What is the lowest recomended SG for a FOWLR?

virginiadiver69 · 03/26/2007, 04:32 PM

I will be building a mixed reef eventually but see no need to keep the SG at 1.026 unless it is necessary for fish, rock and a small clean up crew. What is the minimum?

Scuba_Steve · 03/26/2007, 04:41 PM

1.023 is common, I wouldnt go lower than that. Some lfs keep it around 1.016, but I dont think that would be healthy in the long run. They only keep livestock for a few weeks at a time. Just read, mixed reef, 1.016 would definately not be good. I wouldnt go below 1.023.

virginiadiver69 · 03/26/2007, 04:41 PM

waterkeeper, are you out there?

Scuba_Steve · 03/26/2007, 04:42 PM

Waterkeeper is slow, dont rush him. He might break a hip, or a finger or something.....

WaterKeeper · 03/26/2007, 04:46 PM

Well, back in the good old days, when I still had hair and teeth

, 1.019 was recommended as it was supposed to help fend off ich and velvet. It doesn't, so today we recommend NSW level of 1.025-1.026

vessxpress1 · 03/26/2007, 04:54 PM

You didn't like the first answer?

I was going to say 1.021. I personally wouldn't go any lower than that long term, but that's just my opinion. How big of a tank are you going to be running? .021 to .026 isn't that much salt savings in the long run, depending on how big you're planning on going. Besides that, if whatever instrument you're using reads slightly higher, your SG will be even lower than that.

I don't know the technicalities of it but I've read that saltwater fish need the salt for respiration. Higher SG causes them to breathe faster and lower causes them to breathe slower. Maybe someone else can elaborate on that.

If you ever try to beat ich using hyposalinity, you'll want to have a higher SG so you have a longer range to drop it. You'll have a better chance at killing all of the ich.

WaterKeeper · 03/26/2007, 04:57 PM

I also should point out that the 1.019 salinity was mainly used before LR and LS came into vogue. I'm not sure myself on how it does over the long term at reduced salinity.

virginiadiver69 · 03/26/2007, 04:57 PM

But will 1.019 hurt? This is why I ask. It comes down to laziness really. I am QT'ing two false percs at 1.019(on the recommendation of my lfs). If I keep my display(FOWLR for now) at 1.019 I can just do water changes from there instead of toting from the garage. Or...could I just keep EVERYTHING at 1.025-1.026 and be done with it?

Scuba_Steve · 03/26/2007, 05:02 PM

Saltwater limits the amount of water a cell can absorb. This is why when you go to the hospital for dehydration they give you saline instead of normal water pumped directly into your vein. Pure water would eventually make your cells overfill and explode. So a saltwater fish is in a constant struggle to get water into their bodies. Problem is if the salinity is to low they will get to much. On the other hand a freshwater fish is the exact opposite. It is in a constant struggle to get water out.

virginiadiver69 · 03/26/2007, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vessxpress1
You didn't like the first answer?

I posted the same time that scubasteve was posting. I didn't mean it to appear that way. Besides, can anyone blame me for wanting validation from waterkeeper? I didn't think so

Scuba_Steve · 03/26/2007, 05:04 PM

They recommend 1.019 for hyposalinity quar. This kills off any ick before you introduce fish into the display. It is a good practice, but I thought it was suppost to be at 1.016. Research hyposalinity for more info.

WaterKeeper · 03/26/2007, 05:05 PM

You know many LFS still go with the low salinity theory. I think it was Herbert Axelrod that proposed it. Since many have a display tank with LR and corals that they run long term it might be a good question to ask on how long the display was running, at what salinity and is that the original rock? If it looks good and is over say 3 years old then it might be just fine to run it that way.

Just a thought on my part.

virginiadiver69 · 03/26/2007, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by virginiadiver69
Or...could I just keep EVERYTHING at 1.025-1.026 and be done with it?

WaterKeeper · 03/26/2007, 05:06 PM

Oh, and the level for hypo to be effective is 1.009 Steve.

Scuba_Steve · 03/26/2007, 05:08 PM

Hey the whole hypo thing is new to me

Ill be doing it for everything on my upcoming tank.

WaterKeeper · 03/26/2007, 05:29 PM

I'm not an advocate of using hypo routinely on newly arrived fish as a prophylaxis. They are stressed upon arrival so why heighten the stress? I only medicate or use things like hypo when a fish is actually sick.

virginiadiver69 · 03/26/2007, 05:46 PM

So it sounds like keeping BOTH qt and display at 1.025 will be okay then?

