enoughs enough!!!

champscorner · 03/09/2007, 06:22 PM

i'm working on a new setup, put my water in about a week ago and just mixed my salt today and was hoping during this time period i could figure out what was going on with my water as it has been cloudy(even before i added salt). so yesterday with some help from people on this site i found out it is tons of little micro bubbles. so immediatley i started to look for where they may be coming from and really i can't find anything. there are the smallest of amount of them dropping into my return from the teeth of the fuge but i mean small and there not even close to the return pump. the bubbles entering the tank aren't constant but i do see them spurt out of the return loc line every 10mins or so. where can these be coming from and how do i fix it because these things are super frustrating.

champscorner · 03/09/2007, 06:57 PM

any ideas here????

Scuba_Steve · 03/09/2007, 07:26 PM

they arnt from your skimmer? sorry had to ask the obvious first

scrmbld33 · 03/09/2007, 07:26 PM

they are coming through your return most likley, does your sump have baffles? do any of your power heads or pumps have the airation tube attached? is aything sucking air in, sometimes if powerheads are to close to the surface they will suck air in, if you could post pics of the disply and sump we might see something else too

eidillitih · 03/09/2007, 07:29 PM

Is the pump getting enough water? Is the sump a DIY?

champscorner · 03/09/2007, 07:36 PM

no skimmers not on yet.

i do have a bubble trap seperating my skimmer from my return and a baffle with teeth seperating the fuge from the return and i can see a very small amount of bubbles trickling over from the fuge but there not even close to the pump. I have 2 korolia 4's about 4 inches under. but like i said i do see bubbles about every 10mins coming out of the return loc line into the tank in spurts.

the pump is definatley geetting enough water, actually just throttled it back with the ball valve a couple of minutes ago to see if this would help.

i post some pics

RocketEngineer · 03/09/2007, 07:41 PM

You may have a pin hole somewhere in your return line. this is causing air to be drawn into the loc-line and once a large enough bubble forms it gets pushed into the tank.

Turn off your return pump and see if you can notice any wet spots on the return lines. You need to turn off the pumps because otherwise the suction effect is pulling air in instead of letting water out.

champscorner · 03/09/2007, 07:41 PM

scrmbld33 · 03/09/2007, 07:42 PM

sounds like you have to purge the air out of the return some how, sounds like air is building up/getting trapped in there, i try and keep my return straight up so air cant build up in there

champscorner · 03/09/2007, 07:48 PM

how would the air be getting in??? so you think the 90's on the return line may have something to do with it.

champscorner · 03/09/2007, 07:51 PM

Turn off your return pump and see if you can notice any wet spots on the return lines. You need to turn off the pumps because otherwise the suction effect is pulling air in instead of letting water out.

just tried it. haven't seen anything initially but i will leave it off for a few more to see if i notice any water.

scrmbld33 · 03/09/2007, 07:57 PM

if its not a pin hole, maybe airs getting trapped around the locline? is there less bubbles at wide open as opposed to partially blocked?

champscorner · 03/09/2007, 08:04 PM

seems to be about the same with it throttled back but i just kicked the ball valve back a little bit. i do notice everytime i adjust the valve bubbles come flying out of the locline. not sure if this helps but also there are bubbles sticking all over the locline but no where else??

champscorner · 03/09/2007, 08:33 PM

where did everyone go? i thought we(ok maybe you guys)were about to have a break through.

laserjim · 03/09/2007, 09:08 PM

Try having your line from your tank to your sump flow into a sock first.That helps.

DarthBaiter · 03/09/2007, 11:10 PM

looks like you have the return pump in the middle chamber? and the drain in the left and right chamber of the sump? If so, you are getting the bubbles from the right chamber with the teeth on it. I would do one of two things...first choice would be to re plump so that the return pump is in the left chamber and the drains goes in to the right an d middle with most of the water going to the right chamber, or if you are too lazy, i would just put a filter sock on the right chamber drain.

