My story of t-5 and MH...

[reefgeek84]

So I feel there is so much bias involved with this whole debate. I think everyone either does not want to try something else or they have tried something and they are not happy about it, but do not want to admit they are wrong. I will not be arguing par here, that is not the intention of this thread or whether or not T-5's can grow SPS or not, bottom line they can. however...

My story... I had a 50gal tank that I went with MH over, I then upgraded to a 120gal. I read through every post I could find that discussed this long drawn out debate. I finally decided to go with T-5's for many reasons...
-More color options
-Less heat
-Less electricity
-Cheaper cost of bulbs
-longer life of bulbs (this is a debate in itself depending who you ask)

So I picked up a 8 lamp tek t-5 fixture and URI bulbs (some of the best par that comes out of t- lights) the combo was

2-super actinics
2-GE daylights
2-Actinic whites (12k)
2-AquaSun (10K)

What I noticed... Decent growth...colors were pale and bland, they did not "pop"...as for the things I wanted from going t-5's

-More color options- colors did not look that good
-Less heat- Since t-5's had to be so close to the water (most say 2-3") they still produced heat and raised the tank temp, so I had to get a chiller
-Less electricityIt saved some but with my new set up, it would only draw about 10 bucks less a month
-Cheaper cost of bulbsnot really, at 23 bucks a bulb without shipping, that comes to 184 bucks
-longer life of bulbs (this is a debate in itself depending who you ask)Again debatable

So I talked with Travis at Upscales www.upscales.com, who is local to me and has two of the most impressive show tanks in the hobby, originator of the oregon tort and others. I talked with him on his thoughts of the whole lighting debate. He told me he would never go with t-5's, halides just give the coral the extra "umph" in both color and growth. So after much debate in my head...I picked up a dual 400w SE set up.

I love it, I will never go back to t-5's or run anything else. The color is so much better and the corals just "pop" more then the t-5's could dream of doing.

As for my reasons for going t-5's the halides do not have the cons that I thought they would.

I had to have a chiller either way, bulbs are cheaper for a dual set up and my color is way better. MH wins...

I would have no problem admitting that I was wrong in going the halides if that was the case, however it is not the case.

I hope that this helps someone else out in their decision. Please do not think that I am not saying t-5's can not grow SPS, they can for sure and do...I just think the look is not very good and in this hobby that is what it is all about.

if someone has any questions, feel free to ask.

[ClownNut]

i am running 4 T5HO with 2 250W MH( i had tried use just T5 or MH)
i run T5 11K 10 hours a day, actinic 14 hours. MH for 1 hour(at night, 8-9)
1 MH give me richer color for all my SPS. since i only run them at night and only 1 hour. no heat problem.






all started with 1" frags. 2-8 months growth.

[Stlouphil]

Uh, Oh. Here it goes. The initial volley has been fired. Everyone run for the hills. Hope there is no collateral damage.

[Covey]

2-super actinics
2-GE daylights
2-Actinic whites (12k)
2-AquaSun (10K)

What I noticed... Decent growth...colors were pale and bland

Decent growth but bland is exactily what I would except out of that bulb combo. Aqua suns are 6.5K to the best of my knowledge. So you had 50% low kevin daylights, 25% 50/50, and 25% the very purple URI actinics.

My story of t-5 and MH

I started with a 29G set it up with a 2 bulb T-5 after about a month when I realized I could keep hardly any fish in a tank that small I upgraded.

My 75G I ended up running a 6 bulb T-5 system. I ran it for 8 months and all I will say of my 75G is that I consider it my practice tank. It did addict me to SPS but it was general not successful. I wouldn't blame the T-5 for any of the problems and they did grow SPS quite well.

Anyway I needed to correct some of the system mistakes I made in the 75G so are a little over a year I upgraded to my current 150G.
I too himed and hawed over what lighting to go with. I ended up with 3x400W 20k XMs. I finally got my act together and learned how to keep acro and things have been good. Solid colors, good growth, and the always satisfing "Ooo can I get a frag of that. That is the frag I bought from you 5 months ago".

