Help! Is this flatworms? or what?

[jwheeler]

These little red things are starting to take over my tank. Giving a description I was told it could be flatworms. So I got around today to take some pics, on my website: http://mysite.verizon.net/respuh46/

Take a look and let me know. Thanks!

[dga]

yep. flatworms...

[JR719]

Yes, they will multiply rapidly. Give Flatworm Exit a try.

[Bebo77]

oh yes... you can dip your acros as well but it looks like you may have a bunch of them....

[ssbreef]

thats one hell of an infestation!!

[melev]

2.5meg pictures?

Yes, they are flatworms. You need to siphon them out every day, sucking out as many as you can find, for 14 days before treating the tank with Flatworm eXit. Using some rigid and flexible airline tubing, you can suck them out into a nearby bucket without wasting a lot of water.

I've got a page about them on my site, located in the left column on the Reef Log page.

[jwheeler]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by melev
[B]2.5meg pictures?

Yes, 2.5mb pics Marc My computer is temp setup and I don't have any photo editing software on here, so it came straight from the camera to website. Reinstalling new hardware and windows Friday.

Thanks for the positive ID. I will start to siphon them out as soon as I can get on my feet. Had surgery on both feet last week.

Do I need to do a large water change after I use the flatworm exit? If so how many gallons on a 180g?

Thanks for the help!

[SDguy]

In addition to Marc's suggestions, I would consider doing a little experiment to see what dose is necessary to completely kill them. Lots of people have posted on RC how the FWE kills most, but some survive, and repopulate. I would suck out a bunch into a known volume of water. Add the FWE and stir. Keep doing this until all FW are dead. Determine what abount of FWE this would be for your system volume, add 10-20% more for good measure, and dose.

IMO, people are timid with this stuff, and therefore don't dose enough the first time. I think this selectively weeds out the weak ones, leaving these somewhat resistent survivors that repopulate the tank.

[jwheeler]

Errgh, math....So lets say I have 5g of water and a bunch of flatworms in it. Say I drop in a tablespoon of FWE in the 5g, it kills all of the flatworms. So I would take 180g divided by 5, which is 36, then I would need to put 36 tablespoons of FWE in the main display?
Is that what your saying SDguy?

I don't know the measurement of FWE that you use, just made up the tablespoon as an example.

[badonkadonk]

FWE comes in a little dropper bottle - the recommended dosage is 4 drops per 5 gallons, which worked for me. But as others mentioned, you could do some pre-treatment testing to find whether that dose is enough. Just have plenty of carbon ready to go in a canister filter, you want to get that stuff out of the water ASAP as soon as the buggers start flying around the tank. Mine were killed practically as soon as the FWE hit the tank (I added mine to the return intake of the sump). And be sure to use a filter sock or something like that to catch the dead flatworms. Move your powerheads around in the tank to blow off any of the dead flatworms, you want to get them out of there as they leak toxic juices. And do a large water change shortly after treatment, replace the carbon with fresh after a day or so, then more water changes. The FWE is very specific, but it does seem to make my snails a bit "loopy" and other creatures seem to stress for a day or so (though my fish didn't seem to be bothered at all), so you don't want to add any more of a dose than you have to. And be ready with the paricle filtration, carbon, and water changes!

[SDguy]

Originally posted by jwheeler
Errgh, math....So lets say I have 5g of water and a bunch of flatworms in it. Say I drop in a tablespoon of FWE in the 5g, it kills all of the flatworms. So I would take 180g divided by 5, which is 36, then I would need to put 36 tablespoons of FWE in the main display?
Is that what your saying SDguy?

I don't know the measurement of FWE that you use, just made up the tablespoon as an example.

Yes, that's what I'm saying, though as badonkadonk (hehe, your screen name makes me laugh) mentioned, go dropwise, not tablespoon wise

I had so few FW, that I didn't even worry about the dead ones causing any problems. No carbon, no water change (which, as I understand it, are more for dead FW chemical removal than FWE removal). Corals were fine. Lost a bristle worm or two, but that's it. Obviously, with the numbers of FW you have, you will want to follow the recommended carbon/water change routine closely. As a biochemist, I have to say how utterly impressed I was with the specificity of this product.

[badonkadonk]

I had the same thoughts about the remarkable specificity of FWE for flatworms, SDguy, like a pcr probe for planaria! I had a heavy infestation, like jwheelers, so wanted to stress the importance of removing/filtering the dead worms/exudates and FWE. My tank looked like a snowstorm of flatworms during treatment, and that after sucking out as many as I could reach.

[cfmx]

Another option is getting either a Fridmani Pseudochromis or Six Line Wrasse. We had them that bad and put those to fish in the tank and they took care of the problem in less then 2-4 weeks and you dont have to worry about the Toxic factor because they eat them and bristle worms. Also the fish are fairly cheap from $15 to 50 at your local LFS or online store.