P.S. Champ, your intrests....hicking? hope it involves a girl.

gkarshens · 03/09/2007, 11:24 PM

Is all of your loc-line submerged? If not it can suck in air at the joints.

champscorner · 03/10/2007, 07:47 AM

Is all of your loc-line submerged? If not it can suck in air at the joints.[/

actually the first 2 links were not submerged all the way. i just pushed them down but still have a part where it comes out of the return pvc(obviously) that is in the air. thanks for the tip i'll see if it works.

, or if you are too lazy, i would just put a filter sock on the right chamber drain.

actually i'm lazy especially when i'm hicking

(good catch darth). ya i think i'll save the replumbing for a last resort after i try all these other smaller suggestions. But if you could explain why you think they're coming from the right chamber with the teeth and how would replumbing it in your manner help this. thanks man.

scumonkey · 03/10/2007, 03:01 PM

so it turned out to be micro bubbles :^)
At least it wasn't something fouling your water!

I can get lazy too.
I had a micro bubble problem that was driving me mad.
Baffles in my sump didn't help either.....
I made a decision that a lot of people on this board might not agree with but, it has worked like a charm for me.
I got a very large filter sock and just dropped my return pump into it. All the water going back to my display must go through the sock to get to the pump....NO MORE BUBBLES!!!
I decided that I could manually transfer my pods from the fuge if needed- easier than looking at bubbles. And I change the sock out often to keep down the nitrates.

DarthBaiter · 03/10/2007, 03:40 PM

I think it's the teeth chamber as I don't see the multi baffles that would trap the bubbles from the dursos. The bubbles are coming from the durso mixing water and air so that can't or shouldn't be hindered. The three baffles on the left side is what traps the bubbles as the water moves around em, the right side has none so the bubbles which would rise to the teeth would just spill over into the return pump and right back into the display. Try the sock on that drain only and if that stops the bubbles, I would look into repluming, as I think you can get better use out of the sump if the return was at one end and the water moved thru the teeth than the baffles to the return pump. You can than add micro algae in the middle with the skimmer and live rock rubble in the teeth chamber. You can than have the skimmer pump in the first or middle chamber and it returning to the middle chamber so that the bubbles from that is also trapped by the baffles.

eidillitih · 03/10/2007, 04:44 PM

add another baffle on the right after the teeth baffle. Keep it 2 inches off the bottom. Bubbles will not travel underneath the baffle keeping bubbles out of the return area.

03/09/2007, 06:22 PM	#1
champscorner Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 276	enoughs enough!!! i'm working on a new setup, put my water in about a week ago and just mixed my salt today and was hoping during this time period i could figure out what was going on with my water as it has been cloudy(even before i added salt). so yesterday with some help from people on this site i found out it is tons of little micro bubbles. so immediatley i started to look for where they may be coming from and really i can't find anything. there are the smallest of amount of them dropping into my return from the teeth of the fuge but i mean small and there not even close to the return pump. the bubbles entering the tank aren't constant but i do see them spurt out of the return loc line every 10mins or so. where can these be coming from and how do i fix it because these things are super frustrating. __________________ we as human beings are the only creatures on earth that can dream and set out to make that dream become true Current Tank Info: 90gal w/30gal sump, in sump fuge, aqua C EV 180 skimmer ran on a mag 9, 2x 250w pheonix mh and 4x 54w t5, ehiem 1262 for return, 2xphosban reactors(carbon,phosban), 2 x K4 for more circ

03/09/2007, 06:57 PM	#2
champscorner Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 276	any ideas here???? __________________ we as human beings are the only creatures on earth that can dream and set out to make that dream become true Current Tank Info: 90gal w/30gal sump, in sump fuge, aqua C EV 180 skimmer ran on a mag 9, 2x 250w pheonix mh and 4x 54w t5, ehiem 1262 for return, 2xphosban reactors(carbon,phosban), 2 x K4 for more circ

