Help setting up a predator reef

Wicked1z · 03/02/2007, 06:50 PM

Hello all. I been trolling around on this site forever now. Now it is time I come for help. I am new to the salt hobby. But I do maintain 1 90gal, 4 120's, and a 220gal tank at work. I do work in a petstore and they have wonderfull help about saltwater and I am learning alot but noone there has ever set up a predator reef. They are all into peacfull setups and reef.
Now a little bit about my setup. I have a 55 gal. It has 60 #'s of live sand in the bottom. I got my first shipment of live rock this week. 25 #'s of it. I still am getting another 35 #'s but I got to start somewhere and I dont have the money to get it all at once. I am using Instant Ocean salt. As far as filtration I have 2 H.O.B. Aqua Clear 500 filters. 2 Aqua clear powerhead 800 in the tank. I will be getting a real decent skimmer in a few weeks when I get paid. I am also building a 20gal sump/fuge to go along with this setup. As far as lighting is concerned I fall short in that dpt.. All I have not is the chepo lighting that came with the 55. Plan on throwing the hoods and lights out next weekend when a buddy of mine is selling me a duel compact light with almost new bulbs (2 months old) for like 50 bucks. So I know that will be ok for now cause I am not going all out on the reef part of the tank. Not yet

O.K. now to the real question on this post. Right now I got some damsels in the tank on loan from my store cycling the tank but as soon as its through with this stage of life I am going to add 1 or 2 Antennata Lionfish. They only get about 7-8 inchs. What would be good tankmatest for these guys? If you guys can give me a couple ideas to go on I would love it. I want to plan my whole setup out before I start so I wont go changing my mind in mid stream.
Sorry this post is so long. And I hope I have not board you all to death with my ramblings. I need some better advice than my lfs can supply me and I really belive I can get that here. Thank you all for your time and effort. Any and all tips would be gratefull as I said I am kinda new to salt.

Thanks,
Michael

Justdrew · 03/02/2007, 09:43 PM

Honestly, two 8" lions are about the max I would put in a 55 gallon.

pbukow · 03/02/2007, 10:27 PM

try to stick with 1 inch of fish per 5 gallons for salt tanks, esp reef tanks where bio-loads are best measured to be nonexistent or as low as possible (around 5ppm at most). Also, predator fish eat foods that are meaty and messy that will require excellent skimming and/or a refugium to export the high nitrates that your fish will produce.

Wicked1z · 03/02/2007, 11:11 PM

So since my bio load will be so hi will I still be able to do an invert clean up crew? also if I just went with one lion can you all think of anything else I can get?

Wicked1z · 03/02/2007, 11:25 PM

Also sorry to double post. The skimmer that I am looking at has been rated to 175 gal. that will be on the back of my tank till I get my sump built, then it will be in there. Also building a fuge in my sump. so Wouldn't I be able to push a higher bio load? I thought that what the purpose of all the rock and such was for (not to cram as many fish as you can get in there) I mean 60 + #'s of rock in the show tank another 5 - 10 in the fuge. 60 + #'s of sand plus whatever I can get into the fuge.

I just know on my fresh water experience with increased filtration I could push the envelope even farther. I do thank you all for your info, and I am not trying to rant... just understand. I just want to make a cool little pred. reef setup till I move later this year and can get my big boy 200 set up for pred. FO.

Also how long do I have to wait till I start adding small frags of corals? A buddy of mine has a few polyps and a shroom he was going to give me as a starter, so I was also wondering if I have to wait till my tank as stabilized as I know that can take up to six months.

fish 511 · 03/03/2007, 12:34 AM

IMO, I would wait for the big tank to do the predator tank. In a 55 you are kind of limited. But you could go all out ina 200.

Maybe you should get a vicious, ferocious, flake-food-eating clown fish!

Wicked1z · 03/03/2007, 12:46 AM

I am not wanting to really go all out on the predator aspect of this tank. I am just wanting to try and get something else in there besides one or possibly 2 dwarf lions. I am not wanting the lion because of it being vicious or ferocious. I think the full size lions are so beautiful and the ones I am choosing are like them but smaller versions.
Also as far as the 200 goes I have been planning that for sometime. I just want to wait till I get my house first. I do plan on going all out on it with a dog face puffer, porcupine puffer, a volitan lion, And I am really wanting a snowflake eel.
Also as far as my 55 goes has anyone heard what about only putting one lion in and also doing a small eel? or would it eat any crabs I put in the tank? I was reading about them in my pocketexpert guide to Marine Fishes by Scott W. Michael, and it said that they will eat ornamental crustacceans.

pbukow · 03/03/2007, 10:14 AM

Though snowflake eels have been fairly uninterested in fish that they could consider food, they will eat invertebrates as they are there main staple food in the wild. The Antennata will eat anything that is alive and will fit in its mouth pretty much.

