Help with first salt water tank

blkdrgn · 03/22/2007, 03:10 PM

We are planning for a salt water aquarium in about 6 months due to construction on our house. We live in Hawaii but it's not easy getting stuff down here especially for a big tank. We plan on getting an acrylic 300g tank. After reading for about a week now I'm starting to get a little overwhelmed with the info. It's also hard not seeing pictures or live setups. So far I came up with this. Also remember that they do not carry a lot of these stuff locally and I have to order it online. I've been reading on Wet Web Media and here. My Conscientious Marine Aquarist and New Marine Aquarium book came in yesterday.

1. 300 gallon acrylic tank - 96" x 24" x 30" tall
2. Oak stand - 96" x 24" x 30" tall
3. Oak Canopy - 96" x 24" x 7" tall
4. 1 AquaC EV-240 Protein Skimmer - 6.75" x 10.75" x 26" tall - Comes with Iwaki MD40RLT pump
5. Refugium/Sump - 55g tank with custom baffles - 48" x 13" x 21" tall
6. Lighting - Two retrofit 4' 2 - 250W 10K MH with 2 - 110W VHO.
7. Iwaki pump - WP-IKMD100RLT. Flow Rate @ 4' head: 2000GPH
8. Tunze Turbelle wave maker. Turbelle Stream TS21 6000. Come with two heads.
9. 4 Stage Captive Purity RO/Di CP1341
10. JBJ A.T.O. JB5111
11. Aqua Medic SP3000 Dosing pump

I'm wondering about the Neptune Systems Aqua Controller 3 Pro. It says it monitors a lot of things but I'm wondering more about the controllers. I was thinking of getting a Turbelle Stream Kit TS21 (6000) wavemaker but The Aqua controller says that it can do it's own wave making. Would I only need to use regular powerheads and take out the Turbelle kit? I was thinking about getting a JBJ A.T.O. Do I still need this unit? If I get a calcium reactor, this system will monitor/control the unit? I'm trying to automate the whole system with one unit as much as possible. I want it to also control the lights, fans, chiller/heater unit, etc.

I also need help designing the sump/refugium baffles. Any suggestions?

I also don't really know the path for the equipment. What hooks up to what in what order? I'm also not sure about the pump size.

Randall_James · 03/22/2007, 03:19 PM

To Reef Central

You have asked for a lot of info on one post...

http://melevsreef.com will help with the sump design...

As a first tank, I think you may be bitting off a lot more than you realize. I might suggest a smaller tank to get the ball rolling. (will also minimize losses in case of drastic failure) A tank about half the size can use almost all the same hardware could turn out easier and cheaper to manage initially.

Not saying it can not be done, just not sure I would start at that level as a first dip into marine tanks.

If you do go this large, at least you have a good resource here at RC...

BurntOutReefer · 03/22/2007, 03:25 PM

I have to disagree with you on this Randall......
It seems that the OP has put some thought into this...(i.e. he is asking Q's before he is buying)....always a good thing in my book.
The set-up looks great....(although IMO..i'd go 400w on the MH's)...and with that much rock, you'll need to figure out your plumbing for dead spots (waterflow)....might want to consider closed loop for behind the rocks.....just my thoughts......

t5Nitro · 03/22/2007, 03:30 PM

If it was possible, people say a 3 foot width is awesome for aquascaping.

blkdrgn · 03/22/2007, 03:37 PM

Thanks. We have 6 months for research and planning. I also have to figure out where I can get a tank this big. Shipping was over 1k. Maybe I can get it custom made locally.

Are you talking about 400w MH each bulb? I have four 250w MH's in this setup. I might and two more retrofit kits for a total of 8 MH bulbs.

For the rock thing I thought it was 1.5-2lbs per gallon of water? I put it right in the middle.

AmosUSA · 03/22/2007, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Randall_James

To Reef Central

You have asked for a lot of info on one post...

http://melevsreef.com will help with the sump design...

As a first tank, I think you may be bitting off a lot more than you realize. I might suggest a smaller tank to get the ball rolling. (will also minimize losses in case of drastic failure) A tank about half the size can use almost all the same hardware could turn out easier and cheaper to manage initially.

Not saying it can not be done, just not sure I would start at that level as a first dip into marine tanks.

If you do go this large, at least you have a good resource here at RC...

