Small footprint/Decent output Ca Reactor

bureau13 · 03/15/2007, 01:56 PM

Hey all,

As I'm starting to add more stonies to my tank, I'm realizing that the kalk reactor and the occasional manual additions of suplements is not going to cut it. The thing is I have almost no remaining space under my stand. I may have to hide it behind the nearby sofar or something, next to my chiller. In anycase, its going to need to be fairly small, but of course I also need it to have the capacity to handle a 240 gal tank with a mix of SPS and LPS and some clams.

I know the Schuran Jetstream 1 has a pretty small footprint, and can mount to a vertical surface (in fact it is already mounted to one). However, its expensive, you apparently need to use a peristaltic pump with it, and I've been reading about people have problems getting it to work consistently well.

Any recommendations?

jds

bureau13 · 03/17/2007, 08:25 AM

Shameless self-bump...

Henry Bowman · 03/17/2007, 08:28 AM

The small footprint is an issue that I had as well. I talked to one Schuran distributor that getting parts for the Schuran reactors is nearly impossible.... FWIW.

I use a Geo 612. It's not the smallest reactor but it has rock solid consistent output. If you can fit it, it's what I'd recommend.

sean_nj · 03/17/2007, 09:53 AM

Korallin C-3002 or Korallin C-1502. The footprint is about 6"x6" for both, and the reactor stands on itsown. Korallin is much more easier to operate than Schuran.

Sean

Mike de Leon · 03/17/2007, 12:04 PM

Schuran is an excellent product. It does not leach any CO2 into the tank and continues to cycle it until used. I currently have a Pico which is very small. Keeps my CA at over 420.

hahnmeister · 03/17/2007, 12:45 PM

Korallin or Deltec. Like Sean said, its a very small footprint because the pump is mounted on the top of the reactor. The PF509 is also tall and narrow with a pump mounted on top...
http://www.deltecusa.us/calciumreactors/pf509.php

As a bonus, the deltec also has the highest output of any Ca reactor, 80dKH and above! Most other reactors top out at half that. So if high output is what you desire...

bureau13 · 03/17/2007, 11:41 PM

I was just reading about the Deltec...that does sound pretty good! Its also pretty expensive but...

I've heard the Schuran comments about leaching CO2 into the tank before...but do the other ones really have this problem? I am fighting some low pH issues right now, so I'd hate to drive it even lower...but I'm not sure if that's really a significant advantage with the Schuran or more of a "marketing breakthrough."

I know the Korallin has been around a long time, so its pretty proven...although I've read some complaints about it as well, mainly along the lines of ease of use.

jds

hahnmeister · 03/18/2007, 01:02 AM

the deltec doesnt have those complaints. They did have a couple minor problems when used with other mfg's media, but they have been addressed in the current generation of models.

Goodwood · 03/18/2007, 01:14 AM

Im ordering one this week (tired of dosing) and will most likely go with a Geo 618, they seem pretty solid. I too would love a Deltec their products are worth every penny but, college and Deltecs are pretty hard for me to swing.

bureau13 · 03/18/2007, 07:42 AM

From a description of the Geo: "Bottom up flow of water captures free CO2 and draws it back into the pump. This means less gas in the reactor and less gas in the effluent. There is no need for a second single pass chamber with our design"

That sounds like it shouldn't have the CO2-in-tank problem either...I'm pretty sure the Korallin has a similar design. Does this just help the problem, without eliminating it? Sorry to turn this thread into a Ca Reactor 101 FAQ (hey, why am I apologizing...its my thread!

)

jds

Quote:

Originally posted by hahnmeister
the deltec doesnt have those complaints. They did have a couple minor problems when used with other mfg's media, but they have been addressed in the current generation of models.

1SickReefer · 03/18/2007, 08:02 AM

I would not put a Schuran on my system if someone gave it to me!

And yes this is speaking from experience... I bought a schuran, right out of the box it leaked. Getting the replacement part was a 2 month ordeal. Dealing with schuran customer service was a nightmare...

