My Urchin died!

Rijinals · 02/28/2007, 01:33 PM

I am really upset, he was a longed spined with blue neon flashes on him. I am gutted. He sat in the corner for the last week not moving, he was not to big and I can not understand whats gone wrong. Everything else in the tank is fine. Last night he looked cool but tonight he lost loads of spines and the body looked like something off a horrer movie!

What happened guys? The water is fine!

bertoni · 03/01/2007, 12:34 PM

How long did you have the animal? What type was it?

papagimp · 03/01/2007, 12:54 PM

I have a diadema setosum, black long spined urchin, with the little neon blue dots as well. It's my second attempt. The first died overnight, couldn't figure that one out, but the second one has done very very well. Does he have enough to feed on?
What exactly where your water test results, specific numbers please. How long did you acclimate him for and how long was he in the tank before this happend?

racrumrine · 03/01/2007, 01:11 PM

Can you post a picture? Do you know for sure he is dead?

The reason I ask is about a couple of weeks ago, I was working on the tank. Later it seemed to spawn. The next day, mine dropped almost all his long spines and he huddled in the back of the rock work.

I wrapped a wad of nori on a rock with a rubber band and put it near him. The first time, he barely touched it.

Nevertheless, I kept putting out more nori for him everyday. Though he didn't move from that spot for more than a week, he was consistently eating it.

Yesterday, I saw him starting to move around again and his spines are growing longer.

I'm crossing my fingers that he'll make a complete recovery.

Best of luck,

Roy

Rijinals · 03/01/2007, 01:55 PM

Its not in the tank anymore, it was 100% dead. It looked inside out, proper horrible site.
I acclimated it for 3 hours, he was in there for 1 week on the back glass eating all my algea. After that boom! Dead! I can not believe it!
I did not manage to get him to crawl over any additional food. Could this have been a problem? How do you feed them?

matasw · 03/01/2007, 02:40 PM

I feed mine nori from the asian grocery store (the stuff they use to make sushi). I just put it in a pair of metal tweezer's and just feed it to him. If you've got enough algae in your tank though they should be able to live off of that.

jmack · 03/01/2007, 04:14 PM

If water quality is poor they lose their spines..did you check your parameters?

papagimp · 03/01/2007, 05:13 PM

Water quality is a big issue, just FYI to some newbies, Urchins were used way back in the day as a means of quality control. Much like miners used caged birds to test for gas in the mines, early reefers used urchins to check water quality. Them dropping all there spines and dropping dead shortly after was a sure sign that their tank was not ready for more delicate inverts and fish.

Sk8r · 03/01/2007, 05:47 PM

THere are a lot of water parameters: there's:
temperature: 80
salinity: 1.025
alkalinity: 8.3 dkh
calcium: 400
magnesium: 1200.
ph: 8.2.
I'd suggest Salifert tests: they give you results in numbers you can log and keep track of, not just colored 'ballpark' estimates that still may be lethal in terms how how fast and deeply they onset. It's water quality that did in the urchin, almost certainly, but probably not a common variety of it.

racrumrine · 03/01/2007, 06:15 PM

Makes sense. The day before mine lost his long spines, I was rearranging stuff in a bare bottom tank and I dumped too much fresh water in a back corner and the detrious back there went flying all around the tank. It caused a mini-storm that lasted a few hours.

The next day, long spines were all over the place and he was hunkering down behind some rocks in the back of the tank.

Fortunately, I think mine is going to make it. I was really worried the first couple of days.

Since he had also spawned, I thought it could be related to that.

Regards,

Roy

Quote:

Originally posted by papagimp
Water quality is a big issue, just FYI to some newbies, Urchins were used way back in the day as a means of quality control. Much like miners used caged birds to test for gas in the mines, early reefers used urchins to check water quality. Them dropping all there spines and dropping dead shortly after was a sure sign that their tank was not ready for more delicate inverts and fish.

Rijinals · 03/02/2007, 03:28 AM

The tank has been running for 6 months now. Is this to early for urchins do you think?

caneelbay89 · 03/02/2007, 05:43 AM

I think what they are saying is, poor quality water is probably the problem. That is based on the loss of two in such a short time. Do you test your water? What are your parameters? What equipment do you have? When did you start this tank? Size? This would allow them to give a better asssessment.

Sorry for your loss. They are wonderful creatures.

papagimp · 03/02/2007, 07:52 AM

I think 6 months is fine for an urchin. I had my 20g Long set up less than 2 when I added my first, he died, but the second added a week later has done fabulous.

GS-Rock · 03/02/2007, 08:34 AM

i am also thinking about trying my hand at adding an urchin are they safe to add in a tank with anemones

racrumrine · 03/02/2007, 09:56 AM

Rijinals - Why don't you test your water and let us know what the parameters are? Urchins need a lot of algae. They only other thing I see is that you seem to have a lot of fish in your tank. I have mine in an 80 gallon tank with only one other fish. They can get pretty large. Before mine lost the long spines, he was about 12 inches across.