All that and I am considering going back to T-5.
My issues:
HEAT HEAT and more HEAT
With 1200W of MH I still don't run a chiller my canopy is open topped and I run two 6" fans. The tank temp only varies 1.5 to 2 a day. The probelm is not the tank temp the problem is my room temp. My AC included in my rent(would hat to see that bill) but it doesn't run during the winter. All of fall and into the mid December my heat never came on. It wasn't until the outside stayed under 20F that my heat started to come on. As a result my room temps for the fall and spring start to get into the mid 70s. I would perfer it cooler and I chiller would do nothing for that.

Electrical cost:
I noticed the jump then again I've got 3 bulbs. I was looking to run the tank on 600W of T-5 versus 1200W of MH so it would save me quite a bit.

Bulb options:
More T-5 bulbs come to market monthly. I perfer a slightly blueish look and there are plenty of those out.

The point sorce thing:
After running T-5 I don't like all the shading issues with a pure MH rig.


If it all doesn't work out I will not be out anything as I was planning a larger tank I could just throw it all over. When I buy a new house.

I'll just have to go in a corner a weep quietily when that power bill shows up.

[Covey]

Like reefgeek said from the start both grow coral and both can be linked to TOTM quality systems.

I think it is useful to hear from people that have used both.

[Big Boy69]

I run a 120 with 8, T-5's and the colors in my tank are awesome. With the bulb combo you have of course it would look the way it did. I run:
4 blue Plus
1 super actinic
1 GE6500K
1 6000K
1 4100K

The colors are awesome and shows good growth. I do not have to run a chiller, but run a fan blowing into the canopy. I can keep the temp at 80°.
y lights are approx 5" above the water.

[reefgeek84]

Originally posted by Covey
2-super actinics
2-GE daylights
2-Actinic whites (12k)
2-AquaSun (10K)

What I noticed... Decent growth...colors were pale and bland

Decent growth but bland is exactily what I would except out of that bulb combo. Aqua suns are 6.5K to the best of my knowledge. So you had 50% low kevin daylights, 25% 50/50, and 25% the very purple URI actinics.

My story of t-5 and MH

I started with a 29G set it up with a 2 bulb T-5 after about a month when I realized I could keep hardly any fish in a tank that small I upgraded.

My 75G I ended up running a 6 bulb T-5 system. I ran it for 8 months and all I will say of my 75G is that I consider it my practice tank. It did addict me to SPS but it was general not successful. I wouldn't blame the T-5 for any of the problems and they did grow SPS quite well.

Anyway I needed to correct some of the system mistakes I made in the 75G so are a little over a year I upgraded to my current 150G.
I too himed and hawed over what lighting to go with. I ended up with 3x400W 20k XMs. I finally got my act together and learned how to keep acro and things have been good. Solid colors, good growth, and the always satisfing "Ooo can I get a frag of that. That is the frag I bought from you 5 months ago".

All that and I am considering going back to T-5.
My issues:
HEAT HEAT and more HEAT
With 1200W of MH I still don't run a chiller my canopy is open topped and I run two 6" fans. The tank temp only varies 1.5 to 2 a day. The probelm is not the tank temp the problem is my room temp. My AC included in my rent(would hat to see that bill) but it doesn't run during the winter. All of fall and into the mid December my heat never came on. It wasn't until the outside stayed under 20F that my heat started to come on. As a result my room temps for the fall and spring start to get into the mid 70s. I would perfer it cooler and I chiller would do nothing for that.

Electrical cost:
I noticed the jump then again I've got 3 bulbs. I was looking to run the tank on 600W of T-5 versus 1200W of MH so it would save me quite a bit.

Bulb options:
More T-5 bulbs come to market monthly. I perfer a slightly blueish look and there are plenty of those out.

The point sorce thing:
After running T-5 I don't like all the shading issues with a pure MH rig.


If it all doesn't work out I will not be out anything as I was planning a larger tank I could just throw it all over. When I buy a new house.

I'll just have to go in a corner a weep quietily when that power bill shows up.

The aqua suns are not 6.5k, the day lights are...the aqua sun are 10k's...I played with many bulb combos, more blue and what not, it was not what I wanted.

as for the chiller not helping room temp. I noticed the opposite...once my tank got up to about 84 degrees, the humidity went through the roof...and my room was uncomfortable. However I keep the tank temp at 82 degrees, and it is perfect in my house (800 sq ft. apartment). If you like it below 70 degrees, that is cold in general, most people keep their homes at 72-74 degrees. I can assure you that you will have higher room temp at with t-5's I did, that is why i needed a chiller. Another thing is that I have never turned on my heater because both sets of lights kept it warm enough in the apartment.

