Return pump went out! **EMERGENCY**

doowain9999 · 02/19/2007, 10:06 PM

I have a 72 gallon bowfront. I just returned home to find that at some point today my return pump from my sump went out. My heater is located down there, so now my water in my tank is 72 degrees. I ran as fast as I could to my local Walmart (geez) because everything else is closed, but they didn't have any pumps in their aquarium section (what gives?).

So, I hurried back home and put a 150W heater and I moved my 300W heater from my sump into my tank. I have two powerheads moving the water around. Still waiting for the temp to rise.

My tank is stocked with

2 ocellaris clowns
1 blue damsel
1 dragon goby
1 4" powder blue tang (1 week old! but fat and eating well)

pom pom xenia (not looking too hot)
toadstool (not looking good)
torch coral (looking fine)
open brain (fine)
several colonies of zoas (fine)
star polyps (fine)
brown button polyps (fine)

I'm REALLY worried about my tang. He seems fine, but I'm just fearing the worst.

Is there anything else I can do? Water change with warmer water?

Please HELP!!!

kaihonu82 · 02/19/2007, 10:12 PM

i'm no expert, but i wouldn't stress them further by rapidly raising the temp either.....but at 72, I hope everything comes out okay

mrbill70 · 02/19/2007, 10:14 PM

It shouldn't take that long for the tank to come up ~5 degrees into the realm of normalcy with those two heaters (especially since you have the powerheads running). If it was me I wouldn't bother with the hot water changes. I'm sure it would be the fastest way of raising the tank temperature, but it wouldn't exactly be nice and uniform. Raising the ambient air temperature isn't going to do a whole lot either. I would just wait.

USC-fan · 02/19/2007, 10:15 PM

You might be able to the find a pump in garden section.

petoonia · 02/19/2007, 10:18 PM

Slowly raise the temp. Keep your powerheads going, and you should be ok until tomorrow. Once the temp is back up to normal it might not hurt to do a small water change.

A little advice.... get a back up for everything your tank relies on.

Good luck I hope everything makes it!!!!

doowain9999 · 02/19/2007, 10:21 PM

I will definitely do that! I just set this pump up in Oct/Nov so I didn't expect it to go bad all of the sudden. Live and learn.

Thanks!

petoonia · 02/19/2007, 11:04 PM

Let us know how everything turns out!!

I hope it's all ok!!!!

lotsofgallons · 02/19/2007, 11:04 PM

just for reference what kind of pump was it?

Frick-n-Frags · 02/19/2007, 11:28 PM

^(good Q)

Fortunately, about the only thing that does go through quick swings in the real reef is temp so you need not worry since you haven't cooled to lethal temps yet. the gradual cooling and now gradual reheating are absolutely no big deal.

As long as you have circulation for gas exchange, which it sounds like you are covered, you should have no problem.

also, think about the temp in the sump water ie, maybe put a ph and the little heater down there so you don't blast the upstairs with 60Âº water when you fire it up. that may be pushing it

also, how did your pump fail?
clean?
fiery black greasy funky spewage blech?

just wondering about the possibility of not even keeping the sump water if the pump failed "dirty", if not should be OK

I had an old oil filled little giant that exxon valdezed my sump once and you've heard like the RIO stories etc so just covering bases of things to consider..which brings us right back around to lotso's Q

leeweber85 · 02/19/2007, 11:29 PM

Last week my GFCI tripped and my tank went all night and morning with no power. The temp dropped to 63 and it took the entire day for it to come up to a reasonable temperature. Everything was fine... fish, sps, lps, zoas, toadstool, xenia.. I think you will be alright. Don't raise it too quickly.

Frick-n-Frags · 02/19/2007, 11:36 PM

We probably have no idea what heinous temp profile most reef critters survive just getting to our tanks.

doowain9999 · 02/19/2007, 11:50 PM

Thanks for all this guys. Makes me feel a lot better. Temp is up to 76 and everyone is still acting fine. Xenia and toadstool still aren't happy, but we'll see tomorrow.

Don't know what happened with the pump. It's a Beauty (?) 33W 2200 l/hr pump. Don't know much about it as I inherited this tank. Probably should have seen this coming. Things were going too well.

It failed "clean". Water in sump is still fine. Although, thanks for reminding me to get the little heater down there. I don't have a powerhead for it, but I've just left my skimmer running to keep things stirred up. This should be OK I'd assume.