03/09/2007, 07:26 PM	#4
scrmbld33 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: south jersey 08050 Posts: 2,394	they are coming through your return most likley, does your sump have baffles? do any of your power heads or pumps have the airation tube attached? is aything sucking air in, sometimes if powerheads are to close to the surface they will suck air in, if you could post pics of the disply and sump we might see something else too __________________ a left over shrimp shedding is not "a sicilian message meaning luca brasi sleeps with the fishes" fish are friends, not food Current Tank Info: 90gal salt, 2 250mh 14k hamiltons 2 110 actinic, 127lbs LR,50lbs tonga 70lbs indonesia 7lbs tonga branch asm g3

03/09/2007, 07:29 PM	#5
eidillitih Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Euless Tx. Posts: 1,160	Is the pump getting enough water? Is the sump a DIY? __________________ What you achieve or fail to achieve is directly related to what you do or fail to do It's the Journey that makes the Destination so sweet C. Taylor, M.Ed. Current Tank Info: 190g, 250lbs Live Rock, Vertex Alpha skimmer, 2x Tunze 6100's, Vortech 40mp, Queit one return, 220watts vho, 750MH, 60gal. Melev Sump, DIY Stand and Canopy, JBJ 1/4 Chiller, and other Man toys

03/09/2007, 07:36 PM	#6
champscorner Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 276	no skimmers not on yet. i do have a bubble trap seperating my skimmer from my return and a baffle with teeth seperating the fuge from the return and i can see a very small amount of bubbles trickling over from the fuge but there not even close to the pump. I have 2 korolia 4's about 4 inches under. but like i said i do see bubbles about every 10mins coming out of the return loc line into the tank in spurts. the pump is definatley geetting enough water, actually just throttled it back with the ball valve a couple of minutes ago to see if this would help. i post some pics __________________ we as human beings are the only creatures on earth that can dream and set out to make that dream become true Current Tank Info: 90gal w/30gal sump, in sump fuge, aqua C EV 180 skimmer ran on a mag 9, 2x 250w pheonix mh and 4x 54w t5, ehiem 1262 for return, 2xphosban reactors(carbon,phosban), 2 x K4 for more circ

03/09/2007, 07:26 PM	#3
Scuba_Steve Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Pooler, Ga Posts: 1,342	they arnt from your skimmer? sorry had to ask the obvious first

03/09/2007, 07:41 PM	#7
RocketEngineer Space is big. Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Maryland Eastern Shore Posts: 3,226	You may have a pin hole somewhere in your return line. this is causing air to be drawn into the loc-line and once a large enough bubble forms it gets pushed into the tank. Turn off your return pump and see if you can notice any wet spots on the return lines. You need to turn off the pumps because otherwise the suction effect is pulling air in instead of letting water out. __________________ -RocketEngineer "Knowledge is what you get when you read the directions, experience is what you get when you don't." - Unknown Current Tank Info: None Currently

03/09/2007, 07:41 PM	#8
champscorner Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 276	__________________ we as human beings are the only creatures on earth that can dream and set out to make that dream become true Current Tank Info: 90gal w/30gal sump, in sump fuge, aqua C EV 180 skimmer ran on a mag 9, 2x 250w pheonix mh and 4x 54w t5, ehiem 1262 for return, 2xphosban reactors(carbon,phosban), 2 x K4 for more circ

03/09/2007, 07:42 PM	#9
scrmbld33 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: south jersey 08050 Posts: 2,394	sounds like you have to purge the air out of the return some how, sounds like air is building up/getting trapped in there, i try and keep my return straight up so air cant build up in there __________________ a left over shrimp shedding is not "a sicilian message meaning luca brasi sleeps with the fishes" fish are friends, not food Current Tank Info: 90gal salt, 2 250mh 14k hamiltons 2 110 actinic, 127lbs LR,50lbs tonga 70lbs indonesia 7lbs tonga branch asm g3