I have to agree you can get started with something half the size and it will still be a good size tank and your equipment can always be transfered over to a bigger tank later. 300 gallons, Wow thats a big tank to get started out in the reef world for the first time. If you do go for it more power to you we are here for you ar RC

stuccodude · 03/22/2007, 04:19 PM

so if he is fully established in a 150 in a year or soo its ok to put everything in a bigger set up granted all the equipment is capatible ,without doing the cycle

blkdrgn · 03/22/2007, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AmosUSA
I have to agree you can get started with something half the size and it will still be a good size tank and your equipment can always be transfered over to a bigger tank later. 300 gallons, Wow thats a big tank to get started out in the reef world for the first time. If you do go for it more power to you we are here for you ar RC

We have a 25g and 55g freshwater tank. The 55g has our Arowana and the 25g is for feeder fish. The problem is that they only carry 150g locally but we wanted something bigger if we are going to spend that much money. We don't want to buy a 150 and then have to step up to something bigger and spend the money all over again. we already do pwc everyweek and constantly testing the water so getting into the habit will not be that hard.

Randall_James · 03/22/2007, 04:47 PM

I think most of the equipment you need is in fact scale-able from the 150 to the 300G tank. Your skimmer choice is great for the 150 and I would be inclined to get a second one for the 300.

On costs, very valid thinking but I have found that the cost of the tank itself turns out to be a rather smallish portion of what my reef tanks have cost me over time. A 300G reef tank is easily going to hit 10 grand in most cases and probably more. factor in the actual price of the tank and I think you will see what I mean.

I am sure if you can make a 150g tank go, you can do a 300, it is however IMO a big "starter" tank and there are a few issues with a tank that large that do not factor with the 150 such as humidity control, power consumption (new load center) and goofy things like lighting racks. Big tanks look terrific but the more successful ones I have seen have a lot of automation and dedicated wet rooms for all the other associated gear.

Just playing devils advocate here even though I would rather look at pics of the big tank than the small one

Do post pics as you go at any rate....

blkdrgn · 03/22/2007, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Randall_James
I think most of the equipment you need is in fact scale-able from the 150 to the 300G tank. Your skimmer choice is great for the 150 and I would be inclined to get a second one for the 300.

On costs, very valid thinking but I have found that the cost of the tank itself turns out to be a rather smallish portion of what my reef tanks have cost me over time. A 300G reef tank is easily going to hit 10 grand in most cases and probably more. factor in the actual price of the tank and I think you will see what I mean.

I am sure if you can make a 150g tank go, you can do a 300, it is however IMO a big "starter" tank and there are a few issues with a tank that large that do not factor with the 150 such as humidity control, power consumption (new load center) and goofy things like lighting racks. Big tanks look terrific but the more successful ones I have seen have a lot of automation and dedicated wet rooms for all the other associated gear.

Just playing devils advocate here even though I would rather look at pics of the big tank than the small one

Do post pics as you go at any rate....

I know what you're talking. There are a lot of other factors which were looking at. We are extending the living room another 4ft which would be perfect for the tank. I even accounted for the flooring which I might possibly tell them to fill the underneath portion of the floor with concrete. Just the tank alone with water weighs 2500lbs. I probably will have them run more dedicated circuit outlets and a water line. We will probably put the arowana in it first and keep it freshwater to get the hang of using the equipment. i dont know yet if thats a good idea but ill find out.

AmosUSA · 03/22/2007, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by blkdrgn
We have a 25g and 55g freshwater tank. The 55g has our Arowana and the 25g is for feeder fish. The problem is that they only carry 150g locally but we wanted something bigger if we are going to spend that much money. We don't want to buy a 150 and then have to step up to something bigger and spend the money all over again. we already do pwc everyweek and constantly testing the water so getting into the habit will not be that hard.

After reading all of your posts. I think you should go for it, your taking the time to manage every detail I can see. Plus your equipment has been well thought out and you are so right starting up a 150 gallon tank and then spending more money and time up grading to your original 300 gallon I say go for it . Because I myself i have a 150 gallon reef tank right know, and I know that in time I am going to up grade to a 300 gallon for sure. I think the bigger the tank the more awesome it presents itself as an under water Reef world.

Shagsbeard · 03/22/2007, 06:02 PM

Consider getting a bit more light. You've got a very deep tank, and that's the weak spot in your design.

LNell · 03/22/2007, 06:35 PM

I would make your canopy a lot higher. Those halides are going to roast your tank if you're only working with 7 inches in the canopy, especially if you go with 400's. Also, going with 8 250's instead of 4 would not help that much. Having more bulbs doesn't really help the lights penetrate the water better. What kind of corals do you want to keep? If you want SPS, I would go with the 400-watters, unless you have already bought the 250's. I recommend getting lumenarc reflectors, also. They will help with covering the entire tank with light. Good luck with the setup!

