BioBalls

Chago09 · 04/02/2007, 07:27 AM

OK soooo many people keep telling me to remove bioballs from my plans but I want to make sure it's a good idea for me to do that. I am going to be running 150 FOWLR and right now I have 80 lbs of live rock and will be adding more as time goes on. Although for the time being my tank only has 80lbs of live rock. If I have minimal stocking like lest say a tang, butterfly, sand sifting goby and some crabs. Will the 80lbs be able to handle the load??? I am running two Aqua Clear 110's HOB with some biomax and I will rinse it biweekly which will give me added bio filtration.

Can I really go without having bioballs in my tank for the time being???? wouldn't it be better if I removed it as I added live rock????

sir_dudeguy · 04/02/2007, 08:11 AM

yes, for the time being if you keep your bioload somewhat light 80 lbs of rock will be plenty to filter the tank alone. Eventually add it up to 150 tho. Actually you could also just add a bunch of base rock....have you ever considered that? Base rock will then turn live and it will be a lot cheaper if cost is an issue.

Also, so you know, biomax and any other media that is meant to be "bio-filtration" will do the same as bioballs...create high nitrates. These media's cant produce the bacteria that breaks down nitrate, which live rock (and sand) CAN do. Personally, i'd remove the media in those filters as well.

However....is this thing ever going to be a reef tank or is there a possibility that it might be? (Its usually good to assume it will be, just in case...). But if not, then there's not a whole lot of point in removing the bioballs, because fish arent affected by nitrates like corals and stuff are. But nitrates do still cause algae, so thats another thing to consider.

Icefire · 04/02/2007, 08:35 AM

In FOWLR keep the biomax/balls.

Anyway, bio balls or not, you have the same amount of waste to process, if they aren't trapped in the filter media, they are on the bottom or live rock, you still get nitrate in the end.

You can't create more nitrate if you have bioballs, the detritus are the same but you need a way to export them like DSB, macro algae and maybe Live Rock (I don't agree 100% but it's me).

mg426 · 04/02/2007, 10:35 AM

My system always had nitrates around 10 to 20 PPM. I removed the bioballs slowly about 20%/wk. I also added a refugium. I cant say for sure what got rid of the nitrates but they are 0 now and have been that way for 1.5 yrs.

buoymarker28 · 04/02/2007, 10:43 AM

FWIW i ran a reef with bioballs until a year ago... i finally broke down and replace the wet dry with the sump w/macro algea..not even a fuge just a sump with loads of macro and I have to say that i'm so much better off. I think you'll be fine either way but if you have a choice i wouldn't go bio balls for anything other than catching bubbles...

Chago09 · 04/02/2007, 11:21 AM

I see what your all saying but I don't you see what I am saying. I only have 80lbs of live rock right now. I wil be getting another 50 lbs of base rock soon. Although that needs a lot of time to seed. I need the bioballs for the time being, and once I have the one pound per gallon I can remove the balls slowly. You can't tell me that bioballs are gonna be a nitrate problem in the first 6 months of set up. Unless your throwing in actual pieces of steak and porkchops there is no way you can possibly have that much debris that fast.

buoymarker28 · 04/02/2007, 11:24 AM

nope....it won't be. you are 100% correct. You should be good for over a year IMO. I didn't start to really have problems (and i can't even prove that it was bio balls) until after the second year.

sir_dudeguy · 04/02/2007, 11:42 PM

Quote:

they are on the bottom or live rock, you still get nitrate in the end.

no, live rock can have the bacteria that breaks nitrate into nitrogen gas (i think its nitrogen...i always screw up the names of that sort of thing lol) but bioballs cant. So there is a difference. And yes, the bioballs/media can produce nitrate for that reason.

mcwl · 04/03/2007, 10:40 PM

when I had fish only, I used bio balls. took them out for the reef.

drummereef · 04/03/2007, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sir_dudeguy
no, live rock can have the bacteria that breaks nitrate into nitrogen gas (i think its nitrogen...i always screw up the names of that sort of thing lol) but bioballs cant. So there is a difference. And yes, the bioballs/media can produce nitrate for that reason.

My sentiments exactly. Save yourself some headaches and get setup right the first time. Believe me, I've been there.

sir_dudeguy · 04/03/2007, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Save yourself some headaches and get setup right the first time. Believe me, I've been there.

me too

ToniYo · 04/04/2007, 01:32 PM

Me three! I started with bio balls but swithcched to live rock in the filter. My corals are much happier!

rustybucket145 · 04/04/2007, 01:41 PM

Your tank will be fine for now with only 80lbs of rock. The 1lb/gallon is a 'recommendation' more than a rule. I don't even have close to 1lb/gallon and my freakin tank looks great .... has for years. I too (along with many others) went through the bioball nightmare... algae... dying stock, and a generally unhealthy tank. Switched to fuge/sump only setup and it was almost an overnight (well about a couple of weeks) difference.