03/09/2007, 07:48 PM	#10
champscorner Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 276	how would the air be getting in??? so you think the 90's on the return line may have something to do with it. __________________ we as human beings are the only creatures on earth that can dream and set out to make that dream become true Current Tank Info: 90gal w/30gal sump, in sump fuge, aqua C EV 180 skimmer ran on a mag 9, 2x 250w pheonix mh and 4x 54w t5, ehiem 1262 for return, 2xphosban reactors(carbon,phosban), 2 x K4 for more circ

03/09/2007, 07:51 PM	#11
champscorner Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 276	Turn off your return pump and see if you can notice any wet spots on the return lines. You need to turn off the pumps because otherwise the suction effect is pulling air in instead of letting water out. just tried it. haven't seen anything initially but i will leave it off for a few more to see if i notice any water. __________________ we as human beings are the only creatures on earth that can dream and set out to make that dream become true Current Tank Info: 90gal w/30gal sump, in sump fuge, aqua C EV 180 skimmer ran on a mag 9, 2x 250w pheonix mh and 4x 54w t5, ehiem 1262 for return, 2xphosban reactors(carbon,phosban), 2 x K4 for more circ

03/09/2007, 07:57 PM	#12
scrmbld33 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: south jersey 08050 Posts: 2,394	if its not a pin hole, maybe airs getting trapped around the locline? is there less bubbles at wide open as opposed to partially blocked? __________________ a left over shrimp shedding is not "a sicilian message meaning luca brasi sleeps with the fishes" fish are friends, not food Current Tank Info: 90gal salt, 2 250mh 14k hamiltons 2 110 actinic, 127lbs LR,50lbs tonga 70lbs indonesia 7lbs tonga branch asm g3

03/09/2007, 08:04 PM	#13
champscorner Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 276	seems to be about the same with it throttled back but i just kicked the ball valve back a little bit. i do notice everytime i adjust the valve bubbles come flying out of the locline. not sure if this helps but also there are bubbles sticking all over the locline but no where else?? __________________ we as human beings are the only creatures on earth that can dream and set out to make that dream become true Current Tank Info: 90gal w/30gal sump, in sump fuge, aqua C EV 180 skimmer ran on a mag 9, 2x 250w pheonix mh and 4x 54w t5, ehiem 1262 for return, 2xphosban reactors(carbon,phosban), 2 x K4 for more circ

03/09/2007, 08:33 PM	#14
champscorner Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 276	where did everyone go? i thought we(ok maybe you guys)were about to have a break through. __________________ we as human beings are the only creatures on earth that can dream and set out to make that dream become true Current Tank Info: 90gal w/30gal sump, in sump fuge, aqua C EV 180 skimmer ran on a mag 9, 2x 250w pheonix mh and 4x 54w t5, ehiem 1262 for return, 2xphosban reactors(carbon,phosban), 2 x K4 for more circ

03/09/2007, 09:08 PM	#15
laserjim Another Day In Paradise Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,956	Try having your line from your tank to your sump flow into a sock first.That helps. __________________ Jim Current Tank Info: 430 gallon, 4 radion gen 3pro, 4 T5 bulbs, 60 inch Life Reef skimmer, Apex gold, 2 Dos dosers, ,80 gallon sump. 2 Cor pumps. 2 Ecotech MP 60 powerheads

03/09/2007, 11:10 PM	#16
DarthBaiter Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 662	looks like you have the return pump in the middle chamber? and the drain in the left and right chamber of the sump? If so, you are getting the bubbles from the right chamber with the teeth on it. I would do one of two things...first choice would be to re plump so that the return pump is in the left chamber and the drains goes in to the right an d middle with most of the water going to the right chamber, or if you are too lazy, i would just put a filter sock on the right chamber drain. P.S. Champ, your intrests....hicking? hope it involves a girl. __________________ "Fluke, I'm yo faddah, come join me on the DockSIde!" Current Tank Info: 90g reef display 30g sump, 75g display 10g sump, 30g cube display, 12g AP reef, 14g BC reef, and a 75g planted livebearer tank.

