if bioballs are sooo bad......

[crhis]

......why are they still sold?
I think it's an anti Bioball conspiracy started by lr farmers .

[JOSEPHLB]

I'm sure not everyone runs a reef tank. Reef tanks require prestine, perfect water conditions. Over a period of time, bioballs diminish water quality. Maintaining clean bioballs requires more husbandry in addition of all the other duties.

[serpentman]

Bioballs are still used in FOWLR and freshwater applications. As a synthetic means to expand surface area for aerobic nitrifying bacteria, they are pretty good. However, unlike LR, they do not provide much in the way of living space for fauna such a pods, worms etc which eat the uneaten food that gets trapped in them. In time, this detritus can build up and actually contribute to higher nitrate levels. OK in other systems, bad in reefs.

[papagimp]

Heres what you need to know. Bioballs, by there very nature ad design allow bacteria plenty of oxygen. This allows for excellent biological filtration. Just as you would get from a wet/dry setup or canister filter loaded with bio media. They DO do a fabulous job tearing the ammonia and nitrite from a system. The only downside, and this is the big one, is that they do absolutely nothing for nitrate reducation. Due to the large amount of oxygen that is allowed to reach the bacteria colonized on them. And as a result, you'll get great bio filtering with increasing nitrate levels that need to be removed by other means. The bioballs themselves are actually a great design and work just as designed. They can even be used effectively in a reef setup, you just have to have plenty of nutrient export. fwiw, having a decent sandbed and plenty of live rock 1.5-2lbs per gallon will do away with any need for the bioballs plus give you more natural nitrate reduction, and this is more effecvitive in the long run. They actually do give grammarus shrimp and other amphipods plenty of living space. The smaller coepods as well. But grammarus in particular like to cling to whatever and bioballs have plenty of glinging space. I had some of the best populations of amphipods in my setup when I was still using a wetdry loaded with bioballs. Of course a big ball of cheatomorphia will work even better.

[Travis L. Stevens]

You got it, papagimp! They are quite simply still sold for freshwater applications where filtration tends to be minimum, and to those that lack the knowledge to know any better.

[drummereef]

Nice, papagimp! But, why are they still sold?... Because newbs still buy them. BTW, that was me 10 years ago.

[savethereef]

lol yeah i learned with in 1 month bioballs were bad. But i found out after got them. So word to newbies dont buy bioballs

[papagimp]

They are still sold because they are still an excellent source of biological filtering. despite their drawbacks. In a freshwater system they work wonders. But then again, we dont' utilize refugiums and skimmers on a freshwater system, the closest thing I think we have is a well densly planted tank. Otherwise it's a matter of water changes to reduce nitrates.

In a marine system the liverock and sandbeds can actually cause natural nitrate reduction but alot of tanks do not have sufficient live rock, sandbed, or a refugium and they rely soley on their skimmers and water changes for nitrate reduction. With a decent skimmer, fuge, and LR/LS, I would think bioballs would work out nicely. The bioballs themselves do not "make" nitrates, nor do they "add" to nitrates. The bacteria on them simply does not eat the nitrates out of the water column. So if you have enough anerobic zones in the tank colonized appropriately and naturally reducing nitrates, I would not think bioballs would even be a factor. But I've yet to put that to the test.

So answer put simply: Bioballs are still sold cause they are one of the most effective means at biological filtering. Bacteria eats the ammonia, converting it to nitrites, and that into nitrates. Wa-la, that is biological filtering. Bacteria eating the nitrates is going one step further and not exactly neccessary since proper maintanance will reduce nitrates as well i.e. water changes.

One last tidbit. Bioballs are also almost comletely useless to have in a reef system since we rely on the rock and sand for filtering purposes. It would be like having 200lbs of LR in your 100g tank, and still adding a HOB powerfilter to fitler your tank. It's just not needed. The tank is filtered enough already with the rock.

[Paintbug]

they have a nick name of nitrate factories. like others have mentioned they are great for FW or fish only marine setups. but while they do provide an excellent source for aerobic bacteria to grow, and they break down ammonia to nitrite, nitrite to nitrates, but they cant break down nitrates to nitrogen, thus high levels of nitrates form. high levels of nitrates can cause corals to produce excess zooanthelle, and turn brown. the nitrates can and will also cause soft corals to just melt away in time.

the reason LR is so much better is it will have anaerobic bacteria growing on it. this bacteria is what breaks down nitrates to nitrogen gas, and allows it to escape the tank. there are ways to use bio-balls and allow them to have anaerobic bacteria as well. but you just have to keep them under water completely, and make it were very little oxygen can come in contact with them.

