H&S A150-F2001 vs Deltec AP600 vs BM 200

Zoos · 03/21/2007, 02:56 PM

Just like the title says, i will be setting up a new tank pretty soon and have started to buy equipment. it will be a shallow 90g with a 40g sump. SPS dominated BB. I will be buying one of these 3 skimmers and would like to hear everyones opinions. preferably unbiased

(i know that's a lot to ask but i could try) Everyones opinion is welcomed, however i do not want people fighting/attacking each other please. There have been several threads like this one that end up getting locked needlessly and i am trying to avoid that. thanks in advance.

Please post pictures if you have them also if you have owned more than one of the skimmers i have listed please let me know how they compare. they are all in a similar price range with the BM being the cheapest and the H&S being the most expensive but by very little. We can all learn something from this thread (hoping i will) and i'm sure others are wondering the same as me and considering the same skimmers. lets make the best of it.
thanks again.

Felix

manderx · 03/21/2007, 03:29 PM

the ap600 isn't in the same class as the H&S, you'd need to bump up to the apf600 to compare fairly to the H&S.

Zoos · 03/21/2007, 07:56 PM

I'm aware of that, but remember they compare in price, and it is in my budget, I'm not trying to be fair I'm trying to be realistic. If the the AP600 will not perform as good as the H&S or the BM on my tank then I will not consider a Deltec, not move up to the APF600. See what I mean? thanks though.

Anyone else want to shed some light on the subject?

sjm817 · 03/21/2007, 08:16 PM

I'd say the A150. Owners of BM200's are having issues with them at the moment, so I would not consider one until ATI gets that worked out.

Jim_S · 03/21/2007, 08:21 PM

If you're looking at price to performance, the H&S is a stonger skimmer, for cheaper.

The BM's look cool. There are issues, but the manufacture continues to stand by their product. I wouldn't call them tried and true like the Deltecs and H&S's, but I'm sure they skim well when they're up and running.

I used an A150 in the past, and was very satisfied with the results. I'm toying with the idea of trying out a deltec, but I'm not sure if I'll pull the trigger.

I'd like to try out the BM externals if they make one, but the fact that the thread wheel's in general cause the skimmer to loose its foam head very easily would frustrate me. My ER is ALWAYS up and running (barring gnarly selcon sessions

).

I'll just have to wait and see. I really wish someone near me owned or sold BM's.

Cheers,

Jim

dirtyreefer · 03/21/2007, 08:22 PM

H&S for sure. The AP600 is a smaller pump, and way overpriced IMO.

USC-fan · 03/21/2007, 08:25 PM

i would also get the h&S out of those skimmer. But the bm200 most likely has the best performance.

anydarnthing · 03/21/2007, 08:37 PM

I have a BM250 and a H&S A200 3xF2001 and I'm getting rid of the BM250 and getting a H&S A250 2x1260 so take what you want from that. Remember replacement part costs for a H&S is about half what Deltec would charge. I'm lazy and I don't want to tweak my skimmer everyday like the BM, my H&S is set it and leave it alone.

Jim_S · 03/21/2007, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by anydarnthing
I'm lazy and I don't want to tweak my skimmer everyday like the BM, my H&S is set it and leave it alone.

I couldn't agree more!!!!!

I want the smaller bubbles and the diffuser, but I don't want to always mess with it.

sjm817 · 03/21/2007, 09:16 PM

As someone who owns an ATI BM250, I would have to disagree about the need for constant daily tweaking. Once you have it dialed in, you don't need to do anything. Its actually a very stable, no fuss simple skimmer. I've been doing a bunch of tweaking to my setup, but it is not the skimmer itself, but how I have it setup in the sump. There is no air adjustment, no feed rate. There is one adjustment and that is water height. That's it. Once you have that set, you dont touch a thing. It has not required any more daily tweaking than my ASM, Deltec or ER did. With all of them, it took some time to get it working just right, and that more because of my need to fiddle with things than anything else.

The BM200s are having issues right now and ATI is working on it. As above, I would not consider one until that is resolved.

Jim_S · 03/21/2007, 09:29 PM

So yours doesn't require constant attention? Very good to know

anydarnthing,

What type of adjustments do have to do on your skimmer? I wonder why your experience is different than sjm's?

sjm817 · 03/21/2007, 09:38 PM

No, it doesn't at all and I think you know I would be biatching about it if it did!

The thing is, these are new skimmers and they have gone through and are still undergoing changes. The tweaking/fiddling you see going on in the forums are people dialing in a new skimmer.