Frick-n-Frags · 02/19/2007, 11:56 PM

yeah, just thinking about some water motion for the heater down there.....

sounds like tragedy averted.

spare heater is another good spare to have

corals b 4 bills · 02/20/2007, 12:38 AM

It sounds to me it was a mag drive (POND) pump only to be used in fresh water, probably took this long for the internal parts to rust solid. buy two good pumps (mag drive for salt water is good) I have three mag 18's for back up 8 heaters and 8 power heads just in case the tank leaks and everyone needs to be placed in a tub until another replacement will arrive. this is a hobby of redundancy, always have carbon, salt water made for emergency, and back up power supply (marine battery, aps, generator ect.) the biggest fear you will find when you walk into your home is darkness and silence.

melev · 02/20/2007, 03:02 AM

Now that you've got the temp back up where it needs to be, remove one heater. Normally 3w per gallon is sufficient, and with 450w of heater in the 72g, there's a risk of another accident - cooking the tank.

The water in the sump will be colder so heat it up before you resume the pump. For now put a powerhead in there to keep that water from becoming stagnant.

I always recommend back up pumps, so you can just reach in the closet and get another one out if your main pump fails. This is pretty important, as you figured out today.

guy poppe · 02/20/2007, 06:26 AM

I totally agree with Frigs n Frags that a slow drop in temperature is nothing to worry about. I keep my tank at room temperature (70 degrees) The lfs is at 73.

Remember that tide pools undergo dramatic temperature changes with all sorts of critters living there.

What would concern me is a sudden drop, but 77 gallons would take a long time to change.

So I don't think it is a wise idea to power up a bunch of heaters at full blast.

Regards

Guy Poppe

doowain9999 · 02/20/2007, 08:35 AM

Temp is a steady 78 degrees currently and everything seems to be OK. We'll see this afternoon when my lights go on.

I'm headed to the LFS after work to pick up a mag pump. What size should I get with this size tank? How much turnover do I want? Like I said before, the pump that was on it was pushing 2200 l/hr.

Thanks.

HDAlien · 02/20/2007, 11:41 AM

72 isn't too bad at all, I wouldn't worry too much about it, just bring the temp up slowly as others have said.

bnmir · 02/20/2007, 11:52 AM

In a pinch, I've used a big powerhead and tubing to keep some water circulating from the sump to the tank.

melev · 02/20/2007, 12:01 PM

A Mag 5 or Mag 7 would suffice. Be sure to use 1" plumbing to get enough flow from that pump, which has 1/2" threads. Using 1/2" plumbing will restrict that pump too much.

doowain9999 · 02/20/2007, 04:34 PM

My return is 3/4". I stopped by Ace and got a 1/2" to 3/4" converter. That should be good, right?

melev · 02/20/2007, 04:55 PM

It would be better to go to 1" up to the bulkhead and reduce, but 3/4" will is still better than .5". I try to keep the full pressure going as far as I can and reduce where I must.

doowain9999 · 02/20/2007, 05:14 PM

Well, it's running through a UV sterilizer. The intake on that is 3/4".

melev · 02/20/2007, 05:24 PM

Go with that then.

BONDQ · 02/27/2007, 01:46 PM

Might be a good idea to have a spare return pump on hand for next time.

Can save you alot of stress next go around.

02/19/2007, 10:06 PM	#1
doowain9999 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 261	Return pump went out! EMERGENCY I have a 72 gallon bowfront. I just returned home to find that at some point today my return pump from my sump went out. My heater is located down there, so now my water in my tank is 72 degrees. I ran as fast as I could to my local Walmart (geez) because everything else is closed, but they didn't have any pumps in their aquarium section (what gives?). So, I hurried back home and put a 150W heater and I moved my 300W heater from my sump into my tank. I have two powerheads moving the water around. Still waiting for the temp to rise. My tank is stocked with 2 ocellaris clowns 1 blue damsel 1 dragon goby 1 4" powder blue tang (1 week old! but fat and eating well) pom pom xenia (not looking too hot) toadstool (not looking good) torch coral (looking fine) open brain (fine) several colonies of zoas (fine) star polyps (fine) brown button polyps (fine) I'm REALLY worried about my tang. He seems fine, but I'm just fearing the worst. Is there anything else I can do? Water change with warmer water? Please HELP!!!