600w's more would be an extra 15 or so bucks a month. Not that big of a difference to me...

again all in the eyes of the beholder when it comes to this...

[reefgeek84]

Originally posted by Stlouphil
Uh, Oh. Here it goes. The initial volley has been fired. Everyone run for the hills. Hope there is no collateral damage.

No I am not debating anything...like I said a couple of times they will both grow SPS well...I just wanted to give my point of view since I have ran both.

Since most people run either or and take all their knowledge from what others have said.

[reefgeek84]

Originally posted by Big Boy69
I run a 120 with 8, T-5's and the colors in my tank are awesome. With the bulb combo you have of course it would look the way it did. I run:
4 blue Plus
1 super actinic
1 GE6500K
1 6000K
1 4100K

The colors are awesome and shows good growth. I do not have to run a chiller, but run a fan blowing into the canopy. I can keep the temp at 80°.
y lights are approx 5" above the water.

Again, all in the eyes of the beholder...I also did not say they did not grow sps, i said they did it well.

I just think that florescent bulbs are to pastel.

[reefgeek84]

Originally posted by ClownNut
i am running 4 T5HO with 2 250W MH( i had tried use just T5 or MH)
i run T5 11K 10 hours a day, actinic 14 hours. MH for 1 hour(at night, 8-9)
1 MH give me richer color for all my SPS. since i only run them at night and only 1 hour. no heat problem.

That is my point I think the metal halide give its much richer color and that is what matters to me....

[Covey]

Unless you where think the AquaBlue the Sun is a 6K bulb
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merch...ode=SunlightT5

[reefgeek84]

Originally posted by Covey
Unless you where think the AquaBlue the Sun is a 6K bulb
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merch...ode=SunlightT5

Sorry for the confusion...I was running URI/UV bulbs
http://www.reefgeek.com/lighting/T5_...by_UV_Lighting

[PUGroyale]

Good thread... thanks for posting it

It's much more helpful to those making lighting choices to hear from people who have run both systems instead of arguments from fanboy's of MH or T-5.

[highquality]

I think more pictures of the tanks that are claimed to have great color would help. thanks

[reefgeek84]

Originally posted by highquality
I think more pictures of the tanks that are claimed to have great color would help. thanks

In theroy this is great...however pics can be skewed with handy programs. Plus color does not come through well in pics...but I will try to get a couple of comparison photos together.

[jamesdawson]

I use both because I think their are strengths and weaknesses for each.

However, IMHO and IME (I own 2), Teklights are the biggest piece of junk to every masquerade as a "quality" or "high-end" aquarium light fixture.

They have already been proven by Grim to put out HALF the par of an equivalant wattage ATI fixture. We know from european tanks that T-5s can grow corals as well as MH and provide fantastic coloring.

I think when the ATI and other real quality T-5 fixtures become more widely distributed in the U.S., American reefers will realize the same. Also Sanjay is going to start testing them so we will have hard numbers to compare.

James

[reefdood]

I'm oldschool. You can take my halides when you pry them from my sunburnt hands.

[Icefire]

Originally posted by hahnmeister
This mix matches my pheonix 14,000K almost perfectly (two tanks on the same stand, you can see in my gallery)...
2xaquablue
2xblue+
2xtrue actinic03
...no midday or sun bulbs if you like the bluer 14,000K look (like a pheonix more than a ushio 14,000K). These bulbs add too much yellow for the look.
6 bulbs is perfect for a 75g, 4 is cutting it thin.
FWIW, corals love the combo I use. Many of my corals have never looked so sharp.

[ralphie16]

as for lighting up my tank i skimmed through a lot of threads, got BORED real quickly, and saw for the most part both t5 and metal halides were good. so what did i do? i bought a combo fixture.

best of both worlds, and i can stop thinking about this finally.

you would think i can go enjoy my tank now right? nooooo, now there's tons of other crap to worry about with the tank, but at least this is one thing i dont have to worry about for the next couple of years until we get some crazy laser lighting invented.

why dont you guys just get the combo fixtures? easy enough no?