I switched to a GEO 618 and have not had to touch in since.

elephen · 03/18/2007, 08:16 AM

Smallest out there: www.aquaticsystemsdesign.com

chamber capacity (cubic inches) 170
Suggested Capacity (gallons) max 150
Base Footprint 8.25" x 7.0"
Overall Height 15"
Reaction Chamber Height 12"
Reaction Chamber Dia. 4.5
Media Capacity (lbs) 3.5
Ph Probe Port in chamber included
Circulation Pump Included Eheim 1048
Recommended Feed pump Maxijet 400/600
Input Size 1/2" ID tube 1/2" ID tube
Output Size 1/4" OD tube
Price $263.99

That is from a post of his on another board. He also makes a smaller reactor too.

bureau13 · 03/18/2007, 08:24 AM

That is pretty small, although from the footprint perspective, it seems fairly typical. Also...my tank is 240 gal so I don't think it would be enough capacity. Do they make a taller version?

jds

hahnmeister · 03/18/2007, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bureau13
From a description of the Geo: "Bottom up flow of water captures free CO2 and draws it back into the pump. This means less gas in the reactor and less gas in the effluent. There is no need for a second single pass chamber with our design"

That sounds like it shouldn't have the CO2-in-tank problem either...I'm pretty sure the Korallin has a similar design. Does this just help the problem, without eliminating it? Sorry to turn this thread into a Ca Reactor 101 FAQ (hey, why am I apologizing...its my thread! )

jds

Most of the better reactors do use the 'upflow' idea, and IMO, the GEO 'borrows' many of its other design aspects as well from the korallin (bubble counter look familiar?). The GEO just mounts its pump next to the chamber so it has a much larger footprint (as well as a larger chamber diameter for the size of pump that is used). The big advantage of the deltec is how it fluidizes the media, and provides such a greater contact area between the CO2 and media. pretty much, the faster the turnover inside the reactor (or larger the pump for a given tube diameter), the better the output.

SDguy · 03/18/2007, 12:09 PM

I bought my Korallin 1502 for it's tiny footprint. I'm happy with it. I would think the larger model would be fine for a 240 mixed reef....perhaps not for an SPS only reef. I dose kalk to offset any pH drop.

bureau13 · 03/18/2007, 12:20 PM

Anyone ever try a Knop S IV? 7" diameter footprint, the Marine Depot site claims 75-600 gallons (pretty wide range there). Its not cheap either...

jds

bureau13 · 03/18/2007, 12:22 PM

SDGuy, MD claims up to 400 gal on the 1502...are these ratings similar to skimmer ratings, i.e. vastly optimistic?

jds

bureau13 · 03/18/2007, 12:31 PM

Hey, here's something I never really thought to ask...can these all be put in the sump, or do they have to stay dry?

elephen · 03/18/2007, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bureau13
That is pretty small, although from the footprint perspective, it seems fairly typical. Also...my tank is 240 gal so I don't think it would be enough capacity. Do they make a taller version?

jds

He makes reactors for all the way up to 1500 gal systems. Plus he'll do custom work if need-be.

hahnmeister · 03/18/2007, 10:54 PM

Here are a couple things to consider...

The size of a reactor determines the time in between refills, not so much the output. Sure, there are some limiting factors to a reactor based on the size of the recirculating pump, cross-section of the media, etc... but for the most part, if you want a 1502 to run a 100g tank or a 300g tank, its just a matter of raising the throughput of the reactor, and then to keep the pH in the reactor the same, raise the CO2 input as well.

Another one to look into would be the H&S reactors... the pump goes underneath and so not only is the footprint small, but the access through the lid is better than say, the Korallin...
http://www.finsreef.com/home.php?cat=250
Nice pricing too.

As for the kalk and pH problems... one reason I suggest the deltec is because everyone I know who runs one has no use for a kalk reactor, and owners of many other reactor brands often do. Most Ca reactors have a hard time keeping up with the alkalinity needed, or lower pH... this is not so with the Deltecs. They have such a high output that the pH stays high. Some people only run the reactor when the lights are on or during the day, to avoid the dip in pH that happens with many minireefs at night... the output is high enough.