As above, there is only one adjustment. You set the water level and you're done. I never adjust anything.

anydarnthing · 03/22/2007, 05:20 AM

My skimmer is from the initial batch and every month or so it just decides to overflow. I think it would be a great external skimmer but I need to tweak it every day to get max efficiency from it.

sjm817 · 03/22/2007, 05:35 AM

Mine is batch 3, the type with the wingnut riser adjustment. As before, I never adjust anything. It has never overflowed. It just sits there and does its thing.

dkh0331 · 03/22/2007, 07:52 AM

I have the H&S A150-F2001. It was OK until I plumbed it directly to my drain line. Now, you'd have to pry it from my cold dead hands.

Zoos · 03/22/2007, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dkh0331
I have the H&S A150-F2001. It was OK until I plumbed it directly to my drain line. Now, you'd have to pry it from my cold dead hands.

So you saw a big improvement with the direct feed?

Also i would like to thank everyone for their input, please keep it coming.

14 replies and no fighting, I'm impressed. this is how it always should be, just opinions, facts and constructive criticism.

Zoos · 03/22/2007, 04:47 PM

Would the A150-F2001 be too much for my tank? Will the A110 do it? The tank will be light-medium bio load. A lot of people say you can over skim a tank. I am not one of those people, i do however think that maybe it will be overkill in the sense that it may not be skimming more, because there is nothing more to skim. and i can use the smaller model to do the same, did that make sense? If it didn't i will try to explain it again.
Felix

jocoxVT · 03/22/2007, 04:56 PM

I run the A150-2001 on my 100 cube with a roughly 35 gallon capacity sump and 20 gallon frag tank I rarely feed my fish due to traveling so much for work and my skimmer is constantly producing good skimmate week after week with no adjustments needed I literally set it originally and havent really touched it since. I have a heavy coral load SPS dominant as well as I have a fair fish load but like I said my tank goes without feeding the majority of times due to work. I think you will be fine with the A150-2001 that is what I would suggest for your tank size plus this way you have flexibility if you overstock or if you add a frag tank or even upgrade (assuming you dont go upgrading to something ridiculous).

HTH

McCrary · 03/22/2007, 05:16 PM

I run an H&S 200-1260 on my 110 and I don't think its too much, so the A150-2001 would be great for your 90 with 40 gallon sump.

Zoos · 03/22/2007, 11:30 PM

Thanks, just what i was looking for.

How do you guys have yours set up, direct feed from the overflow?

palawan · 03/22/2007, 11:51 PM

I have the BM200 and I bought it from KM associates. I have the 1st gen model and there are some issues but I think they will be solved soon. I am on of the tweaker do-it-yourself guys and so far I have improved the skimmer to skim between very wet to very dry IMO with some mods that I think ATI is going to issue soon. The owners of the BM250s don't see the issues like owners of the 200s. The main item that affects performance of the 200s is the mesh wheel size. Trying to produce the meshwheels to be the same on each skimmer is difficult and it does determine the air intake which I have seen effects bubble size and skimmate production. I am very happy with this skimmer and once the production models come out with the new mods the demand will increase and so will price IMO.

dkh0331 · 03/23/2007, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zoos
So you saw a big improvement with the direct feed?

Yes. At minimum, I would SWAG at least a 50% increase.

Khaley · 03/23/2007, 05:16 AM

I have the BM200 3rd gen on a 120g - I don't tweek. Mainly I don't know enough to fiddle with the equipment. I set the skimmer and left it alone and it has worked great. Pulls a ton of skim out of the tank. Took two weeks to "break in" and has been working great ever since.

Creetin · 03/23/2007, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sjm817
Mine is batch 3, the type with the wingnut riser adjustment. As before, I never adjust anything. It has never overflowed. It just sits there and does its thing.

I Have the first batch of BM250 like the other guy, But i don't have the do a thing to it, I haven't touched it other than to clean the cup.
All i get is nasty STINKY skimmate.
I dunno the 200's problems, but 2 our of the 3 are a week old.
Only 1 looks to be the only having more complex issues other than braking in. JMO I am sure it will get woked out.
I plan on buying the external when out. I will probably keep the 250 just for spare pumps!

Zoos · 03/23/2007, 06:39 AM

dkh0331 - It seems everywhere i read that the direct feed does a lot. I will be trying it that way.

Khaley - Do you have any pictures of that BM in action?

Thanks guys
keep the info coming. we're all learning something.