[Smith's]

Will using Carbon Filters with a reef tank give kind of the same situation. We used them for our fresh and left them in when converting to Salt. Everyone said we didn't need them but it wouldn't hurt. we have like 70 lbs lr in 55 gal. My nitrates are high, like 20 ppm

[SeaView]

Everyone said we didn't need them but it wouldn't hurt

Well now you see that that is not true. They can in some ways hurt the balance of your biological filtration by producing excess nitrates. Way back when - I'd say about 12 years ago when this debate first came up - Bioballs vs liverock. I was on the bioballs side. Would have been hard to find a set up without bioballs in the sump at the time.

I had a small reef tank with LR and Bioballs. Dispite weekly water changes and a fairly low bioload my nitrates were high. I had just read "The Reef Aquarium I" By sprung and Delbeek. They suggested removing the bioballs all at once. Although I was a bit hesitant I removed them. Within a week my nitrates fell to 0. I was amazed.

So if you have LR you really don't need the bioballs and they will increase your nitrates.

[Young Frankenstein]

What if you have a nice setup with an outdoor refugium ? will then be benficial to still use bio balls ?

[SeaView]

As already stated the BBs do a great job of converting ammonia to nitrite and then to nitrate. Too good. The biological filtration is taking place outside of the tank. If it were occuring only in the LR then the some of the nitrates would be coverted at the same time. With BBs there is no breakdown of nitrates. So these are pumped back into the tank and become harder for the LR to remove.

What if you have a nice setup with an outdoor refugium ?

Your refugium may be doing a good job at controlling the nitrates. But if you have a sufficient amount of Live rock anda DSB in the tank then I think your refugium may be working harder than it needs to.

I use bioballs for filtration in my pond. No live rock. It is well planted and the plants help to reduce the excess nitrates.

[tropicalraspberry gu]

Okay - but what if you maintain the bioballs - example take out and clean/rinse 1/3rd of them every couple of months? I have a small biocube 14 that I am running with LR, but I have left the bioballs in and clean them on occasion. I do 15-20% water changes every week and I NEVER can measure any nitrates?

thanks,

[SeaView]

Originally posted by tropicalraspberry gu
Okay - but what if you maintain the bioballs - example take out and clean/rinse 1/3rd of them every couple of months? I have a small biocube 14 that I am running with LR, but I have left the bioballs in and clean them on occasion. I do 15-20% water changes every week and I NEVER can measure any nitrates?

thanks,

Cleaning the bioballs will not enable them to reduce nitrates. That is being taken care of by your frequent water changes and the liverock.

[gerwen]

Originally posted by tropicalraspberry gu
Okay - but what if you maintain the bioballs - example take out and clean/rinse 1/3rd of them every couple of months? I have a small biocube 14 that I am running with LR, but I have left the bioballs in and clean them on occasion. I do 15-20% water changes every week and I NEVER can measure any nitrates?

thanks,

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

However, it may serve your tank well to remove the bioballs (slowly, not all at once, as your bio filtration may depend on them).

Replace them with live rock rubble, a submersible halogen lamp, and some macro algae like chaeto. This will provide some nitrate export, as, a little more water volume (as you can fill the second chamber) and more live rock.

[coast2coast7390]

i bought bio balls for theyre ability to provide an excelent source of bacteria...on my thirty all i run is a filter pad and a DIY wet dry...no nitrates

papagimp
most people dont run a refugium in a freshwater tank but you can Ecosystem provides a refugium mud for fresh water applications...great for discus tanks...im not saying to go out an get it but the equipment is out there

[SeaView]

i bought bio balls for theyre ability to provide an excelent source of bacteria

Yes the are excellent at removing ammonia and nitrite. BBs have no ability to remove nitrates. denitrating bacteria can only grow in areas of very low or no oxigen. A wet dry is an area of very high 02. If you have no Nitrates than they are being exported by another means - Not the bioballs.

In most reef tanks ammonia and nitrate are sufficiently controlled by the live rock. Adding additional biological filtration in the form of bioball, outside of the tank to further assist in the break down of nitrites will lead to an increase in nitrate production in an area of the system with no ability to remove/reduce it.

[coast2coast7390]

Originally posted by SeaView
Yes the are excellent at removing ammonia and nitrite. BBs have no ability to remove nitrates. denitrating bacteria can only grow in areas of very low or no oxigen. A wet dry is an area of very high 02. If you have no Nitrates than they are being exported by another means - Not the bioballs.

In most reef tanks ammonia and nitrate are sufficiently controlled by the live rock. Adding additional biological filtration in the form of bioball, outside of the tank to further assist in the break down of nitrites will lead to an increase in nitrate production in an area of the system with no ability to remove/reduce it.

i kno they cant remove nitrates thats why i do water changes
i have fish only and FOWLR... both with heavy feedings because of heavy fish load...