[SDguy]

Originally posted by badonkadonk
I had the same thoughts about the remarkable specificity of FWE for flatworms, SDguy, like a pcr probe for planaria! I had a heavy infestation, like jwheelers, so wanted to stress the importance of removing/filtering the dead worms/exudates and FWE. My tank looked like a snowstorm of flatworms during treatment, and that after sucking out as many as I could reach.

I know what you mean. I saw just a handful, yet after dosing, there were a few dozen floating around.

PCR probe for planaria...I love it when I'm not the only one with nerd humor

[jwheeler]

thanks for all the pointers.

[Vincerama2]

I used it on my small 10g tank and my big 58g tank. I also siphoned out the bulk of what I could see (lots LOTS more hidden). I used an dosage more than they put on the bottle. In my 58 it worked well. In my 10 I would dose, then run carbon and do a water change...that was a mistake. I dosed the 10g 3 times. The final time I dosed it and then left it for a day before running carbon and doing a water change. My cerith snails fell of the glass (but survived) and some amphipods were swimming around in distress, but after than long dosage, I have no more flatworms and nothing else seems to have died. I even had these tiny free swimming copepods that survived the treatment.

My suggestion is to dose on a day when you can oversee the tank all day. Dose a bit more than what is written on the bottle. I dosed until I saw that all the flatworms in sight were curling up and dying (siphon the dead ones as they float away on their streams of death-mucus). And leave the tank dosed with carbon and freshly mixed saltwater on hand. If anything seems to be in too much distrees, then run the carbon and water change. If not, then try to keep the stuff in the tank for as long as you can stand it.

V

[Radiography14]

yea flatworms .god bless with the treatment

[bohlke]

I would spend LOTS of time vacuuming, I was impatient and had a tank meltdown. Still working on getting my tank back up Have plenty of water ready just in case you need to do a 50% water change to get the toxins out.

[melev]

Originally posted by jwheeler
Errgh, math....So lets say I have 5g of water and a bunch of flatworms in it. Say I drop in a tablespoon of FWE in the 5g, it kills all of the flatworms. So I would take 180g divided by 5, which is 36, then I would need to put 36 tablespoons of FWE in the main display?
Is that what your saying SDguy?

I don't know the measurement of FWE that you use, just made up the tablespoon as an example.

A little more clarifying:

Take 1 gallon of tank water, put in some flatworms. Add one drop, stir and observe. Add a drop, stir and observe. Keep doing this until you know how many drops per gallon are necessary to kill your flatworms. I would suggest you wait 3-5 minutes between adding the next drop.

When you treat your tank, within 15 minutes they will start to die and float in the current on web-like strings. Siphon those out as they die during treatment (with rigid airline tubing) to get them and their toxin out of the tank as quickly as possible.

The filtersock will catch them, but their toxins will release in the water and pass through the sock. Their toxins are what may cause your tank to melt down like the poster above me stated.

The key is swift removal in my humble opinion.

[jwheeler]

When you say tank meltdown, what exactly do you mean? Do to a tightwad wife and health issues, I don't have much in my tank. 1 Wheeler goby, pistol shrimp, 2 cleaner shrimp, assorted snails. Corals I have a huge batch of Xenia, 1 open brain, 1 frogspawn, 1 branching hammer, and a couple small sps frags. When you say tank meltdown, are you talking loosing all corals and fish or just what? If I didn't get all the toxin out, what do I have the chance of loosing? Don't know the affects of this toxin. Still healing from injuries, so not doing anything yet

Thanks guys

[Stafford]

I had a similar amount in my 60g and treated last week. I used the suggested amount and it killed most of the worms that were visible, but they're back a week later.
So I would have to agree with SDguy, use a little more.

[melev]

A meltdown would be a series of losses, similar to the domino-effect. The things that die due to the toxin release ammonia which then causes more deaths.... It includes corals and fish. You'd have a wipe out if you aren't being careful.

Since your wife is being a tightwad (your words), siphoning them out daily is free.

[bohlke]

Trust me its horrible, you watch things start to die and then you are frantically working to save what you can. After that you get the stench of your now decaying tank filling the house. Siphon, siphon, and siphon again. After you have done this for a couple of weeks its probably safe to treat. I would run carbon while you siphon as well to remove any toxins released while trapping the flatworms. Now when I see a flatworm or two (it helps knowing what to look for) I get ready to treat the tank right away after sucking the visible ones out and I have had no issues. The product really works well if the amount of flatworms is minimal.

Good Luck!

[jwheeler]

Thanks guys

[Jerslev]

Why not use two Scooterblennies - they eat flatworms very quickly - I do not have any flatworms any more after having introduced two such fishes in the tank

jerslev DK