Wicked1z · 03/03/2007, 10:59 AM

I wasnt so much meaning the snowflake in this 55. maybe something smaller. like a Chesnut or the richardson's for example. I talked to one of the people at the company where we place a few of our orders from. I know he is more of a business person, but he really has always had good advise for us when we are stumpud. Anyway he said that if I set my rock up right in my tank that I shouldnt (thats the key word LOL) have any problems adding small crabs. This was before the idea of the eel.
So if I go with just 1 lion what would make any good tankmates?

pbukow · 03/03/2007, 05:40 PM

Tankmates would be anthing that it couldn't fit into its mouth. But in a 55Gal tank that leaves few options. What did you have in mind for tankmates. Btw, lionfish are slow swimmers so competing for food might be an issue that target feeding will easily solve.

Jaymann · 03/03/2007, 05:55 PM

I have a Predator Reef... Grouper, Lion Fish, Puffer and a Tomato Clown, they all get along great, cant keep shrimp but that is about it..

pbukow · 03/03/2007, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jaymann
I have a Predator Reef... Grouper, Lion Fish, Puffer and a Tomato Clown, they all get along great, cant keep shrimp but that is about it..

What kind of corals do u have in ur tank, what are ur parameters, and size of tank?

dkol02 · 03/03/2007, 06:11 PM

i have a fuzzy dwarf a snowflake a clarki clown and a puffer in my reef tank it the all are fine together i did have a cherry grouper in the tank but i had to get rid of it because of how big it got

pbukow · 03/04/2007, 01:20 AM

Sorry if i seem a little pesamistic about the whole thing, i've just never heard of such a setup but if people are having a good luck with them, it must not be as improbable as i previously thought. Good Luck to all and let us know how everything goes.

ThomasinKind · 03/04/2007, 06:16 AM

You could do a SFE and a Dwarf Lion in a 55 gal. You would not be able to keep any clean-up crew for very long (both will eat them eventualy). You're going to need a MONSTER skimmer to keep up with all the waste that those two will produce. I'd also make sure that you do a fuge w/a decent amount of macro-algae. Even so, from the "predator" reefs I've encountered almost all crash or don't support corals for very long. This isn't to discourage you from trying...

There are some smaller "predators" you could keep. Long-nose hawks come to mind. You could also consider doing a scorpionfish setup. A group of 2 or 3 would probably work in a 55gal. Again, they'll create a lot of waste though.

Wicked1z · 03/04/2007, 08:23 PM

Well the only reason my wife let the money loose was so she could have a Lion. I am waiting till I do my big tank when I move to do the true Predator tank with real lions and puffers. So for the most part I have to do some kinda lion in this tank. Everything else is completly optional. I want more of a coral/invert setup personally. So basicly in short I need other options to go with my lion. If I can get other smaller but faster fish that are not preators than I will be all for it. But if all else fails I guess I can bow down and just put 2 lions in and a bunch of corals and inverts. I would just like to have a little more display in this tank. Thanks agian everone for all your help so far. So far this is the best board I have found so far. In the last few weeks I been handing out a lot of cards with your addy on the back. Telling them that you all can answer almost all there questions, I know you have mine.

Wicked1z · 03/04/2007, 08:31 PM

Also a side question. Does anyone know how long I have to wait before I add some turbo snails or hermit crabs? The tank has been up for about 2 weeks. Damsels have been in about 4 or 5 days now. The reason I am asking is we will be placing an order tomorow and if I hop on the band wagon and order with them I can get wholesale instead of a discount and I dont have to worry about shipping. The store will hold them for me for a few days if I need them to but they may get sold buy other staff by mistake.

Wicked1z · 03/05/2007, 12:46 AM

bump

ThomasinKind · 03/05/2007, 06:45 AM

What are your water params?