The Deltec may seem $$$, but consider the money you will save by never needing a kalk reactor and a dosing system to go with it. Go ahead and ask Deltec Ca reactor owners to post their opinions... they will tell you the same thing... I bet one in ten runs a kalk reactor, and prolly doesnt even need it (most likely had is before the deltec and continues running it for the hack of it).

03/15/2007, 01:56 PM	#1
bureau13 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Florida Posts: 1,936	Small footprint/Decent output Ca Reactor Hey all, As I'm starting to add more stonies to my tank, I'm realizing that the kalk reactor and the occasional manual additions of suplements is not going to cut it. The thing is I have almost no remaining space under my stand. I may have to hide it behind the nearby sofar or something, next to my chiller. In anycase, its going to need to be fairly small, but of course I also need it to have the capacity to handle a 240 gal tank with a mix of SPS and LPS and some clams. I know the Schuran Jetstream 1 has a pretty small footprint, and can mount to a vertical surface (in fact it is already mounted to one). However, its expensive, you apparently need to use a peristaltic pump with it, and I've been reading about people have problems getting it to work consistently well. Any recommendations? jds

03/17/2007, 08:28 AM	#3
Henry Bowman Reefing since '87 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Allegheny Mountains of VA Posts: 2,162	The small footprint is an issue that I had as well. I talked to one Schuran distributor that getting parts for the Schuran reactors is nearly impossible.... FWIW. I use a Geo 612. It's not the smallest reactor but it has rock solid consistent output. If you can fit it, it's what I'd recommend. __________________ Have a good'un Current Tank Info: 90 gl SPS dominant / upgrade in the works

03/17/2007, 12:04 PM	#5
Mike de Leon Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Ont. Canada Posts: 2,308	Schuran is an excellent product. It does not leach any CO2 into the tank and continues to cycle it until used. I currently have a Pico which is very small. Keeps my CA at over 420. __________________ Blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.. Current Tank Info: 180 Gallon, 3 G4 Radions

03/17/2007, 12:45 PM	#6
hahnmeister Moved On Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Brew City, WI Posts: 10,156	Korallin or Deltec. Like Sean said, its a very small footprint because the pump is mounted on the top of the reactor. The PF509 is also tall and narrow with a pump mounted on top... http://www.deltecusa.us/calciumreactors/pf509.php As a bonus, the deltec also has the highest output of any Ca reactor, 80dKH and above! Most other reactors top out at half that. So if high output is what you desire... Last edited by hahnmeister; 03/17/2007 at 12:58 PM.

03/18/2007, 12:09 PM	#15
SDguy Fish heads unite! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 23,384	I bought my Korallin 1502 for it's tiny footprint. I'm happy with it. I would think the larger model would be fine for a 240 mixed reef....perhaps not for an SPS only reef. I dose kalk to offset any pH drop. __________________ Peter SDMAS member Marine tanks since 1989. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º> Current Tank Info: 240g butterfly and angel FOWLR. 15g QT.

03/17/2007, 08:25 AM	#2
bureau13 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Florida Posts: 1,936	Shameless self-bump...

03/17/2007, 09:53 AM	#4
sean_nj Registered Member. Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Princeton New Jersey Posts: 466	Korallin C-3002 or Korallin C-1502. The footprint is about 6"x6" for both, and the reactor stands on itsown. Korallin is much more easier to operate than Schuran. Sean

03/17/2007, 11:41 PM	#7
bureau13 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Florida Posts: 1,936	I was just reading about the Deltec...that does sound pretty good! Its also pretty expensive but... I've heard the Schuran comments about leaching CO2 into the tank before...but do the other ones really have this problem? I am fighting some low pH issues right now, so I'd hate to drive it even lower...but I'm not sure if that's really a significant advantage with the Schuran or more of a "marketing breakthrough." I know the Korallin has been around a long time, so its pretty proven...although I've read some complaints about it as well, mainly along the lines of ease of use. jds

03/18/2007, 01:02 AM	#8
hahnmeister Moved On Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Brew City, WI Posts: 10,156	the deltec doesnt have those complaints. They did have a couple minor problems when used with other mfg's media, but they have been addressed in the current generation of models.