03/21/2007, 02:56 PM	#1
Zoos Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 1,334	H&S A150-F2001 vs Deltec AP600 vs BM 200 Just like the title says, i will be setting up a new tank pretty soon and have started to buy equipment. it will be a shallow 90g with a 40g sump. SPS dominated BB. I will be buying one of these 3 skimmers and would like to hear everyones opinions. preferably unbiased (i know that's a lot to ask but i could try) Everyones opinion is welcomed, however i do not want people fighting/attacking each other please. There have been several threads like this one that end up getting locked needlessly and i am trying to avoid that. thanks in advance. Please post pictures if you have them also if you have owned more than one of the skimmers i have listed please let me know how they compare. they are all in a similar price range with the BM being the cheapest and the H&S being the most expensive but by very little. We can all learn something from this thread (hoping i will) and i'm sure others are wondering the same as me and considering the same skimmers. lets make the best of it. thanks again. Felix __________________ "The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education." Current Tank Info: None.

03/21/2007, 07:56 PM	#3
Zoos Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 1,334	I'm aware of that, but remember they compare in price, and it is in my budget, I'm not trying to be fair I'm trying to be realistic. If the the AP600 will not perform as good as the H&S or the BM on my tank then I will not consider a Deltec, not move up to the APF600. See what I mean? thanks though. Anyone else want to shed some light on the subject? __________________ "The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education." Current Tank Info: None.

03/21/2007, 08:16 PM	#4
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	I'd say the A150. Owners of BM200's are having issues with them at the moment, so I would not consider one until ATI gets that worked out. __________________ - Scott

03/21/2007, 08:21 PM	#5
Jim_S Timo Boll Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 5,333	If you're looking at price to performance, the H&S is a stonger skimmer, for cheaper. The BM's look cool. There are issues, but the manufacture continues to stand by their product. I wouldn't call them tried and true like the Deltecs and H&S's, but I'm sure they skim well when they're up and running. I used an A150 in the past, and was very satisfied with the results. I'm toying with the idea of trying out a deltec, but I'm not sure if I'll pull the trigger. I'd like to try out the BM externals if they make one, but the fact that the thread wheel's in general cause the skimmer to loose its foam head very easily would frustrate me. My ER is ALWAYS up and running (barring gnarly selcon sessions ). I'll just have to wait and see. I really wish someone near me owned or sold BM's. Cheers, Jim __________________ We will survive in this world of competition, shooting guns and our ammunition... Bradley Nowell Current Tank Info: We're recreating the ocean in our livings rooms. With that said, I've had some ups and downs.

03/21/2007, 08:37 PM	#8
anydarnthing Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Omaha Posts: 657	I have a BM250 and a H&S A200 3xF2001 and I'm getting rid of the BM250 and getting a H&S A250 2x1260 so take what you want from that. Remember replacement part costs for a H&S is about half what Deltec would charge. I'm lazy and I don't want to tweak my skimmer everyday like the BM, my H&S is set it and leave it alone. __________________ No good deed goes unpunished... Current Tank Info: 240gal softy Reef, 220gal Reef, 29gal Nano reef, 75gal holding tank, H&S A200 3xF2001 & A250 2x1260, 2x 72" Current Orbit 250W MH actinic T5's. Geo Calcium Rx.

03/21/2007, 03:29 PM	#2
manderx Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Christiansburg, VA Posts: 4,893	the ap600 isn't in the same class as the H&S, you'd need to bump up to the apf600 to compare fairly to the H&S.

03/21/2007, 08:22 PM	#6
dirtyreefer Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Vancouver Canada Posts: 2,221	H&S for sure. The AP600 is a smaller pump, and way overpriced IMO.

03/21/2007, 08:25 PM	#7
USC-fan Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 3,626	i would also get the h&S out of those skimmer. But the bm200 most likely has the best performance.

03/21/2007, 09:16 PM	#10
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	As someone who owns an ATI BM250, I would have to disagree about the need for constant daily tweaking. Once you have it dialed in, you don't need to do anything. Its actually a very stable, no fuss simple skimmer. I've been doing a bunch of tweaking to my setup, but it is not the skimmer itself, but how I have it setup in the sump. There is no air adjustment, no feed rate. There is one adjustment and that is water height. That's it. Once you have that set, you dont touch a thing. It has not required any more daily tweaking than my ASM, Deltec or ER did. With all of them, it took some time to get it working just right, and that more because of my need to fiddle with things than anything else. The BM200s are having issues right now and ATI is working on it. As above, I would not consider one until that is resolved. __________________ - Scott

03/21/2007, 09:29 PM	#11
Jim_S Timo Boll Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 5,333	So yours doesn't require constant attention? Very good to know anydarnthing, What type of adjustments do have to do on your skimmer? I wonder why your experience is different than sjm's? __________________ We will survive in this world of competition, shooting guns and our ammunition... Bradley Nowell Current Tank Info: We're recreating the ocean in our livings rooms. With that said, I've had some ups and downs.