If you truly want to do an invert and coral setup you're going to want/need to convince your wife to not want a lion (at least in this setup). Wait until you get the larger tank and do a FOWLR. Lions [generally] will eat cleanup crews (everything that moves and they can fit into their mouth). If you had a really small dwarf you'd be ok with larger cleanup crews, but only while it's too small to eat them. Check out: THIS

Again, not trying to discourage... but honestly it's not the greatest idea and could result in a lot of problems for you and moreso for your animals.

yakfishin · 03/05/2007, 07:55 AM

What is meant by a "predator reef"? Is this just going to be a FOWLR with perhaps a cleanup crew, or are you going to try having some corals as well?

Wicked1z · 03/05/2007, 09:06 AM

Thanks for that link. I will check it out. Yes I will be having corals in this tank.

yakfishin · 03/05/2007, 10:42 AM

If you are going to have corals, make sure you stick with hardy, soft corals such as zoo, polyps and mushrooms. I can tell you from experience that predators such as eels and lionfish will greatly add to the bioload due to their feeding habits, even when compared to other herbivore type fish of similiar sizes. While some corals may do ok, and some such as mushrooms may even flourish with the added nutrients, your stronger lighting required to keep corals are going to cause massive algae growth with the added nutrients unless you have a really top notch filtration system. Trust me, I have a 215g predator reef and I have an over sized skimmer, run purapads for added filtration, and do large water changes weekly. If I had to do things over again, I would have just done a FOWLR and skipped the corals. That way you can use lower lighting that doesn't promote algae growth. My system is looking great, but it does require much more work to keep the corals I have- not sure for me if it is worth it.

techigirl78 · 03/05/2007, 01:04 PM

Here's another article I didn't see referenced: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...ture/index.php

You have to wait for your cycle to complete to add snails/crabs.

I also agree with yak on sticking to the less demanding corals. This also works well as the lower lighting needs of these corals will allow for a more lion friendly reef.

You do know that the antennata lionfish are shy? I just don't want your wife to think you'll get them and they will look AND act like a volitans she may have seen at the LFS - i.e. out swimming in the tank all the time. They may over time, but it is nothing I would bet on. I got a fairly active dwarf zebra that is out from about 4PM to 11PM, which works well for me. The rest of the time, it is usually hanging out with the sea serpent upside down in its cave. I must say though, I had to wait about 6 months to find this one at the LFS - healthy, active, eating frozen foods readily, and making it beyond a few weeks in the store. Mine is currently housed with two wrasses and a full grown midas blenny. In the next month or so, I will be moving the midas and smaller wrasse out as the lionfish gets larger.

Finally, I think snails tend to work well with lionfish. I have not noticed losing any snails to my lionfish or scorpionfish. I don't use hermits, so I don't know if the same would apply.

Wicked1z · 03/05/2007, 01:32 PM

Well from the looks of it I guess I will just have to let her down easy on the lion. I went ahead and ordered 2 turbo snails, and a couple of blue leg hermets. Going to be checking the water tonight when I go into work. If I have to I will leave them at work till all is ok. Dang my wife is going to not talk to me the rest of the week over this. ...And thats a bad thing right???

luke33 · 03/05/2007, 01:53 PM

Well, i disagree about the dwarf lionfish in a reef. I've talked to quite a few reefers who have done this and are doing so. The trick is to have a really nice skimmer and a nice fuge. This will keep your trates in check. The lion could careless about your corals. You just have to make sure your trates are good. So imo, you can do it but before you start adding the expensive corals in there you need to get your tank set up right with the skimmer goin and the fuge going as well. Now the posts i saw about the puffers in there reef's......not sure what kind of puffers they have but any thing in the family as the dogface is far from reef safe. they will eat or pick on anything but GSP's. The toby's will pick at sps, lps, alot but not so much GSP's or shrooms. Lionfish are safe imo.Good luck!

