Clam experts, pm experts, and all others please comment

Tigger240 · 03/25/2007, 12:50 AM

I started this thread, please chime in. i would like to hear all input / ideas / critisims. you can conviently scroll to the skip to here in parathensis. many thanks for replys and inputs!

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...readid=1080794

jmaneyapanda · 03/25/2007, 07:25 AM

i wouldnt try hyposalinity long term on any inverts really. they are far less forgiving of the effects (long term) than fish.

something to thing about- pathogens (whether it is pm, ick, or whatever) may be host specific, but usually the virulent aspects which cause them to spread are water-borne. that means POTENTIALLY- a drop or so of water from an outside source can carry the posssibility of the pathogen. a long shot perhaps, but a consideration nonetheless.

a4twenty · 03/25/2007, 08:20 AM

i agree, i don't think any inverts would survive for long in hypo. i also don't think it would be wise to do two FWD without a clear reason. i prefer to QT using tank water and use FWD for emergency treatments.

RedEyeElf · 03/25/2007, 10:01 AM

Agreed, FW dip is one of the last resorts on inverts

Lucky Strike · 03/25/2007, 11:25 AM

edited

Tigger240 · 03/25/2007, 11:28 AM

i agree with the hypo on inverts, it was late when i posted and wasnt thinking clearly. something jay- said - about pathogens being host specific, is why i posted. if your display is new and or virgin to clams, then the pathogen (pm) could not be present in the display, rather something that may be in small numbers on the clam that you have bought. now lets say for arguements sake that exposing this pathogen to fresh water kills it (as people use this for treatment of a pm clam). so if your qt tank is sterile, and you fw dip the clam, theoriticly the pathogen will not be present in the qt tank at all. and jay also brought up a possiblity of a drop of water containing such a pathogen. that was why (maybe) a fw dip before entry into the display would prevent it from being transfered over to your main tank. this is all just what ifs and possiblities, but if i knew my tank would be pm free because of this then - it just maybe worth the trouble.

Tigger240 · 03/25/2007, 11:31 AM

and honestly if a clam can survive a fw dip while it is most injured and such then a fw dip while healthy should be a bit easier on the clam. but it is most stressful, im certian of that.

jmaneyapanda · 03/25/2007, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tigger240
if your display is new and or virgin to clams, then the pathogen (pm) could not be present in the display.

This is a dangerous way to think. How do clams catch Pm from other clams? Through a water borne vector. How long can this vector last without a host? We currently have no idea. So, is it possible that this "wet" vector can come in on a coral, liverock, macroalgae, fish, etc? Absolutely. PM can get into your tank, even if it has never seen a clam. Do I think this is a likely scenraio? Probably not, but it is possible.

Tigger240 · 03/25/2007, 09:56 PM

i agree with all your statements, and i do see your point. this whole post / idea was centered around that maybe the protozoan can only survive with an approiate clam host, like ick. all incoming items would be approiatly qt'd, because anything wet needs to be qt'd. which includes all formentioned items. if the items were qt'd with out the approiate host, or clam in site, then it could be possible to never have pm in a tank - as long as three things

1) the protoazoan needs the clam host to complete its life cycle
2) the approiate time span for all incoming items that are in qt are never qt'd with a clam as to effectivly kill the protozoan off.
3) fw dipping a new clam kills off 100% of the protozan that causes pm

but the above three questions i dont have the anwser too. they are if's and big ifs. i know that. i was curious if anyone could shed light on the subject.

however i have continued to use ifs, could be's, maybe, assuming, through out my post. i never said anything was stone. its an idea, a possiblity, not a way that i think. i was simply stating that IF a tank has never seen a clam, and IF the protozoan needs a clam host to live, then the protozoan will die after the approiate time span or qt time with no clam host present.

Thus making your tank free of pm

03/25/2007, 12:50 AM	#1
Tigger240 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 642	Clam experts, pm experts, and all others please comment I started this thread, please chime in. i would like to hear all input / ideas / critisims. you can conviently scroll to the skip to here in parathensis. many thanks for replys and inputs! http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...readid=1080794

03/25/2007, 07:25 AM	#2
jmaneyapanda Commencing hatred Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 3,784	i wouldnt try hyposalinity long term on any inverts really. they are far less forgiving of the effects (long term) than fish. something to thing about- pathogens (whether it is pm, ick, or whatever) may be host specific, but usually the virulent aspects which cause them to spread are water-borne. that means POTENTIALLY- a drop or so of water from an outside source can carry the posssibility of the pathogen. a long shot perhaps, but a consideration nonetheless.

03/25/2007, 08:20 AM	#3
a4twenty Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,603	i agree, i don't think any inverts would survive for long in hypo. i also don't think it would be wise to do two FWD without a clear reason. i prefer to QT using tank water and use FWD for emergency treatments.

03/25/2007, 10:01 AM	#4
RedEyeElf Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 462	Agreed, FW dip is one of the last resorts on inverts

03/25/2007, 11:25 AM	#5
Lucky Strike Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 112	edited

03/25/2007, 11:28 AM	#6
Tigger240 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 642	i agree with the hypo on inverts, it was late when i posted and wasnt thinking clearly. something jay- said - about pathogens being host specific, is why i posted. if your display is new and or virgin to clams, then the pathogen (pm) could not be present in the display, rather something that may be in small numbers on the clam that you have bought. now lets say for arguements sake that exposing this pathogen to fresh water kills it (as people use this for treatment of a pm clam). so if your qt tank is sterile, and you fw dip the clam, theoriticly the pathogen will not be present in the qt tank at all. and jay also brought up a possiblity of a drop of water containing such a pathogen. that was why (maybe) a fw dip before entry into the display would prevent it from being transfered over to your main tank. this is all just what ifs and possiblities, but if i knew my tank would be pm free because of this then - it just maybe worth the trouble.

03/25/2007, 11:31 AM	#7
Tigger240 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 642	and honestly if a clam can survive a fw dip while it is most injured and such then a fw dip while healthy should be a bit easier on the clam. but it is most stressful, im certian of that.

03/25/2007, 09:56 PM	#9
Tigger240 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 642	i agree with all your statements, and i do see your point. this whole post / idea was centered around that maybe the protozoan can only survive with an approiate clam host, like ick. all incoming items would be approiatly qt'd, because anything wet needs to be qt'd. which includes all formentioned items. if the items were qt'd with out the approiate host, or clam in site, then it could be possible to never have pm in a tank - as long as three things 1) the protoazoan needs the clam host to complete its life cycle 2) the approiate time span for all incoming items that are in qt are never qt'd with a clam as to effectivly kill the protozoan off. 3) fw dipping a new clam kills off 100% of the protozan that causes pm but the above three questions i dont have the anwser too. they are if's and big ifs. i know that. i was curious if anyone could shed light on the subject. however i have continued to use ifs, could be's, maybe, assuming, through out my post. i never said anything was stone. its an idea, a possiblity, not a way that i think. i was simply stating that IF a tank has never seen a clam, and IF the protozoan needs a clam host to live, then the protozoan will die after the approiate time span or qt time with no clam host present. Thus making your tank free of pm