WaterKeeper · 03/26/2007, 05:57 PM

That gets my vote.

However, it may get the "Save the Salt Mines" people fired up.

virginiadiver69 · 03/26/2007, 06:40 PM

Thanks all for the advice! I'll up the SG in my QT over the next few days.

03/26/2007, 04:32 PM	#1
virginiadiver69 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Va. Posts: 4,400	What is the lowest recomended SG for a FOWLR? I will be building a mixed reef eventually but see no need to keep the SG at 1.026 unless it is necessary for fish, rock and a small clean up crew. What is the minimum? __________________ Semi-aggressive mixed reef w/ shallow sand bed 96x30x27 310gal custom acrylic w/ ext. "fail safe" overflow 125gal sump/cryptic fuge w/ 6" DSB 3 400w Plus Rite 20k MH in Lumembrights 2 250w Plus Rite 20k MH in spider reflectors VHO actinic supplementation 2 Tunze wave boxes 2 Tunze 6060 in Tunze Rocks 2 Tunze 6125 Reeflo 250 skimmer Hammerhead return on OM 4 way Aqua controller lll Leviton power panel Deltec Eco-Cooler Randy's Two part 6.5 kw generator

03/26/2007, 04:41 PM	#2
Scuba_Steve Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Pooler, Ga Posts: 1,342	1.023 is common, I wouldnt go lower than that. Some lfs keep it around 1.016, but I dont think that would be healthy in the long run. They only keep livestock for a few weeks at a time. Just read, mixed reef, 1.016 would definately not be good. I wouldnt go below 1.023. __________________ 40g DIY AIO. DT Size is 27"x18"x17" SCA-301 skimmer, DIY ATS 4"x4" 1 cube setup, Ocean Revive 120w LED, Quiet One 3000, Jager 150w TBS Rock

03/26/2007, 04:41 PM	#3
virginiadiver69 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Va. Posts: 4,400	waterkeeper, are you out there? __________________ Semi-aggressive mixed reef w/ shallow sand bed 96x30x27 310gal custom acrylic w/ ext. "fail safe" overflow 125gal sump/cryptic fuge w/ 6" DSB 3 400w Plus Rite 20k MH in Lumembrights 2 250w Plus Rite 20k MH in spider reflectors VHO actinic supplementation 2 Tunze wave boxes 2 Tunze 6060 in Tunze Rocks 2 Tunze 6125 Reeflo 250 skimmer Hammerhead return on OM 4 way Aqua controller lll Leviton power panel Deltec Eco-Cooler Randy's Two part 6.5 kw generator

03/26/2007, 04:42 PM	#4
Scuba_Steve Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Pooler, Ga Posts: 1,342	Waterkeeper is slow, dont rush him. He might break a hip, or a finger or something..... __________________ 40g DIY AIO. DT Size is 27"x18"x17" SCA-301 skimmer, DIY ATS 4"x4" 1 cube setup, Ocean Revive 120w LED, Quiet One 3000, Jager 150w TBS Rock

03/26/2007, 04:46 PM	#5
WaterKeeper Bogus Information Expert Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 16,147	Well, back in the good old days, when I still had hair and teeth , 1.019 was recommended as it was supposed to help fend off ich and velvet. It doesn't, so today we recommend NSW level of 1.025-1.026 __________________ "Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation" Tom Current Tank Info: 130 Now out of service and a 29

03/26/2007, 04:54 PM	#6
vessxpress1 Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: NW IL Posts: 1,603	You didn't like the first answer? I was going to say 1.021. I personally wouldn't go any lower than that long term, but that's just my opinion. How big of a tank are you going to be running? .021 to .026 isn't that much salt savings in the long run, depending on how big you're planning on going. Besides that, if whatever instrument you're using reads slightly higher, your SG will be even lower than that. I don't know the technicalities of it but I've read that saltwater fish need the salt for respiration. Higher SG causes them to breathe faster and lower causes them to breathe slower. Maybe someone else can elaborate on that. If you ever try to beat ich using hyposalinity, you'll want to have a higher SG so you have a longer range to drop it. You'll have a better chance at killing all of the ich.