03/02/2007, 06:50 PM	#1
Wicked1z Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Maryville, TN Posts: 70	Help setting up a predator reef Hello all. I been trolling around on this site forever now. Now it is time I come for help. I am new to the salt hobby. But I do maintain 1 90gal, 4 120's, and a 220gal tank at work. I do work in a petstore and they have wonderfull help about saltwater and I am learning alot but noone there has ever set up a predator reef. They are all into peacfull setups and reef. Now a little bit about my setup. I have a 55 gal. It has 60 #'s of live sand in the bottom. I got my first shipment of live rock this week. 25 #'s of it. I still am getting another 35 #'s but I got to start somewhere and I dont have the money to get it all at once. I am using Instant Ocean salt. As far as filtration I have 2 H.O.B. Aqua Clear 500 filters. 2 Aqua clear powerhead 800 in the tank. I will be getting a real decent skimmer in a few weeks when I get paid. I am also building a 20gal sump/fuge to go along with this setup. As far as lighting is concerned I fall short in that dpt.. All I have not is the chepo lighting that came with the 55. Plan on throwing the hoods and lights out next weekend when a buddy of mine is selling me a duel compact light with almost new bulbs (2 months old) for like 50 bucks. So I know that will be ok for now cause I am not going all out on the reef part of the tank. Not yet O.K. now to the real question on this post. Right now I got some damsels in the tank on loan from my store cycling the tank but as soon as its through with this stage of life I am going to add 1 or 2 Antennata Lionfish. They only get about 7-8 inchs. What would be good tankmatest for these guys? If you guys can give me a couple ideas to go on I would love it. I want to plan my whole setup out before I start so I wont go changing my mind in mid stream. Sorry this post is so long. And I hope I have not board you all to death with my ramblings. I need some better advice than my lfs can supply me and I really belive I can get that here. Thank you all for your time and effort. Any and all tips would be gratefull as I said I am kinda new to salt. Thanks, Michael

03/02/2007, 09:43 PM	#2
Justdrew Dad with Triplets! Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 583	Honestly, two 8" lions are about the max I would put in a 55 gallon. __________________ "As Far As You Know!" -Fletch Current Tank Info: 40 Breeder, 2X Radion XR15W, Vortech MP40 & MP10, Simplicity Aquatics 240DC Skimmer, Apex Controlled

03/02/2007, 10:27 PM	#3
pbukow Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 453	try to stick with 1 inch of fish per 5 gallons for salt tanks, esp reef tanks where bio-loads are best measured to be nonexistent or as low as possible (around 5ppm at most). Also, predator fish eat foods that are meaty and messy that will require excellent skimming and/or a refugium to export the high nitrates that your fish will produce. __________________ What do you mean I have to change the water? PBITAWA Every Day

03/02/2007, 11:11 PM	#4
Wicked1z Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Maryville, TN Posts: 70	So since my bio load will be so hi will I still be able to do an invert clean up crew? also if I just went with one lion can you all think of anything else I can get? __________________ , O }\ o ) \ .' `\ . ( }}< ( 6> ) ) ) / `, .' ( ( ( ( }/ ) ) ) ) ' ( ( ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^^ Current Tank Info: 55 gal FOWLR 2 Dwarf Lions, Sleeper Goby, lawnmower blenny, Maroon Clown, Marine Betta, Six Line Wrasse, Coral Beauty, Domino Damsel, Atlantic Puffer, Asst snail and hermits. 20 Gal Long Reef Nothing yet :)

03/02/2007, 11:25 PM	#5
Wicked1z Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Maryville, TN Posts: 70	Also sorry to double post. The skimmer that I am looking at has been rated to 175 gal. that will be on the back of my tank till I get my sump built, then it will be in there. Also building a fuge in my sump. so Wouldn't I be able to push a higher bio load? I thought that what the purpose of all the rock and such was for (not to cram as many fish as you can get in there) I mean 60 + #'s of rock in the show tank another 5 - 10 in the fuge. 60 + #'s of sand plus whatever I can get into the fuge. I just know on my fresh water experience with increased filtration I could push the envelope even farther. I do thank you all for your info, and I am not trying to rant... just understand. I just want to make a cool little pred. reef setup till I move later this year and can get my big boy 200 set up for pred. FO. Also how long do I have to wait till I start adding small frags of corals? A buddy of mine has a few polyps and a shroom he was going to give me as a starter, so I was also wondering if I have to wait till my tank as stabilized as I know that can take up to six months. __________________ , O }\ o ) \ .' `\ . ( }}< ( 6> ) ) ) / `, .' ( ( ( ( }/ ) ) ) ) ' ( ( ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^^ Current Tank Info: 55 gal FOWLR 2 Dwarf Lions, Sleeper Goby, lawnmower blenny, Maroon Clown, Marine Betta, Six Line Wrasse, Coral Beauty, Domino Damsel, Atlantic Puffer, Asst snail and hermits. 20 Gal Long Reef Nothing yet :)

03/03/2007, 12:34 AM	#6
fish 511 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Huntington Beach, California Posts: 679	IMO, I would wait for the big tank to do the predator tank. In a 55 you are kind of limited. But you could go all out ina 200. Maybe you should get a vicious, ferocious, flake-food-eating clown fish!