02/19/2007, 10:12 PM	#2
kaihonu82 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: bay area, ca Posts: 454	i'm no expert, but i wouldn't stress them further by rapidly raising the temp either.....but at 72, I hope everything comes out okay __________________ lindsay

02/19/2007, 10:18 PM	#5
petoonia HereWeGoAgain... Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,648	Slowly raise the temp. Keep your powerheads going, and you should be ok until tomorrow. Once the temp is back up to normal it might not hurt to do a small water change. A little advice.... get a back up for everything your tank relies on. Good luck I hope everything makes it!!!! __________________ I've been in the hobby for about 10 years....(so I know a little bit)...(but not all that much).... Current Tank Info: 58G. Oceanic (Starphire). Mixed Reef

02/19/2007, 11:04 PM	#7
petoonia HereWeGoAgain... Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,648	Let us know how everything turns out!! I hope it's all ok!!!! __________________ I've been in the hobby for about 10 years....(so I know a little bit)...(but not all that much).... Current Tank Info: 58G. Oceanic (Starphire). Mixed Reef

02/19/2007, 11:28 PM	#9
Frick-n-Frags Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: north central OH Posts: 10,740	^(good Q) Fortunately, about the only thing that does go through quick swings in the real reef is temp so you need not worry since you haven't cooled to lethal temps yet. the gradual cooling and now gradual reheating are absolutely no big deal. As long as you have circulation for gas exchange, which it sounds like you are covered, you should have no problem. also, think about the temp in the sump water ie, maybe put a ph and the little heater down there so you don't blast the upstairs with 60Âº water when you fire it up. that may be pushing it also, how did your pump fail? clean? fiery black greasy funky spewage blech? just wondering about the possibility of not even keeping the sump water if the pump failed "dirty", if not should be OK I had an old oil filled little giant that exxon valdezed my sump once and you've heard like the RIO stories etc so just covering bases of things to consider..which brings us right back around to lotso's Q __________________ Only Dead fish swim with the current. Current Tank Info: 2 50 gal tanks, sump, still BB

02/19/2007, 10:14 PM	#3
mrbill70 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 97	It shouldn't take that long for the tank to come up ~5 degrees into the realm of normalcy with those two heaters (especially since you have the powerheads running). If it was me I wouldn't bother with the hot water changes. I'm sure it would be the fastest way of raising the tank temperature, but it wouldn't exactly be nice and uniform. Raising the ambient air temperature isn't going to do a whole lot either. I would just wait.

02/19/2007, 10:15 PM	#4
USC-fan Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 3,626	You might be able to the find a pump in garden section.

02/19/2007, 10:21 PM	#6
doowain9999 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 261	I will definitely do that! I just set this pump up in Oct/Nov so I didn't expect it to go bad all of the sudden. Live and learn. Thanks!

02/19/2007, 11:04 PM	#8
lotsofgallons Moved On Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: florida Posts: 249	just for reference what kind of pump was it?

02/19/2007, 11:29 PM	#10
leeweber85 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa Posts: 2,482	Last week my GFCI tripped and my tank went all night and morning with no power. The temp dropped to 63 and it took the entire day for it to come up to a reasonable temperature. Everything was fine... fish, sps, lps, zoas, toadstool, xenia.. I think you will be alright. Don't raise it too quickly. __________________ -Lee Current Tank Info: 120g reef, 20g reef

02/19/2007, 11:36 PM	#11
Frick-n-Frags Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: north central OH Posts: 10,740	We probably have no idea what heinous temp profile most reef critters survive just getting to our tanks. __________________ Only Dead fish swim with the current. Current Tank Info: 2 50 gal tanks, sump, still BB

02/19/2007, 11:50 PM	#12
doowain9999 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 261	Thanks for all this guys. Makes me feel a lot better. Temp is up to 76 and everyone is still acting fine. Xenia and toadstool still aren't happy, but we'll see tomorrow. Don't know what happened with the pump. It's a Beauty (?) 33W 2200 l/hr pump. Don't know much about it as I inherited this tank. Probably should have seen this coming. Things were going too well. It failed "clean". Water in sump is still fine. Although, thanks for reminding me to get the little heater down there. I don't have a powerhead for it, but I've just left my skimmer running to keep things stirred up. This should be OK I'd assume.