03/09/2007, 11:24 PM	#17
gkarshens Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Corona, CA Posts: 2,382	Is all of your loc-line submerged? If not it can suck in air at the joints. __________________ Gabriel It's about time!

03/10/2007, 07:47 AM	#18
champscorner Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 276	Is all of your loc-line submerged? If not it can suck in air at the joints.[/ actually the first 2 links were not submerged all the way. i just pushed them down but still have a part where it comes out of the return pvc(obviously) that is in the air. thanks for the tip i'll see if it works. , or if you are too lazy, i would just put a filter sock on the right chamber drain. actually i'm lazy especially when i'm hicking (good catch darth). ya i think i'll save the replumbing for a last resort after i try all these other smaller suggestions. But if you could explain why you think they're coming from the right chamber with the teeth and how would replumbing it in your manner help this. thanks man. __________________ we as human beings are the only creatures on earth that can dream and set out to make that dream become true Current Tank Info: 90gal w/30gal sump, in sump fuge, aqua C EV 180 skimmer ran on a mag 9, 2x 250w pheonix mh and 4x 54w t5, ehiem 1262 for return, 2xphosban reactors(carbon,phosban), 2 x K4 for more circ

03/10/2007, 03:01 PM	#19
scumonkey Moved On Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: NYC NY Posts: 467	so it turned out to be micro bubbles :^) At least it wasn't something fouling your water! I can get lazy too. I had a micro bubble problem that was driving me mad. Baffles in my sump didn't help either..... I made a decision that a lot of people on this board might not agree with but, it has worked like a charm for me. I got a very large filter sock and just dropped my return pump into it. All the water going back to my display must go through the sock to get to the pump....NO MORE BUBBLES!!! I decided that I could manually transfer my pods from the fuge if needed- easier than looking at bubbles. And I change the sock out often to keep down the nitrates.

03/10/2007, 03:40 PM	#20
DarthBaiter Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 662	I think it's the teeth chamber as I don't see the multi baffles that would trap the bubbles from the dursos. The bubbles are coming from the durso mixing water and air so that can't or shouldn't be hindered. The three baffles on the left side is what traps the bubbles as the water moves around em, the right side has none so the bubbles which would rise to the teeth would just spill over into the return pump and right back into the display. Try the sock on that drain only and if that stops the bubbles, I would look into repluming, as I think you can get better use out of the sump if the return was at one end and the water moved thru the teeth than the baffles to the return pump. You can than add micro algae in the middle with the skimmer and live rock rubble in the teeth chamber. You can than have the skimmer pump in the first or middle chamber and it returning to the middle chamber so that the bubbles from that is also trapped by the baffles. __________________ "Fluke, I'm yo faddah, come join me on the DockSIde!" Current Tank Info: 90g reef display 30g sump, 75g display 10g sump, 30g cube display, 12g AP reef, 14g BC reef, and a 75g planted livebearer tank.

03/10/2007, 04:44 PM	#21
eidillitih Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Euless Tx. Posts: 1,160	add another baffle on the right after the teeth baffle. Keep it 2 inches off the bottom. Bubbles will not travel underneath the baffle keeping bubbles out of the return area. __________________ What you achieve or fail to achieve is directly related to what you do or fail to do It's the Journey that makes the Destination so sweet C. Taylor, M.Ed. Current Tank Info: 190g, 250lbs Live Rock, Vertex Alpha skimmer, 2x Tunze 6100's, Vortech 40mp, Queit one return, 220watts vho, 750MH, 60gal. Melev Sump, DIY Stand and Canopy, JBJ 1/4 Chiller, and other Man toys