03/03/2007, 12:46 AM	#7
Wicked1z Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Maryville, TN Posts: 70	I am not wanting to really go all out on the predator aspect of this tank. I am just wanting to try and get something else in there besides one or possibly 2 dwarf lions. I am not wanting the lion because of it being vicious or ferocious. I think the full size lions are so beautiful and the ones I am choosing are like them but smaller versions. Also as far as the 200 goes I have been planning that for sometime. I just want to wait till I get my house first. I do plan on going all out on it with a dog face puffer, porcupine puffer, a volitan lion, And I am really wanting a snowflake eel. Also as far as my 55 goes has anyone heard what about only putting one lion in and also doing a small eel? or would it eat any crabs I put in the tank? I was reading about them in my pocketexpert guide to Marine Fishes by Scott W. Michael, and it said that they will eat ornamental crustacceans. __________________ , O }\ o ) \ .' `\ . ( }}< ( 6> ) ) ) / `, .' ( ( ( ( }/ ) ) ) ) ' ( ( ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^^ Current Tank Info: 55 gal FOWLR 2 Dwarf Lions, Sleeper Goby, lawnmower blenny, Maroon Clown, Marine Betta, Six Line Wrasse, Coral Beauty, Domino Damsel, Atlantic Puffer, Asst snail and hermits. 20 Gal Long Reef Nothing yet :) Last edited by Wicked1z; 03/03/2007 at 12:58 AM.

03/03/2007, 10:14 AM	#8
pbukow Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 453	Though snowflake eels have been fairly uninterested in fish that they could consider food, they will eat invertebrates as they are there main staple food in the wild. The Antennata will eat anything that is alive and will fit in its mouth pretty much. __________________ What do you mean I have to change the water? PBITAWA Every Day

03/03/2007, 10:59 AM	#9
Wicked1z Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Maryville, TN Posts: 70	I wasnt so much meaning the snowflake in this 55. maybe something smaller. like a Chesnut or the richardson's for example. I talked to one of the people at the company where we place a few of our orders from. I know he is more of a business person, but he really has always had good advise for us when we are stumpud. Anyway he said that if I set my rock up right in my tank that I shouldnt (thats the key word LOL) have any problems adding small crabs. This was before the idea of the eel. So if I go with just 1 lion what would make any good tankmates? __________________ , O }\ o ) \ .' `\ . ( }}< ( 6> ) ) ) / `, .' ( ( ( ( }/ ) ) ) ) ' ( ( ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^^ Current Tank Info: 55 gal FOWLR 2 Dwarf Lions, Sleeper Goby, lawnmower blenny, Maroon Clown, Marine Betta, Six Line Wrasse, Coral Beauty, Domino Damsel, Atlantic Puffer, Asst snail and hermits. 20 Gal Long Reef Nothing yet :)

03/03/2007, 05:40 PM	#10
pbukow Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 453	Tankmates would be anthing that it couldn't fit into its mouth. But in a 55Gal tank that leaves few options. What did you have in mind for tankmates. Btw, lionfish are slow swimmers so competing for food might be an issue that target feeding will easily solve. __________________ What do you mean I have to change the water? PBITAWA Every Day

03/03/2007, 05:55 PM	#11
Jaymann Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 50	I have a Predator Reef... Grouper, Lion Fish, Puffer and a Tomato Clown, they all get along great, cant keep shrimp but that is about it..

03/03/2007, 06:11 PM	#13
dkol02 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Key west Florida Posts: 68	i have a fuzzy dwarf a snowflake a clarki clown and a puffer in my reef tank it the all are fine together i did have a cherry grouper in the tank but i had to get rid of it because of how big it got

03/04/2007, 01:20 AM	#14
pbukow Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 453	Sorry if i seem a little pesamistic about the whole thing, i've just never heard of such a setup but if people are having a good luck with them, it must not be as improbable as i previously thought. Good Luck to all and let us know how everything goes. __________________ What do you mean I have to change the water? PBITAWA Every Day