03/21/2007, 09:38 PM	#12
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	No, it doesn't at all and I think you know I would be biatching about it if it did! The thing is, these are new skimmers and they have gone through and are still undergoing changes. The tweaking/fiddling you see going on in the forums are people dialing in a new skimmer. As above, there is only one adjustment. You set the water level and you're done. I never adjust anything. __________________ - Scott

03/22/2007, 05:20 AM	#13
anydarnthing Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Omaha Posts: 657	My skimmer is from the initial batch and every month or so it just decides to overflow. I think it would be a great external skimmer but I need to tweak it every day to get max efficiency from it. __________________ No good deed goes unpunished... Current Tank Info: 240gal softy Reef, 220gal Reef, 29gal Nano reef, 75gal holding tank, H&S A200 3xF2001 & A250 2x1260, 2x 72" Current Orbit 250W MH actinic T5's. Geo Calcium Rx.

03/22/2007, 05:35 AM	#14
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	Mine is batch 3, the type with the wingnut riser adjustment. As before, I never adjust anything. It has never overflowed. It just sits there and does its thing. __________________ - Scott

03/22/2007, 07:52 AM	#15
dkh0331 Es gibt keinen ersatz Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Close to the edge, down by a river Posts: 3,581	I have the H&S A150-F2001. It was OK until I plumbed it directly to my drain line. Now, you'd have to pry it from my cold dead hands. __________________ Just found out that grandpa has a drug addiction. He is addicted to viagra. No one is taking it harder than grandma.

03/22/2007, 04:47 PM	#17
Zoos Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 1,334	Would the A150-F2001 be too much for my tank? Will the A110 do it? The tank will be light-medium bio load. A lot of people say you can over skim a tank. I am not one of those people, i do however think that maybe it will be overkill in the sense that it may not be skimming more, because there is nothing more to skim. and i can use the smaller model to do the same, did that make sense? If it didn't i will try to explain it again. Felix __________________ "The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education." Current Tank Info: None.

03/22/2007, 04:56 PM	#18
jocoxVT Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 339	I run the A150-2001 on my 100 cube with a roughly 35 gallon capacity sump and 20 gallon frag tank I rarely feed my fish due to traveling so much for work and my skimmer is constantly producing good skimmate week after week with no adjustments needed I literally set it originally and havent really touched it since. I have a heavy coral load SPS dominant as well as I have a fair fish load but like I said my tank goes without feeding the majority of times due to work. I think you will be fine with the A150-2001 that is what I would suggest for your tank size plus this way you have flexibility if you overstock or if you add a frag tank or even upgrade (assuming you dont go upgrading to something ridiculous). HTH __________________ Jonathan Current Tank Info: Elos Mini

03/22/2007, 05:16 PM	#19
McCrary Can't Stop Time Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,079	I run an H&S 200-1260 on my 110 and I don't think its too much, so the A150-2001 would be great for your 90 with 40 gallon sump. __________________ Matt Patience is the best remedy for every trouble. Titus Maccius Plautus (254 BC - 184 BC), Rudens

03/22/2007, 11:30 PM	#20
Zoos Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 1,334	Thanks, just what i was looking for. How do you guys have yours set up, direct feed from the overflow? __________________ "The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education." Current Tank Info: None.

03/22/2007, 11:51 PM	#21
palawan Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fremont,CA Posts: 960	I have the BM200 and I bought it from KM associates. I have the 1st gen model and there are some issues but I think they will be solved soon. I am on of the tweaker do-it-yourself guys and so far I have improved the skimmer to skim between very wet to very dry IMO with some mods that I think ATI is going to issue soon. The owners of the BM250s don't see the issues like owners of the 200s. The main item that affects performance of the 200s is the mesh wheel size. Trying to produce the meshwheels to be the same on each skimmer is difficult and it does determine the air intake which I have seen effects bubble size and skimmate production. I am very happy with this skimmer and once the production models come out with the new mods the demand will increase and so will price IMO.

03/23/2007, 05:16 AM	#23
Khaley Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: CT Posts: 128	I have the BM200 3rd gen on a 120g - I don't tweek. Mainly I don't know enough to fiddle with the equipment. I set the skimmer and left it alone and it has worked great. Pulls a ton of skim out of the tank. Took two weeks to "break in" and has been working great ever since. __________________ "If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking." Current Tank Info: 120g reef, ATI BM200, Vortech pumps, 2x400w 14k EVC MH/2x54wT5's, 150g basement sump

03/23/2007, 06:39 AM	#25
Zoos Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 1,334	dkh0331 - It seems everywhere i read that the direct feed does a lot. I will be trying it that way. Khaley - Do you have any pictures of that BM in action? Thanks guys keep the info coming. we're all learning something. __________________ "The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education." Current Tank Info: None.