02/19/2007, 11:56 PM	#13
Frick-n-Frags Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: north central OH Posts: 10,740	yeah, just thinking about some water motion for the heater down there..... sounds like tragedy averted. spare heater is another good spare to have __________________ Only Dead fish swim with the current. Current Tank Info: 2 50 gal tanks, sump, still BB

02/20/2007, 12:38 AM	#14
corals b 4 bills Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: San Francisco Bay Area (Belmont). Posts: 2,381	It sounds to me it was a mag drive (POND) pump only to be used in fresh water, probably took this long for the internal parts to rust solid. buy two good pumps (mag drive for salt water is good) I have three mag 18's for back up 8 heaters and 8 power heads just in case the tank leaks and everyone needs to be placed in a tub until another replacement will arrive. this is a hobby of redundancy, always have carbon, salt water made for emergency, and back up power supply (marine battery, aps, generator ect.) the biggest fear you will find when you walk into your home is darkness and silence. __________________ Reefkeeper - (ref-ke-per) n: Individual obsessed with placing disturbing amounts of electricity and seawater in close proximity for the purpose of maintaining live coral reef organisms. Current Tank Info: 29 gallon Bio Cube, HQI 150 watt Nanotuner~Vortech MP10W ES~Arctica Chiller~AC II~Tunze Osmolator ATO~ Tunze 9002 skimmer W/In Tank Cup~ Korallin Reactor W/PH Monitor~ Korallin Denitrator~APC Back-up~Phosban/Carbon Reactor.

02/20/2007, 03:02 AM	#15
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	Now that you've got the temp back up where it needs to be, remove one heater. Normally 3w per gallon is sufficient, and with 450w of heater in the 72g, there's a risk of another accident - cooking the tank. The water in the sump will be colder so heat it up before you resume the pump. For now put a powerhead in there to keep that water from becoming stagnant. I always recommend back up pumps, so you can just reach in the closet and get another one out if your main pump fails. This is pretty important, as you figured out today.

02/20/2007, 06:26 AM	#16
guy poppe Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 4	I totally agree with Frigs n Frags that a slow drop in temperature is nothing to worry about. I keep my tank at room temperature (70 degrees) The lfs is at 73. Remember that tide pools undergo dramatic temperature changes with all sorts of critters living there. What would concern me is a sudden drop, but 77 gallons would take a long time to change. So I don't think it is a wise idea to power up a bunch of heaters at full blast. Regards Guy Poppe

02/20/2007, 08:35 AM	#17
doowain9999 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 261	Temp is a steady 78 degrees currently and everything seems to be OK. We'll see this afternoon when my lights go on. I'm headed to the LFS after work to pick up a mag pump. What size should I get with this size tank? How much turnover do I want? Like I said before, the pump that was on it was pushing 2200 l/hr. Thanks.

02/20/2007, 11:41 AM	#18
HDAlien Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 476	72 isn't too bad at all, I wouldn't worry too much about it, just bring the temp up slowly as others have said. __________________ ¡ʞuɐʇ ʎɯ ǝʌo1 ı Current Tank Info: 220 gal. reef

02/20/2007, 11:52 AM	#19
bnmir Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 269	recirc In a pinch, I've used a big powerhead and tubing to keep some water circulating from the sump to the tank.

02/20/2007, 12:01 PM	#20
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	A Mag 5 or Mag 7 would suffice. Be sure to use 1" plumbing to get enough flow from that pump, which has 1/2" threads. Using 1/2" plumbing will restrict that pump too much.

02/20/2007, 04:34 PM	#21
doowain9999 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 261	My return is 3/4". I stopped by Ace and got a 1/2" to 3/4" converter. That should be good, right?

02/20/2007, 04:55 PM	#22
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	It would be better to go to 1" up to the bulkhead and reduce, but 3/4" will is still better than .5". I try to keep the full pressure going as far as I can and reduce where I must.

02/20/2007, 05:14 PM	#23
doowain9999 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 261	Well, it's running through a UV sterilizer. The intake on that is 3/4".

02/20/2007, 05:24 PM	#24
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	Go with that then.

02/27/2007, 01:46 PM	#25
BONDQ Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: So CA Posts: 621	Might be a good idea to have a spare return pump on hand for next time. Can save you alot of stress next go around.