03/04/2007, 06:16 AM	#15
ThomasinKind Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Lake Charles, LA Posts: 198	You could do a SFE and a Dwarf Lion in a 55 gal. You would not be able to keep any clean-up crew for very long (both will eat them eventualy). You're going to need a MONSTER skimmer to keep up with all the waste that those two will produce. I'd also make sure that you do a fuge w/a decent amount of macro-algae. Even so, from the "predator" reefs I've encountered almost all crash or don't support corals for very long. This isn't to discourage you from trying... There are some smaller "predators" you could keep. Long-nose hawks come to mind. You could also consider doing a scorpionfish setup. A group of 2 or 3 would probably work in a 55gal. Again, they'll create a lot of waste though. __________________ - ThomasinKind Current Tank Info: none - researching for a nano to be set up in the near future

03/04/2007, 08:23 PM	#16
Wicked1z Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Maryville, TN Posts: 70	Well the only reason my wife let the money loose was so she could have a Lion. I am waiting till I do my big tank when I move to do the true Predator tank with real lions and puffers. So for the most part I have to do some kinda lion in this tank. Everything else is completly optional. I want more of a coral/invert setup personally. So basicly in short I need other options to go with my lion. If I can get other smaller but faster fish that are not preators than I will be all for it. But if all else fails I guess I can bow down and just put 2 lions in and a bunch of corals and inverts. I would just like to have a little more display in this tank. Thanks agian everone for all your help so far. So far this is the best board I have found so far. In the last few weeks I been handing out a lot of cards with your addy on the back. Telling them that you all can answer almost all there questions, I know you have mine. __________________ , O }\ o ) \ .' `\ . ( }}< ( 6> ) ) ) / `, .' ( ( ( ( }/ ) ) ) ) ' ( ( ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^^ Current Tank Info: 55 gal FOWLR 2 Dwarf Lions, Sleeper Goby, lawnmower blenny, Maroon Clown, Marine Betta, Six Line Wrasse, Coral Beauty, Domino Damsel, Atlantic Puffer, Asst snail and hermits. 20 Gal Long Reef Nothing yet :)

03/04/2007, 08:31 PM	#17
Wicked1z Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Maryville, TN Posts: 70	Also a side question. Does anyone know how long I have to wait before I add some turbo snails or hermit crabs? The tank has been up for about 2 weeks. Damsels have been in about 4 or 5 days now. The reason I am asking is we will be placing an order tomorow and if I hop on the band wagon and order with them I can get wholesale instead of a discount and I dont have to worry about shipping. The store will hold them for me for a few days if I need them to but they may get sold buy other staff by mistake. __________________ , O }\ o ) \ .' `\ . ( }}< ( 6> ) ) ) / `, .' ( ( ( ( }/ ) ) ) ) ' ( ( ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^^ Current Tank Info: 55 gal FOWLR 2 Dwarf Lions, Sleeper Goby, lawnmower blenny, Maroon Clown, Marine Betta, Six Line Wrasse, Coral Beauty, Domino Damsel, Atlantic Puffer, Asst snail and hermits. 20 Gal Long Reef Nothing yet :)

03/05/2007, 12:46 AM	#18
Wicked1z Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Maryville, TN Posts: 70	bump __________________ , O }\ o ) \ .' `\ . ( }}< ( 6> ) ) ) / `, .' ( ( ( ( }/ ) ) ) ) ' ( ( ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^^ Current Tank Info: 55 gal FOWLR 2 Dwarf Lions, Sleeper Goby, lawnmower blenny, Maroon Clown, Marine Betta, Six Line Wrasse, Coral Beauty, Domino Damsel, Atlantic Puffer, Asst snail and hermits. 20 Gal Long Reef Nothing yet :)

03/05/2007, 06:45 AM	#19
ThomasinKind Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Lake Charles, LA Posts: 198	What are your water params? If you truly want to do an invert and coral setup you're going to want/need to convince your wife to not want a lion (at least in this setup). Wait until you get the larger tank and do a FOWLR. Lions [generally] will eat cleanup crews (everything that moves and they can fit into their mouth). If you had a really small dwarf you'd be ok with larger cleanup crews, but only while it's too small to eat them. Check out: THIS Again, not trying to discourage... but honestly it's not the greatest idea and could result in a lot of problems for you and moreso for your animals. __________________ - ThomasinKind Current Tank Info: none - researching for a nano to be set up in the near future Last edited by ThomasinKind; 03/05/2007 at 06:56 AM.

03/05/2007, 07:55 AM	#20
yakfishin Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 696	What is meant by a "predator reef"? Is this just going to be a FOWLR with perhaps a cleanup crew, or are you going to try having some corals as well?