GS-Rock - I have mine in a tank with a Carpet and Condy anemone. They don't bother each other. Even though the spines look really dangerous, the urchin carefully pokes his way around them. They seem to have sensors on each spine that let them know whether or not it's ok to move that direction.

You should know that all urchins will bump and knock over anything in your tank that is not solidly attached (like a prized coral frag).

Last night, my urchin was looking back to normal, the long spines are getting noticeably longer each day. I'm feeling really confident that he'll make a full recovery. Big note to self, don't stir up the detritus again!

Best of luck,

Roy

Rijinals · 03/02/2007, 01:25 PM

Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0
PH = 8.2
Nitrate = 0.25
Nutriants = Medium to high (phosban going in tomorrow)
Temp = 25
Flow = 2 Seio pumps
LR, LS
Algea = Green on glass, brown on substrate, to much to be honest hence phosban
Filtration = ECF with AC in
Skimmer V2 running 24/7
UV running 24/7

Plus I thought my PBT would be the first in the tank to show signs of distress!

racrumrine · 03/02/2007, 03:39 PM

Your parameters look fine to me.

Your temperature is a bit colder than I keep the tank my urchin is in. Mine is 26.

It could be that your supplier is not getting very healthy specimens because of transportation problems.

Some stores will hold an animal for a few days before you have to commit to buy it. Perhaps, you can have them hold it for week. If it lives, you can take it home.

If you ever get another one, perhaps start with a smaller one. Also, spend several hours acclimating it to your tank.

In the future, you might also want to occasionally feed algae sheets (Nori) as an occasional treat to supplement what it finds in your tank.

Best of luck,

Roy

bertoni · 03/02/2007, 04:04 PM

I target a temperature of 28 C. 25 C is pretty low, IMO. The other issues would be SG and food availability.

Rijinals · 03/02/2007, 04:30 PM

Cheers guys, feedback much appreciated!

02/28/2007, 01:33 PM	#1
Rijinals Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Manchester, England Posts: 458	My Urchin died! I am really upset, he was a longed spined with blue neon flashes on him. I am gutted. He sat in the corner for the last week not moving, he was not to big and I can not understand whats gone wrong. Everything else in the tank is fine. Last night he looked cool but tonight he lost loads of spines and the body looked like something off a horrer movie! What happened guys? The water is fine! __________________ What do you call a fish with no eyes? A fsh! Current Tank Info: 350 litre - Fish - Inverts with LR

03/01/2007, 12:34 PM	#2
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	How long did you have the animal? What type was it? __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

03/01/2007, 12:54 PM	#3
papagimp COMAS Rocks! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Oklahoma City, OK Posts: 8,185 Blog Entries: 2	I have a diadema setosum, black long spined urchin, with the little neon blue dots as well. It's my second attempt. The first died overnight, couldn't figure that one out, but the second one has done very very well. Does he have enough to feed on? What exactly where your water test results, specific numbers please. How long did you acclimate him for and how long was he in the tank before this happend? __________________ 58g Softie & 75g Stoney Member, Central Oklahoma Marine Aquarium Society Current Tank Info: 58g Mixed Reef Project - Started June 2011

03/01/2007, 01:55 PM	#5
Rijinals Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Manchester, England Posts: 458	Its not in the tank anymore, it was 100% dead. It looked inside out, proper horrible site. I acclimated it for 3 hours, he was in there for 1 week on the back glass eating all my algea. After that boom! Dead! I can not believe it! I did not manage to get him to crawl over any additional food. Could this have been a problem? How do you feed them? __________________ What do you call a fish with no eyes? A fsh! Current Tank Info: 350 litre - Fish - Inverts with LR

03/01/2007, 05:13 PM	#8
papagimp COMAS Rocks! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Oklahoma City, OK Posts: 8,185 Blog Entries: 2	Water quality is a big issue, just FYI to some newbies, Urchins were used way back in the day as a means of quality control. Much like miners used caged birds to test for gas in the mines, early reefers used urchins to check water quality. Them dropping all there spines and dropping dead shortly after was a sure sign that their tank was not ready for more delicate inverts and fish. __________________ 58g Softie & 75g Stoney Member, Central Oklahoma Marine Aquarium Society Current Tank Info: 58g Mixed Reef Project - Started June 2011

03/01/2007, 01:11 PM	#4
racrumrine Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: San Francisco Posts: 2,290	Can you post a picture? Do you know for sure he is dead? The reason I ask is about a couple of weeks ago, I was working on the tank. Later it seemed to spawn. The next day, mine dropped almost all his long spines and he huddled in the back of the rock work. I wrapped a wad of nori on a rock with a rubber band and put it near him. The first time, he barely touched it. Nevertheless, I kept putting out more nori for him everyday. Though he didn't move from that spot for more than a week, he was consistently eating it. Yesterday, I saw him starting to move around again and his spines are growing longer. I'm crossing my fingers that he'll make a complete recovery. Best of luck, Roy

03/01/2007, 02:40 PM	#6
matasw Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 292	I feed mine nori from the asian grocery store (the stuff they use to make sushi). I just put it in a pair of metal tweezer's and just feed it to him. If you've got enough algae in your tank though they should be able to live off of that.