[sjm817]

2-super actinics
2-GE daylights
2-Actinic whites (12k)
2-AquaSun (10K)

That would be a very washed out look IMO. Too many white bulbs.

[reefgeek84]

Originally posted by jamesdawson
I use both because I think their are strengths and weaknesses for each.

However, IMHO and IME (I own 2), Teklights are the biggest piece of junk to every masquerade as a "quality" or "high-end" aquarium light fixture.

They have already been proven by Grim to put out HALF the par of an equivalant wattage ATI fixture. We know from european tanks that T-5s can grow corals as well as MH and provide fantastic coloring.

I think when the ATI and other real quality T-5 fixtures become more widely distributed in the U.S., American reefers will realize the same. Also Sanjay is going to start testing them so we will have hard numbers to compare.

James

Does no one read my post...I never said they both can not grow corals...apparently people are missing that, I said they grow corals very well...I just do not like the pastel color they had on the coral. So people like that some people do not. Just like some people like 20k halide bulbs and others only like 14k, again it is all preference.

I am not arguing anything here, I just wanted people to hear from someone who used both and their thoughts.

[reefgeek84]

Originally posted by sjm817
2-super actinics
2-GE daylights
2-Actinic whites (12k)
2-AquaSun (10K)

That would be a very washed out look IMO. Too many white bulbs.

Not really...colors were still pastel...10k halide bulbs make the corals color more intense...

[keeperofthefish]

I am a T5 user, but an MH believer!

I have run two different T5 rigs on my 75--first a 5x54w Aquactinics with many different bulb combos, then a 4x54w IceCap driven IceCap slr rig with 2xSuper Actinic VHOs on another IceCap ballast. The IceCap setup is slightly better (not that much, though), and the superactinic VHOs do blow away the T5 actinics in terms of the pop they give corals.

The bottomline is that if not for heat and electricity costs (I'm in a small apartment and my utilities are included, so I don't my landlord to raise an eyebrow with a big cost), I'd definltely go with MH. I have seen many tanks using both, and I've never seen in person a T5 tank that even approaches some of the MH tanks I've seen. It's a matter of color--not necessarily growth.

So while I appreciate all the discussion of T5s on these boards--most of them based on European systems using lighting we cannot even purchase in the US or that are ridiculously expensive--I would recommend to anyone with the option to go MH to go that way. I applaud this thread and I am sick of T5 mafia descending on those who disagree.

I also think that the best systems are a combo of both T5 and MH. I think we OVERRUN our MH typically and clownnut has made a great point and observation about this above. I know a serious local reef aquarist who is a previous TOTM winner on RC who now only runs his MH 6 hours a day and runs about 6 superactinic VHO bulbs for 12 full hours and has gorgeous growth and color. We need to think seriously about this... A better option for all of us may be a short time running MH and then going with T5s for the typical 10-12 hour photoperiod.

[reefgeek84]

Originally posted by ralphie16
as for lighting up my tank i skimmed through a lot of threads, got BORED real quickly, and saw for the most part both t5 and metal halides were good. so what did i do? i bought a combo fixture.

best of both worlds, and i can stop thinking about this finally.

you would think i can go enjoy my tank now right? nooooo, now there's tons of other crap to worry about with the tank, but at least this is one thing i dont have to worry about for the next couple of years until we get some crazy laser lighting invented.

why dont you guys just get the combo fixtures? easy enough no?

I do not want a fixture, they are way to much money...for the cost of one of these, you could get a halide retro set up and have alot of money for coral. Plus most combo fixtures are DE not SE, I want SE bigger area of coverage.

[jag1979]

"I also think that the best systems are a combo of both T5 and MH. I think we OVERRUN our MH typically and clownnut has made a great point and observation about this above. I know a serious local reef aquarist who is a previous TOTM winner on RC who now only runs his MH 6 hours a day and runs about 6 superactinic VHO bulbs for 12 full hours and has gorgeous growth and color. We need to think seriously about this... A better option for all of us may be a short time running MH and then going with T5s for the typical 10-12 hour photoperiod."

thats what I do, I like it so far but my tanks only a few months old