03/05/2007, 09:06 AM	#21
Wicked1z Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Maryville, TN Posts: 70	Thanks for that link. I will check it out. Yes I will be having corals in this tank. __________________ , O }\ o ) \ .' `\ . ( }}< ( 6> ) ) ) / `, .' ( ( ( ( }/ ) ) ) ) ' ( ( ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^^ Current Tank Info: 55 gal FOWLR 2 Dwarf Lions, Sleeper Goby, lawnmower blenny, Maroon Clown, Marine Betta, Six Line Wrasse, Coral Beauty, Domino Damsel, Atlantic Puffer, Asst snail and hermits. 20 Gal Long Reef Nothing yet :)

03/05/2007, 10:42 AM	#22
yakfishin Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 696	If you are going to have corals, make sure you stick with hardy, soft corals such as zoo, polyps and mushrooms. I can tell you from experience that predators such as eels and lionfish will greatly add to the bioload due to their feeding habits, even when compared to other herbivore type fish of similiar sizes. While some corals may do ok, and some such as mushrooms may even flourish with the added nutrients, your stronger lighting required to keep corals are going to cause massive algae growth with the added nutrients unless you have a really top notch filtration system. Trust me, I have a 215g predator reef and I have an over sized skimmer, run purapads for added filtration, and do large water changes weekly. If I had to do things over again, I would have just done a FOWLR and skipped the corals. That way you can use lower lighting that doesn't promote algae growth. My system is looking great, but it does require much more work to keep the corals I have- not sure for me if it is worth it.

03/05/2007, 01:04 PM	#23
techigirl78 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,739	Here's another article I didn't see referenced: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...ture/index.php You have to wait for your cycle to complete to add snails/crabs. I also agree with yak on sticking to the less demanding corals. This also works well as the lower lighting needs of these corals will allow for a more lion friendly reef. You do know that the antennata lionfish are shy? I just don't want your wife to think you'll get them and they will look AND act like a volitans she may have seen at the LFS - i.e. out swimming in the tank all the time. They may over time, but it is nothing I would bet on. I got a fairly active dwarf zebra that is out from about 4PM to 11PM, which works well for me. The rest of the time, it is usually hanging out with the sea serpent upside down in its cave. I must say though, I had to wait about 6 months to find this one at the LFS - healthy, active, eating frozen foods readily, and making it beyond a few weeks in the store. Mine is currently housed with two wrasses and a full grown midas blenny. In the next month or so, I will be moving the midas and smaller wrasse out as the lionfish gets larger. Finally, I think snails tend to work well with lionfish. I have not noticed losing any snails to my lionfish or scorpionfish. I don't use hermits, so I don't know if the same would apply.

03/05/2007, 01:32 PM	#24
Wicked1z Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Maryville, TN Posts: 70	Well from the looks of it I guess I will just have to let her down easy on the lion. I went ahead and ordered 2 turbo snails, and a couple of blue leg hermets. Going to be checking the water tonight when I go into work. If I have to I will leave them at work till all is ok. Dang my wife is going to not talk to me the rest of the week over this. ...And thats a bad thing right??? __________________ , O }\ o ) \ .' `\ . ( }}< ( 6> ) ) ) / `, .' ( ( ( ( }/ ) ) ) ) ' ( ( ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^^ Current Tank Info: 55 gal FOWLR 2 Dwarf Lions, Sleeper Goby, lawnmower blenny, Maroon Clown, Marine Betta, Six Line Wrasse, Coral Beauty, Domino Damsel, Atlantic Puffer, Asst snail and hermits. 20 Gal Long Reef Nothing yet :)

03/05/2007, 01:53 PM	#25
luke33 Moved On Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 8,375	Well, i disagree about the dwarf lionfish in a reef. I've talked to quite a few reefers who have done this and are doing so. The trick is to have a really nice skimmer and a nice fuge. This will keep your trates in check. The lion could careless about your corals. You just have to make sure your trates are good. So imo, you can do it but before you start adding the expensive corals in there you need to get your tank set up right with the skimmer goin and the fuge going as well. Now the posts i saw about the puffers in there reef's......not sure what kind of puffers they have but any thing in the family as the dogface is far from reef safe. they will eat or pick on anything but GSP's. The toby's will pick at sps, lps, alot but not so much GSP's or shrooms. Lionfish are safe imo.Good luck!