12:40 PM

The flow ratings provided by the Mag pump manufacturer are based on using "double-sized" plumbing (the 1" pipe for the 1/2" pump outlet). In order to get the flow you'd expect from the flow curves, you'll want to have the larger pipe.

This is at least true for the larger (9.5 and above) Mag pumps. You can download the instruction sheet for these guys from www.dannermfg.com. For these larger pumps with 3/4" fittings, it states right below the flow curve plot in the instructions to not use less than 1.5" ID pipe for max flow.

See if you can search here on RC for mag pumps and plumbing size and you'll find a good many posts on the subject ...

And yeah, 1/2" - 1" fittings do exist. I just happened to get a couple 1/2" - 1" bushings last week from Lowes. You can find them fairly easily.

Amoore311 · 02/12/2007, 12:52 PM

excellent I'll just swap out the 1/2" stuff for 1" at the ol' Home Depot.

thanks for all the help.

luke33 · 02/12/2007, 01:28 PM

Amoore.....Home Depot pry won't have them. Lowes is way better in our hobby, but feel free to check if you like HD more. And i'm not sure if you would even need this for a mag 3. As a matter a fact, i wouldn't worry about it for a mag 3. Like stated above your talking about this being a factor when it comes to the mag 9.5 and above.

OO7 · 02/12/2007, 01:36 PM

Would you double the return pipe on an EHEIM as well? Does the same logic apply?

Amoore311 · 02/12/2007, 02:29 PM

I only use Lowe's for my Acrylic, since Home Depot doesn't cut it.

As far as plumbing goes I'm pretty sure Home Depot and Lowe's have almost the same exact stuff.

I had an awful time finding Silicone since they both carry the indentical GE brand (which says on the back "Not for aquarium use").

luke33 · 02/12/2007, 02:32 PM

In Indiana, home depot has nothing i need for pluming as far as bulkheads and ball bearings and yada yada, they do have pvc pic\pe. But it pry depends on location.

02/09/2007, 09:58 AM	#1
Amoore311 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ulster County, NY Posts: 2,521	Matching Overflow GPH with Return Pump GPH I've got a U-Tube overflow with 1 1/2" Bulkhead to drain down to my sump. Which Mag Pump should I grab as a return? It's 3-4 feet from the floor of the sump to the tank. If anyone has a link to the magdrive chart that shows the GPH in relation to the "head" that would help out. As a side note: I wanted to get a Gate Valve to put on my return in case I needed to cycle the pump back at all. All that's available is the copper pipe gate valves at Home Depot. Will those work with PVC pipe w/ a threaded adapter if I use teflon tape and pvc cement?. I'm very green when it comes to plumbing so I'm not even sure if can use copper pipe with Salt Water.

02/09/2007, 10:08 AM	#2
rtecanoe Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oakdale, Long Island Posts: 512	You can't use copper pipe with salt water, anything copper is devastating to corals! __________________ Rick Current Tank Info: 180 gallon reef

02/09/2007, 01:20 PM	#7
Amoore311 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ulster County, NY Posts: 2,521	Bump __________________ 30 Gallon FOWLR 2004-2006 90 Gallon LPS Reef 2006-2008 180 Gallon SPS Reef 2008-20012 100 Gallon Custom Rimless Mixed Reef 2012-2014 29 Gallon Biocube Reef! Current Current Tank Info: 29 Gallon Biocube, StevesLED Upgrade, Neptune Apex

02/09/2007, 01:46 PM	#8
skyfireblaze Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 754	You can find pump curves and other info at this excellent resource. There is a link to an Advanced Aquarist's article on plumbing and fluid dynamics on that webpage. You can download an MS Excel spreadsheet for fluid flow calculations from the article. The spreadsheet has pump curves in it. Also, pump performance can be found using the RC head loss calculator. The spreadsheet appears to be identical to RC's calculator. RC also has a drain size calculator. I don't claim to understand how this one works, but it'll tell you how big your pipe needs to be to handle the input flow rate. What kind of siphon overflow do you have? I've never seen one with a 1/2" bulkhead? Every siphon overflow I've ever seen and/or heard of comes with a 1" bulkhead and claims to be capable of 600 gph (unless it's a "double" overflow with two 1" bulkheads and 1,200 gph of flow capacity). Of course, I haven't come across every brand of siphon overflow out there ... Either way, the manufacturer of your siphon overflow should tell you what it's rated for. With a 29g tank, I personally wouldn't push more than 300 gph through the return/overflow/sump. What size exactly is your sump. Most recommendations are for no more than 4x to 6x of the sump volume in turnover. You just want to make sure that you're flowing enough water through the siphon tube that you don't accumulate air bubbles or anything else that would make you lose siphon. Hope this rambling makes a little bit of sense .... __________________ Jon Current Tank Info: 37g (24"x18"x21") - Eheim 1250 Return Pump - Deltec AP600 Skimmer - 250w MH & 2x24w T5 (Maristar) - 2 MaxiJet 1200's (for now) - Tunze Osmolator ATO