Fraggle Rock2 · 03/22/2007, 11:56 PM

Taller stand? I read a lot of "wish I had done this" posts regarding stand height. Closer to eye level and more room for equipment.

Will the calcium reactor keep up with demands of a 300g system? I suppose it depends on what you keep, but maybe someone with more big tank experience can chime in regarding adding a kalk stirrer or doser or something.

Also, many folks don't think that sand is really alive. I have no experience with it though.

Will it be viewable from three sides? Not sure if it would be better to put the overflows at the back or not. Maybe consider a Calfo style overflow also?

Probably a fan over the sump too, make the chiller's life easier?

Anyway, you should state what sort of livestock you want to keep - makes a big difference.

blkdrgn · 03/26/2007, 07:21 PM

I found a local person for the tank and stand. I changed some equipment again and updated the diagram. Taller stand, bigger skimmer, etc. Do I need a separate pump for the calcium reactor and another for the kalk reactor? What size pump do you recommend? I'd rather stay with Iwaki brand.

Protein Skimmer - Euro-Reef - RC500
Wave Maker - Tunze Turbelle - TZTS21
4 Stage RO/DI - Captive Purity - CP1341
Calcium Reactor - Korallin - C1502
Kalk Reactor - Precision Marine - KR620
Lighting - PFO Lighting - Solaris 20,000k
Pump - Iwaki - MD100RLT Qty 2
Sump/Refugium - 50" x 23" x 20" = 100g
Controller - Neptune Systems - Aqua Controller 3 Pro
Interface - Neptune Systems XT1111

03/22/2007, 03:10 PM	#1
blkdrgn Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 250	Help with first salt water tank We are planning for a salt water aquarium in about 6 months due to construction on our house. We live in Hawaii but it's not easy getting stuff down here especially for a big tank. We plan on getting an acrylic 300g tank. After reading for about a week now I'm starting to get a little overwhelmed with the info. It's also hard not seeing pictures or live setups. So far I came up with this. Also remember that they do not carry a lot of these stuff locally and I have to order it online. I've been reading on Wet Web Media and here. My Conscientious Marine Aquarist and New Marine Aquarium book came in yesterday. 1. 300 gallon acrylic tank - 96" x 24" x 30" tall 2. Oak stand - 96" x 24" x 30" tall 3. Oak Canopy - 96" x 24" x 7" tall 4. 1 AquaC EV-240 Protein Skimmer - 6.75" x 10.75" x 26" tall - Comes with Iwaki MD40RLT pump 5. Refugium/Sump - 55g tank with custom baffles - 48" x 13" x 21" tall 6. Lighting - Two retrofit 4' 2 - 250W 10K MH with 2 - 110W VHO. 7. Iwaki pump - WP-IKMD100RLT. Flow Rate @ 4' head: 2000GPH 8. Tunze Turbelle wave maker. Turbelle Stream TS21 6000. Come with two heads. 9. 4 Stage Captive Purity RO/Di CP1341 10. JBJ A.T.O. JB5111 11. Aqua Medic SP3000 Dosing pump I'm wondering about the Neptune Systems Aqua Controller 3 Pro. It says it monitors a lot of things but I'm wondering more about the controllers. I was thinking of getting a Turbelle Stream Kit TS21 (6000) wavemaker but The Aqua controller says that it can do it's own wave making. Would I only need to use regular powerheads and take out the Turbelle kit? I was thinking about getting a JBJ A.T.O. Do I still need this unit? If I get a calcium reactor, this system will monitor/control the unit? I'm trying to automate the whole system with one unit as much as possible. I want it to also control the lights, fans, chiller/heater unit, etc. I also need help designing the sump/refugium baffles. Any suggestions? I also don't really know the path for the equipment. What hooks up to what in what order? I'm also not sure about the pump size.

03/22/2007, 03:19 PM	#2
Randall_James Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,727	*To Reef Central* You have asked for a lot of info on one post... http://melevsreef.com will help with the sump design... As a first tank, I think you may be bitting off a lot more than you realize. I might suggest a smaller tank to get the ball rolling. (will also minimize losses in case of drastic failure) A tank about half the size can use almost all the same hardware could turn out easier and cheaper to manage initially. Not saying it can not be done, just not sure I would start at that level as a first dip into marine tanks. If you do go this large, at least you have a good resource here at RC... __________________ "It's a dog eat dog world and I feel like I am wearing milkbone underwear"

03/22/2007, 03:30 PM	#4
t5Nitro Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 4,384	If it was possible, people say a 3 foot width is awesome for aquascaping. __________________ ATI T5 club Current Tank Info: Left the hobby, looking to re-enter in the future

