Are Anglefish Bullies?

ralphie16 · 02/20/2007, 09:03 AM

I have had my eye on a Chaetodontoplus meridithii (Personifer Angelfish) for quite some time now. I was hoping for someon with personal experience to chime in.

What is the differenc between a male and female. Published references state that the only difference is size, but many retailers charge more for the male. Why? For example, the crosshatch trigger male commands a higher price then the female, but only because the large males have beautiful colors that are unique to the large males only.

Are these fish bullies? Most references say they bully similar fish in the genus and similar species. Would they bully established butterflyfish or are they too delicate for angels?

What are some tank inhabitants you have living with your Personifier? What foods have you had success with? How large was it when you got it? How doe sit behave with other fish? This is going to be the last fish introduced to my tank but I want to make sure he will be ok with a butterfly and two puffers.

Kahuna Tuna · 02/20/2007, 09:30 AM

I've never kept this fish but was interested for a time in keeping one of these and have done a lot of research. The males are typically the largest ones available and have the blue mask on the face. Big males are rare and thus the high price tag. Most all of the meredithi's I've seen in So Cal are juvies or sub adults/females. I dont know a lot about their physiology but it would seem the are like a lot of angel species in that all of the small ones are female and the largest ones turn into males and form a pair bond or a harem.

As far as the bullying goes I'm quite sure they are like a lot of angels in that it really is a mixed bag with some individuals becoming aggressive and others being great community fish. I see you have butterflies and in my limited experience with BF's I have found that most big angels dont like them very much and are likely to bully them. What species of BF do you have?

As far as diet goes I have fed all of my angels a good mixture of meaty seafoods and lots of marine greens and give them a lot of variety. I feed my current fish PE mysis, formula 1, 2, and angel formula, blood worms, fortified brine, spirulina flake, nori almost daily, and new life spectrum pellets. I have found that the new life is readily eaten by angels and I have seen some pretty amazing anecdotal evidence that people who feed this food are successfully keeping some very hard to keep fish like regal angels, moorish idols, ect. I keep a flagfin which are very touchy fish and he loves this food. HTH

Cord · 02/20/2007, 06:56 PM

Ralphie, how big is your tank? I suppose if your tank is small, the fish would be more likely to be territorial.

ralphie16 · 02/21/2007, 01:44 PM

its a 6' 125 gallon tank

fishman2006 · 02/21/2007, 02:23 PM

what kind of butterfly and puffers do you have?

ralphie16 · 02/22/2007, 01:36 PM

~3" porcupine puffer
~3" panda puffer
~4" teardrop butterfly (scott michaels writes this BFF is able to handle himself very well with more boisterous tankmates)

both puffers have been model citizens since i got them

KuanTi · 02/22/2007, 09:55 PM

Personifer's are awsome fish. I've had two before. They're not exactly the hardiest, but they're interesting nonetheless. as far as bullying goes, i've never actually seen it pick on a fish at all or cause any trouble. Its very important to f/w dip it or some other dip. If you have a QT tank, that'd be the best. They get ich and velvet a lot easier than other angels, atleast that i've noticed. Just feed them a variety of foods, just like you would any other angel. Scribbled are nice too, but the personifer is my favorite angel, you should definitely try to get one. If you can find one thats acclimated you'll have better chances of its survival.

cunningham · 02/22/2007, 11:29 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ralphie16
[B]I have had my eye on a Chaetodontoplus meridithii (Personifer Angelfish) for quite some time now. I was hoping for someon with personal experience to chime in.

What is the differenc between a male and female. Published references state that the only difference is size, but many retailers charge more for the male. Why? For example, the crosshatch trigger male commands a higher price then the female, but only because the large males have beautiful colors that are unique to the large males only.

the male personifer has a awesome looking face with spots, the female is pretty, but the male is a nicer looking fish and not as available as the female

ralphie16 · 02/23/2007, 08:46 AM

Cunningham,

They are all thought to be females as juveniles, with the adult color formation happening about the 4" mark. I have not read that females and males have a significant difference in their color and patterns. Where did you hear this? Did you see the differences in person? Not doubting you, I just want to learn about this species as much as I can.

KuanTi · 02/23/2007, 11:46 AM

its a commonly accepted notion that males and females difffer in color like the scribbled angel. the males are said to have the more distinct purple face and yellow spots. and the females have a less vibrant face. but who knows. i just know that some wholesalers require the purchase of up to 6 "females" in order to be allowed to purchase a "male", sometmes they dont even list male personifers on their stocklists and only offer them to their favorite customers. Reason i know that is cuz i'm trying to track one down, i dont want to order it online, cuz for that much, i wanna see it in person.