02/09/2007, 02:26 PM	#10
Amoore311 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ulster County, NY Posts: 2,521	I didn't purchase the pump yet. I bought the overflow box from a local Reef Store. My sump is an old standard rectangular 10 gallon fishtank. The Bulkead has a small piece of white PVC comming out of it on each end. 1/2" PVC fits directly over those pieces properly. Also, the outer box in this overflow doesn't have a baffle like most I've seen online..... I'm going to need to put one in there to keep the siphon right? __________________ 30 Gallon FOWLR 2004-2006 90 Gallon LPS Reef 2006-2008 180 Gallon SPS Reef 2008-20012 100 Gallon Custom Rimless Mixed Reef 2012-2014 29 Gallon Biocube Reef! Current Current Tank Info: 29 Gallon Biocube, StevesLED Upgrade, Neptune Apex

02/09/2007, 10:36 AM	#3
Amoore311 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ulster County, NY Posts: 2,521	I thought that would be the answer. The stupid valve was $10 anyways. I also found the Flow Chart for the Maxijets...... but I'm not sure how much flowing I'm getting out of that bulkhead..... Anyone have a clue?

02/09/2007, 11:33 AM	#4
luke33 Moved On Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 8,375	Get a plastic one from lowe's.....home depot stinks for us reefers!!!

02/09/2007, 11:36 AM	#5
luke33 Moved On Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 8,375	Is that one 1/2" bulkhead or a 1 1/2 inch bulkhead? Huge difference there. One is 300gph and the other is 1500gph, on average. Are you looking for alot of flow, or not much. For instance my overflow has two 1" bulkheads and is rated for 1200gph, but i'm pulling 1000gph through it with 4 u-tubes using a sub pump rated at 1350gph at 4' head.

02/09/2007, 11:41 AM	#6
Amoore311 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ulster County, NY Posts: 2,521	I have 1 X 1/2" bulkhead..... Well 1/2" PVC is what fits on the bulkhead so thats what I would assume a 1/2" Bulkhead is... I have a standard 29 gallon aquarium with 2 maxi-jet 900's plus w/e the return would be from my return pump. So I can safely assume that my Bulkhead is rated for 300gph of unrestricted flow? I'm looking at a Mag5 would that be sufficient or is there a better alternative that is around the same price or cheaper?

02/09/2007, 01:48 PM	#9
luke33 Moved On Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 8,375	I'd go with a mag 3, that should work fine, you don't want to have to much return and not enough flow. The only thing you could do if you already had the mag 5 was if it were to much, add a ball valve on the return and feed the excess back to your sump. I have to large of a return for my overflow, but did it on purpose to feed my fuge. Good luck and feel free to ask me anything about your sump.

02/09/2007, 03:00 PM	#11
luke33 Moved On Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 8,375	Sounds kinda different, i think you'll be fine with the mag 3, you dont want to have to much flow down there.

02/09/2007, 03:03 PM	#12
luke33 Moved On Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 8,375	I think i know what your talking about as far as a baffle goes. here's what mine looks like. http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.c...8_1905_4490584 I don't have a baffle on the outside boxes, as long as your water level is above your utube you'll be fine, which i'm sure you'll be as well. I've never seen a overflow built a different way, if it were it would be a complete waste. If you have a pic, that would help greatly.

02/09/2007, 03:39 PM	#13
Amoore311 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ulster County, NY Posts: 2,521	I'll try and get a pic once I leave work.......

02/09/2007, 03:44 PM	#14
luke33 Moved On Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 8,375	10-4, it could be a while, i'm at work as well so i won't be looking online til late, but i'll try and remember.

02/12/2007, 09:16 AM	#15
Amoore311 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ulster County, NY Posts: 2,521	Ok double checked everything and it's a 1" Bulkhead. I picked up all the plumbing and acrylic I will need for my sump, and have my Maxijet 350 on order

02/12/2007, 09:43 AM	#16
luke33 Moved On Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 8,375	Amoore, the maxijet man not be the best choice here. Its mainly for a powerhead, i'm not sure how well it will do as a sump pump. The 1" overflow can handle 600gph. Which means you do need atleast 300gph flowing through it. So you could use a mag 5. I think the maxi will be a bit to small and your u-tube will have a tough time keeping out air....which is a serious no no.