03/26/2007, 04:57 PM	#7
WaterKeeper Bogus Information Expert Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 16,147	I also should point out that the 1.019 salinity was mainly used before LR and LS came into vogue. I'm not sure myself on how it does over the long term at reduced salinity. __________________ "Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation" Tom Current Tank Info: 130 Now out of service and a 29

03/26/2007, 05:02 PM	#9
Scuba_Steve Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Pooler, Ga Posts: 1,342	Saltwater limits the amount of water a cell can absorb. This is why when you go to the hospital for dehydration they give you saline instead of normal water pumped directly into your vein. Pure water would eventually make your cells overfill and explode. So a saltwater fish is in a constant struggle to get water into their bodies. Problem is if the salinity is to low they will get to much. On the other hand a freshwater fish is the exact opposite. It is in a constant struggle to get water out. __________________ 40g DIY AIO. DT Size is 27"x18"x17" SCA-301 skimmer, DIY ATS 4"x4" 1 cube setup, Ocean Revive 120w LED, Quiet One 3000, Jager 150w TBS Rock

03/26/2007, 05:04 PM	#11
Scuba_Steve Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Pooler, Ga Posts: 1,342	They recommend 1.019 for hyposalinity quar. This kills off any ick before you introduce fish into the display. It is a good practice, but I thought it was suppost to be at 1.016. Research hyposalinity for more info. __________________ 40g DIY AIO. DT Size is 27"x18"x17" SCA-301 skimmer, DIY ATS 4"x4" 1 cube setup, Ocean Revive 120w LED, Quiet One 3000, Jager 150w TBS Rock

03/26/2007, 05:05 PM	#12
WaterKeeper Bogus Information Expert Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 16,147	You know many LFS still go with the low salinity theory. I think it was Herbert Axelrod that proposed it. Since many have a display tank with LR and corals that they run long term it might be a good question to ask on how long the display was running, at what salinity and is that the original rock? If it looks good and is over say 3 years old then it might be just fine to run it that way. Just a thought on my part. __________________ "Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation" Tom Current Tank Info: 130 Now out of service and a 29

03/26/2007, 05:06 PM	#14
WaterKeeper Bogus Information Expert Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 16,147	Oh, and the level for hypo to be effective is 1.009 Steve. __________________ "Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation" Tom Current Tank Info: 130 Now out of service and a 29

03/26/2007, 05:08 PM	#15
Scuba_Steve Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Pooler, Ga Posts: 1,342	Hey the whole hypo thing is new to me Ill be doing it for everything on my upcoming tank. __________________ 40g DIY AIO. DT Size is 27"x18"x17" SCA-301 skimmer, DIY ATS 4"x4" 1 cube setup, Ocean Revive 120w LED, Quiet One 3000, Jager 150w TBS Rock

03/26/2007, 05:29 PM	#16
WaterKeeper Bogus Information Expert Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 16,147	I'm not an advocate of using hypo routinely on newly arrived fish as a prophylaxis. They are stressed upon arrival so why heighten the stress? I only medicate or use things like hypo when a fish is actually sick. __________________ "Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation" Tom Current Tank Info: 130 Now out of service and a 29

03/26/2007, 05:46 PM	#17
virginiadiver69 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Va. Posts: 4,400	So it sounds like keeping BOTH qt and display at 1.025 will be okay then? __________________ Semi-aggressive mixed reef w/ shallow sand bed 96x30x27 310gal custom acrylic w/ ext. "fail safe" overflow 125gal sump/cryptic fuge w/ 6" DSB 3 400w Plus Rite 20k MH in Lumembrights 2 250w Plus Rite 20k MH in spider reflectors VHO actinic supplementation 2 Tunze wave boxes 2 Tunze 6060 in Tunze Rocks 2 Tunze 6125 Reeflo 250 skimmer Hammerhead return on OM 4 way Aqua controller lll Leviton power panel Deltec Eco-Cooler Randy's Two part 6.5 kw generator

03/26/2007, 05:57 PM	#18
WaterKeeper Bogus Information Expert Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 16,147	That gets my vote. However, it may get the "Save the Salt Mines" people fired up. __________________ "Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation" Tom Current Tank Info: 130 Now out of service and a 29

03/26/2007, 06:40 PM	#19
virginiadiver69 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Va. Posts: 4,400	Thanks all for the advice! I'll up the SG in my QT over the next few days. __________________ Semi-aggressive mixed reef w/ shallow sand bed 96x30x27 310gal custom acrylic w/ ext. "fail safe" overflow 125gal sump/cryptic fuge w/ 6" DSB 3 400w Plus Rite 20k MH in Lumembrights 2 250w Plus Rite 20k MH in spider reflectors VHO actinic supplementation 2 Tunze wave boxes 2 Tunze 6060 in Tunze Rocks 2 Tunze 6125 Reeflo 250 skimmer Hammerhead return on OM 4 way Aqua controller lll Leviton power panel Deltec Eco-Cooler Randy's Two part 6.5 kw generator