02/20/2007, 09:03 AM	#1
ralphie16 Moved On Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,550	Are Anglefish Bullies? I have had my eye on a Chaetodontoplus meridithii (Personifer Angelfish) for quite some time now. I was hoping for someon with personal experience to chime in. What is the differenc between a male and female. Published references state that the only difference is size, but many retailers charge more for the male. Why? For example, the crosshatch trigger male commands a higher price then the female, but only because the large males have beautiful colors that are unique to the large males only. Are these fish bullies? Most references say they bully similar fish in the genus and similar species. Would they bully established butterflyfish or are they too delicate for angels? What are some tank inhabitants you have living with your Personifier? What foods have you had success with? How large was it when you got it? How doe sit behave with other fish? This is going to be the last fish introduced to my tank but I want to make sure he will be ok with a butterfly and two puffers.

02/20/2007, 09:30 AM	#2
Kahuna Tuna Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Arizona Posts: 2,587	I've never kept this fish but was interested for a time in keeping one of these and have done a lot of research. The males are typically the largest ones available and have the blue mask on the face. Big males are rare and thus the high price tag. Most all of the meredithi's I've seen in So Cal are juvies or sub adults/females. I dont know a lot about their physiology but it would seem the are like a lot of angel species in that all of the small ones are female and the largest ones turn into males and form a pair bond or a harem. As far as the bullying goes I'm quite sure they are like a lot of angels in that it really is a mixed bag with some individuals becoming aggressive and others being great community fish. I see you have butterflies and in my limited experience with BF's I have found that most big angels dont like them very much and are likely to bully them. What species of BF do you have? As far as diet goes I have fed all of my angels a good mixture of meaty seafoods and lots of marine greens and give them a lot of variety. I feed my current fish PE mysis, formula 1, 2, and angel formula, blood worms, fortified brine, spirulina flake, nori almost daily, and new life spectrum pellets. I have found that the new life is readily eaten by angels and I have seen some pretty amazing anecdotal evidence that people who feed this food are successfully keeping some very hard to keep fish like regal angels, moorish idols, ect. I keep a flagfin which are very touchy fish and he loves this food. HTH __________________ "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." -George Washington Current Tank Info: No tank currently

02/22/2007, 11:29 PM	#8
cunningham Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Fountain Valley, CA. Posts: 833	Re: Are Anglefish Bullies? [QUOTE]Originally posted by ralphie16 [B]I have had my eye on a Chaetodontoplus meridithii (Personifer Angelfish) for quite some time now. I was hoping for someon with personal experience to chime in. What is the differenc between a male and female. Published references state that the only difference is size, but many retailers charge more for the male. Why? For example, the crosshatch trigger male commands a higher price then the female, but only because the large males have beautiful colors that are unique to the large males only. the male personifer has a awesome looking face with spots, the female is pretty, but the male is a nicer looking fish and not as available as the female

02/20/2007, 06:56 PM	#3
Cord Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: California Posts: 125	Ralphie, how big is your tank? I suppose if your tank is small, the fish would be more likely to be territorial.

02/21/2007, 01:44 PM	#4
ralphie16 Moved On Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,550	its a 6' 125 gallon tank

02/21/2007, 02:23 PM	#5
fishman2006 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 69	what kind of butterfly and puffers do you have?

02/22/2007, 01:36 PM	#6
ralphie16 Moved On Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,550	~3" porcupine puffer ~3" panda puffer ~4" teardrop butterfly (scott michaels writes this BFF is able to handle himself very well with more boisterous tankmates) both puffers have been model citizens since i got them

02/22/2007, 09:55 PM	#7
KuanTi Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: San Francisco Posts: 299	Personifer's are awsome fish. I've had two before. They're not exactly the hardiest, but they're interesting nonetheless. as far as bullying goes, i've never actually seen it pick on a fish at all or cause any trouble. Its very important to f/w dip it or some other dip. If you have a QT tank, that'd be the best. They get ich and velvet a lot easier than other angels, atleast that i've noticed. Just feed them a variety of foods, just like you would any other angel. Scribbled are nice too, but the personifer is my favorite angel, you should definitely try to get one. If you can find one thats acclimated you'll have better chances of its survival.

02/23/2007, 08:46 AM	#9
ralphie16 Moved On Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,550	Cunningham, They are all thought to be females as juveniles, with the adult color formation happening about the 4" mark. I have not read that females and males have a significant difference in their color and patterns. Where did you hear this? Did you see the differences in person? Not doubting you, I just want to learn about this species as much as I can.

02/23/2007, 11:46 AM	#10
KuanTi Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: San Francisco Posts: 299	its a commonly accepted notion that males and females difffer in color like the scribbled angel. the males are said to have the more distinct purple face and yellow spots. and the females have a less vibrant face. but who knows. i just know that some wholesalers require the purchase of up to 6 "females" in order to be allowed to purchase a "male", sometmes they dont even list male personifers on their stocklists and only offer them to their favorite customers. Reason i know that is cuz i'm trying to track one down, i dont want to order it online, cuz for that much, i wanna see it in person.