02/12/2007, 10:58 AM	#17
skyfireblaze Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 754	I agree that a MaxiJet is not what you want, especially with 3-4 feet of vertical head to overcome. You need a pump not a powerhead; something that will be able to handle the fluid losses. Personally, I'd recommend you take a look at the OceanRunner and/or Eheim pumps as well. If you do decide to go with a Mag pump make sure that you use a return plumbing that's double the output fitting size. Use 1" pipe when plumbing a Mag pump with a 1/2" fitting. __________________ Jon Current Tank Info: 37g (24"x18"x21") - Eheim 1250 Return Pump - Deltec AP600 Skimmer - 250w MH & 2x24w T5 (Maristar) - 2 MaxiJet 1200's (for now) - Tunze Osmolator ATO

02/12/2007, 11:07 AM	#18
Amoore311 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ulster County, NY Posts: 2,521	ugh I was typing to fast and ordering a few things at once from Premium Aquatics, while typing that up lol. I'm ordering a Mag-Drive 350 as a return pump.

02/12/2007, 12:40 PM	#20
skyfireblaze Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 754	The flow ratings provided by the Mag pump manufacturer are based on using "double-sized" plumbing (the 1" pipe for the 1/2" pump outlet). In order to get the flow you'd expect from the flow curves, you'll want to have the larger pipe. This is at least true for the larger (9.5 and above) Mag pumps. You can download the instruction sheet for these guys from www.dannermfg.com. For these larger pumps with 3/4" fittings, it states right below the flow curve plot in the instructions to not use less than 1.5" ID pipe for max flow. See if you can search here on RC for mag pumps and plumbing size and you'll find a good many posts on the subject ... And yeah, 1/2" - 1" fittings do exist. I just happened to get a couple 1/2" - 1" bushings last week from Lowes. You can find them fairly easily. __________________ Jon Current Tank Info: 37g (24"x18"x21") - Eheim 1250 Return Pump - Deltec AP600 Skimmer - 250w MH & 2x24w T5 (Maristar) - 2 MaxiJet 1200's (for now) - Tunze Osmolator ATO Last edited by skyfireblaze; 02/12/2007 at 12:52 PM.

02/12/2007, 12:52 PM	#21
Amoore311 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ulster County, NY Posts: 2,521	excellent I'll just swap out the 1/2" stuff for 1" at the ol' Home Depot. thanks for all the help. __________________ 30 Gallon FOWLR 2004-2006 90 Gallon LPS Reef 2006-2008 180 Gallon SPS Reef 2008-20012 100 Gallon Custom Rimless Mixed Reef 2012-2014 29 Gallon Biocube Reef! Current Current Tank Info: 29 Gallon Biocube, StevesLED Upgrade, Neptune Apex

02/12/2007, 01:28 PM	#22
luke33 Moved On Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 8,375	Amoore.....Home Depot pry won't have them. Lowes is way better in our hobby, but feel free to check if you like HD more. And i'm not sure if you would even need this for a mag 3. As a matter a fact, i wouldn't worry about it for a mag 3. Like stated above your talking about this being a factor when it comes to the mag 9.5 and above.

02/12/2007, 01:36 PM	#23
OO7 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 153	Would you double the return pipe on an EHEIM as well? Does the same logic apply?

02/12/2007, 02:29 PM	#24
Amoore311 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ulster County, NY Posts: 2,521	I only use Lowe's for my Acrylic, since Home Depot doesn't cut it. As far as plumbing goes I'm pretty sure Home Depot and Lowe's have almost the same exact stuff. I had an awful time finding Silicone since they both carry the indentical GE brand (which says on the back "Not for aquarium use"). __________________ 30 Gallon FOWLR 2004-2006 90 Gallon LPS Reef 2006-2008 180 Gallon SPS Reef 2008-20012 100 Gallon Custom Rimless Mixed Reef 2012-2014 29 Gallon Biocube Reef! Current Current Tank Info: 29 Gallon Biocube, StevesLED Upgrade, Neptune Apex

02/12/2007, 02:32 PM	#25
luke33 Moved On Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 8,375	In Indiana, home depot has nothing i need for pluming as far as bulkheads and ball bearings and yada yada, they do have pvc pic\pe. But it pry depends on location.