03/01/2007, 04:14 PM	#7
jmack Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: NV Posts: 1,060	If water quality is poor they lose their spines..did you check your parameters?

03/01/2007, 05:47 PM	#9
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	THere are a lot of water parameters: there's: temperature: 80 salinity: 1.025 alkalinity: 8.3 dkh calcium: 400 magnesium: 1200. ph: 8.2. I'd suggest Salifert tests: they give you results in numbers you can log and keep track of, not just colored 'ballpark' estimates that still may be lethal in terms how how fast and deeply they onset. It's water quality that did in the urchin, almost certainly, but probably not a common variety of it. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

03/02/2007, 03:28 AM	#11
Rijinals Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Manchester, England Posts: 458	The tank has been running for 6 months now. Is this to early for urchins do you think? __________________ What do you call a fish with no eyes? A fsh! Current Tank Info: 350 litre - Fish - Inverts with LR

03/02/2007, 05:43 AM	#12
caneelbay89 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Indiana Posts: 71	I think what they are saying is, poor quality water is probably the problem. That is based on the loss of two in such a short time. Do you test your water? What are your parameters? What equipment do you have? When did you start this tank? Size? This would allow them to give a better asssessment. Sorry for your loss. They are wonderful creatures.

03/02/2007, 07:52 AM	#13
papagimp COMAS Rocks! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Oklahoma City, OK Posts: 8,185 Blog Entries: 2	I think 6 months is fine for an urchin. I had my 20g Long set up less than 2 when I added my first, he died, but the second added a week later has done fabulous. __________________ 58g Softie & 75g Stoney Member, Central Oklahoma Marine Aquarium Society Current Tank Info: 58g Mixed Reef Project - Started June 2011

03/02/2007, 08:34 AM	#14
GS-Rock Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: lawton, ok Posts: 447	i am also thinking about trying my hand at adding an urchin are they safe to add in a tank with anemones __________________ soap is magical... Current Tank Info: 2 15g fw planted

03/02/2007, 09:56 AM	#15
racrumrine Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: San Francisco Posts: 2,290	Rijinals - Why don't you test your water and let us know what the parameters are? Urchins need a lot of algae. They only other thing I see is that you seem to have a lot of fish in your tank. I have mine in an 80 gallon tank with only one other fish. They can get pretty large. Before mine lost the long spines, he was about 12 inches across. GS-Rock - I have mine in a tank with a Carpet and Condy anemone. They don't bother each other. Even though the spines look really dangerous, the urchin carefully pokes his way around them. They seem to have sensors on each spine that let them know whether or not it's ok to move that direction. You should know that all urchins will bump and knock over anything in your tank that is not solidly attached (like a prized coral frag). Last night, my urchin was looking back to normal, the long spines are getting noticeably longer each day. I'm feeling really confident that he'll make a full recovery. Big note to self, don't stir up the detritus again! Best of luck, Roy

03/02/2007, 01:25 PM	#16
Rijinals Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Manchester, England Posts: 458	Ammonia = 0 Nitrite = 0 PH = 8.2 Nitrate = 0.25 Nutriants = Medium to high (phosban going in tomorrow) Temp = 25 Flow = 2 Seio pumps LR, LS Algea = Green on glass, brown on substrate, to much to be honest hence phosban Filtration = ECF with AC in Skimmer V2 running 24/7 UV running 24/7 Plus I thought my PBT would be the first in the tank to show signs of distress! __________________ What do you call a fish with no eyes? A fsh! Current Tank Info: 350 litre - Fish - Inverts with LR

03/02/2007, 03:39 PM	#17
racrumrine Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: San Francisco Posts: 2,290	Your parameters look fine to me. Your temperature is a bit colder than I keep the tank my urchin is in. Mine is 26. It could be that your supplier is not getting very healthy specimens because of transportation problems. Some stores will hold an animal for a few days before you have to commit to buy it. Perhaps, you can have them hold it for week. If it lives, you can take it home. If you ever get another one, perhaps start with a smaller one. Also, spend several hours acclimating it to your tank. In the future, you might also want to occasionally feed algae sheets (Nori) as an occasional treat to supplement what it finds in your tank. Best of luck, Roy

03/02/2007, 04:04 PM	#18
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I target a temperature of 28 C. 25 C is pretty low, IMO. The other issues would be SG and food availability. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

03/02/2007, 04:30 PM	#19
Rijinals Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Manchester, England Posts: 458	Cheers guys, feedback much appreciated! __________________ What do you call a fish with no eyes? A fsh! Current Tank Info: 350 litre - Fish - Inverts with LR