03/18/2007, 01:14 AM	#9
Goodwood Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Destin, Florida Posts: 700	Im ordering one this week (tired of dosing) and will most likely go with a Geo 618, they seem pretty solid. I too would love a Deltec their products are worth every penny but, college and Deltecs are pretty hard for me to swing.

03/18/2007, 08:02 AM	#11
1SickReefer Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Perryville, MD Posts: 1,048	I would not put a Schuran on my system if someone gave it to me! And yes this is speaking from experience... I bought a schuran, right out of the box it leaked. Getting the replacement part was a 2 month ordeal. Dealing with schuran customer service was a nightmare... I switched to a GEO 618 and have not had to touch in since.

03/18/2007, 08:16 AM	#12
elephen Moved On Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: kc Posts: 2,763	Smallest out there: www.aquaticsystemsdesign.com chamber capacity (cubic inches) 170 Suggested Capacity (gallons) max 150 Base Footprint 8.25" x 7.0" Overall Height 15" Reaction Chamber Height 12" Reaction Chamber Dia. 4.5 Media Capacity (lbs) 3.5 Ph Probe Port in chamber included Circulation Pump Included Eheim 1048 Recommended Feed pump Maxijet 400/600 Input Size 1/2" ID tube 1/2" ID tube Output Size 1/4" OD tube Price $263.99 That is from a post of his on another board. He also makes a smaller reactor too.

03/18/2007, 08:24 AM	#13
bureau13 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Florida Posts: 1,936	That is pretty small, although from the footprint perspective, it seems fairly typical. Also...my tank is 240 gal so I don't think it would be enough capacity. Do they make a taller version? jds

03/18/2007, 12:20 PM	#16
bureau13 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Florida Posts: 1,936	Anyone ever try a Knop S IV? 7" diameter footprint, the Marine Depot site claims 75-600 gallons (pretty wide range there). Its not cheap either... jds

03/18/2007, 12:22 PM	#17
bureau13 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Florida Posts: 1,936	SDGuy, MD claims up to 400 gal on the 1502...are these ratings similar to skimmer ratings, i.e. vastly optimistic? jds

03/18/2007, 12:31 PM	#18
bureau13 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Florida Posts: 1,936	Hey, here's something I never really thought to ask...can these all be put in the sump, or do they have to stay dry?

03/18/2007, 10:54 PM	#20
hahnmeister Moved On Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Brew City, WI Posts: 10,156	Here are a couple things to consider... The size of a reactor determines the time in between refills, not so much the output. Sure, there are some limiting factors to a reactor based on the size of the recirculating pump, cross-section of the media, etc... but for the most part, if you want a 1502 to run a 100g tank or a 300g tank, its just a matter of raising the throughput of the reactor, and then to keep the pH in the reactor the same, raise the CO2 input as well. Another one to look into would be the H&S reactors... the pump goes underneath and so not only is the footprint small, but the access through the lid is better than say, the Korallin... http://www.finsreef.com/home.php?cat=250 Nice pricing too. As for the kalk and pH problems... one reason I suggest the deltec is because everyone I know who runs one has no use for a kalk reactor, and owners of many other reactor brands often do. Most Ca reactors have a hard time keeping up with the alkalinity needed, or lower pH... this is not so with the Deltecs. They have such a high output that the pH stays high. Some people only run the reactor when the lights are on or during the day, to avoid the dip in pH that happens with many minireefs at night... the output is high enough. The Deltec may seem $$$, but consider the money you will save by never needing a kalk reactor and a dosing system to go with it. Go ahead and ask Deltec Ca reactor owners to post their opinions... they will tell you the same thing... I bet one in ten runs a kalk reactor, and prolly doesnt even need it (most likely had is before the deltec and continues running it for the hack of it).