03/22/2007, 04:19 PM	#7
stuccodude Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: sanger Posts: 1,040	so if he is fully established in a 150 in a year or soo its ok to put everything in a bigger set up granted all the equipment is capatible ,without doing the cycle __________________ fear the wrath of patrick willis!!! no offense is safe. Current Tank Info: 240 all the goodies,hydra 26 led lights, chiller etc

03/22/2007, 04:47 PM	#9
Randall_James Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,727	I think most of the equipment you need is in fact scale-able from the 150 to the 300G tank. Your skimmer choice is great for the 150 and I would be inclined to get a second one for the 300. On costs, very valid thinking but I have found that the cost of the tank itself turns out to be a rather smallish portion of what my reef tanks have cost me over time. A 300G reef tank is easily going to hit 10 grand in most cases and probably more. factor in the actual price of the tank and I think you will see what I mean. I am sure if you can make a 150g tank go, you can do a 300, it is however IMO a big "starter" tank and there are a few issues with a tank that large that do not factor with the 150 such as humidity control, power consumption (new load center) and goofy things like lighting racks. Big tanks look terrific but the more successful ones I have seen have a lot of automation and dedicated wet rooms for all the other associated gear. Just playing devils advocate here even though I would rather look at pics of the big tank than the small one Do post pics as you go at any rate.... __________________ "It's a dog eat dog world and I feel like I am wearing milkbone underwear"

03/22/2007, 03:25 PM	#3
BurntOutReefer Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Granada Hills Posts: 4,376	I have to disagree with you on this Randall...... It seems that the OP has put some thought into this...(i.e. he is asking Q's before he is buying)....always a good thing in my book. The set-up looks great....(although IMO..i'd go 400w on the MH's)...and with that much rock, you'll need to figure out your plumbing for dead spots (waterflow)....might want to consider closed loop for behind the rocks.....just my thoughts......

03/22/2007, 03:37 PM	#5
blkdrgn Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 250	Thanks. We have 6 months for research and planning. I also have to figure out where I can get a tank this big. Shipping was over 1k. Maybe I can get it custom made locally. Are you talking about 400w MH each bulb? I have four 250w MH's in this setup. I might and two more retrofit kits for a total of 8 MH bulbs. For the rock thing I thought it was 1.5-2lbs per gallon of water? I put it right in the middle.

03/22/2007, 06:02 PM	#12
Shagsbeard Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Morro Bay, CA Posts: 2,143	Consider getting a bit more light. You've got a very deep tank, and that's the weak spot in your design.

03/22/2007, 06:35 PM	#13
LNell Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: GA Posts: 211	I would make your canopy a lot higher. Those halides are going to roast your tank if you're only working with 7 inches in the canopy, especially if you go with 400's. Also, going with 8 250's instead of 4 would not help that much. Having more bulbs doesn't really help the lights penetrate the water better. What kind of corals do you want to keep? If you want SPS, I would go with the 400-watters, unless you have already bought the 250's. I recommend getting lumenarc reflectors, also. They will help with covering the entire tank with light. Good luck with the setup!

03/22/2007, 11:56 PM	#14
Fraggle Rock2 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 260	Taller stand? I read a lot of "wish I had done this" posts regarding stand height. Closer to eye level and more room for equipment. Will the calcium reactor keep up with demands of a 300g system? I suppose it depends on what you keep, but maybe someone with more big tank experience can chime in regarding adding a kalk stirrer or doser or something. Also, many folks don't think that sand is really alive. I have no experience with it though. Will it be viewable from three sides? Not sure if it would be better to put the overflows at the back or not. Maybe consider a Calfo style overflow also? Probably a fan over the sump too, make the chiller's life easier? Anyway, you should state what sort of livestock you want to keep - makes a big difference.

03/26/2007, 07:21 PM	#15
blkdrgn Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 250	I found a local person for the tank and stand. I changed some equipment again and updated the diagram. Taller stand, bigger skimmer, etc. Do I need a separate pump for the calcium reactor and another for the kalk reactor? What size pump do you recommend? I'd rather stay with Iwaki brand. Protein Skimmer - Euro-Reef - RC500 Wave Maker - Tunze Turbelle - TZTS21 4 Stage RO/DI - Captive Purity - CP1341 Calcium Reactor - Korallin - C1502 Kalk Reactor - Precision Marine - KR620 Lighting - PFO Lighting - Solaris 20,000k Pump - Iwaki - MD100RLT Qty 2 Sump/Refugium - 50" x 23" x 20" = 100g Controller - Neptune Systems - Aqua Controller 3 Pro Interface - Neptune Systems XT1111