Like others have said. Start it right. It will save you $$, time and $$$$

04/02/2007, 07:27 AM	#1
Chago09 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Georgetown Posts: 1,132	BioBalls OK soooo many people keep telling me to remove bioballs from my plans but I want to make sure it's a good idea for me to do that. I am going to be running 150 FOWLR and right now I have 80 lbs of live rock and will be adding more as time goes on. Although for the time being my tank only has 80lbs of live rock. If I have minimal stocking like lest say a tang, butterfly, sand sifting goby and some crabs. Will the 80lbs be able to handle the load??? I am running two Aqua Clear 110's HOB with some biomax and I will rinse it biweekly which will give me added bio filtration. Can I really go without having bioballs in my tank for the time being???? wouldn't it be better if I removed it as I added live rock???? __________________ Currently no tank!

04/02/2007, 08:11 AM	#2
sir_dudeguy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 10,841	yes, for the time being if you keep your bioload somewhat light 80 lbs of rock will be plenty to filter the tank alone. Eventually add it up to 150 tho. Actually you could also just add a bunch of base rock....have you ever considered that? Base rock will then turn live and it will be a lot cheaper if cost is an issue. Also, so you know, biomax and any other media that is meant to be "bio-filtration" will do the same as bioballs...create high nitrates. These media's cant produce the bacteria that breaks down nitrate, which live rock (and sand) CAN do. Personally, i'd remove the media in those filters as well. However....is this thing ever going to be a reef tank or is there a possibility that it might be? (Its usually good to assume it will be, just in case...). But if not, then there's not a whole lot of point in removing the bioballs, because fish arent affected by nitrates like corals and stuff are. But nitrates do still cause algae, so thats another thing to consider. __________________ TAKE...LUCK!!!

04/02/2007, 08:35 AM	#3
Icefire Seasoned reefer Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: In Quebec, Canada Posts: 3,653	In FOWLR keep the biomax/balls. Anyway, bio balls or not, you have the same amount of waste to process, if they aren't trapped in the filter media, they are on the bottom or live rock, you still get nitrate in the end. You can't create more nitrate if you have bioballs, the detritus are the same but you need a way to export them like DSB, macro algae and maybe Live Rock (I don't agree 100% but it's me). __________________ Temp 80F, PH 8.5-8.0, Alk 6.8-7.2, Ca 430, Mg 1700, NO3 0-0.25, PO4 0.04, 34.4 PPT Lights @ 100% all others, 35% White Current Tank Info: 60g Cube, 120lbs live rocks, Hydra52 2x120W, 2 MP40+ 1 MP10 @ 70%, Phosban 550 GFO+Carbon, 200W Heater, SWC Skimmer, Kalk ATO, 150 gpd RODI

04/02/2007, 10:35 AM	#4
mg426 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: maryland Posts: 6,923	My system always had nitrates around 10 to 20 PPM. I removed the bioballs slowly about 20%/wk. I also added a refugium. I cant say for sure what got rid of the nitrates but they are 0 now and have been that way for 1.5 yrs. __________________ I found a way to make a small fortune running a reef tank. Start with a large fortune. Unofficial President of the SEACLONE haters club Current Tank Info: 125 mixed reef 110 lbs LR, 1x250watt XM 20K MH 2x175watt XM 20K MH on Magetics 2X96 watt actinic PC, 220 watt VHO actinic, 30 gallon refugium, closed loop system powered by Sequence Dart MSX 200 skimmer 38 gallon sump, Oceansmotions squirt

04/02/2007, 10:43 AM	#5
buoymarker28 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Dallas Posts: 150	FWIW i ran a reef with bioballs until a year ago... i finally broke down and replace the wet dry with the sump w/macro algea..not even a fuge just a sump with loads of macro and I have to say that i'm so much better off. I think you'll be fine either way but if you have a choice i wouldn't go bio balls for anything other than catching bubbles... __________________ A rolling stone gathers no moss Current Tank Info: 125 reef

04/02/2007, 11:21 AM	#6
Chago09 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Georgetown Posts: 1,132	I see what your all saying but I don't you see what I am saying. I only have 80lbs of live rock right now. I wil be getting another 50 lbs of base rock soon. Although that needs a lot of time to seed. I need the bioballs for the time being, and once I have the one pound per gallon I can remove the balls slowly. You can't tell me that bioballs are gonna be a nitrate problem in the first 6 months of set up. Unless your throwing in actual pieces of steak and porkchops there is no way you can possibly have that much debris that fast. __________________ Currently no tank!

04/02/2007, 11:24 AM	#7
buoymarker28 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Dallas Posts: 150	nope....it won't be. you are 100% correct. You should be good for over a year IMO. I didn't start to really have problems (and i can't even prove that it was bio balls) until after the second year. __________________ A rolling stone gathers no moss Current Tank Info: 125 reef

04/03/2007, 10:40 PM	#9
mcwl Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 86	when I had fish only, I used bio balls. took them out for the reef.

04/04/2007, 01:32 PM	#12
ToniYo Premium Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Tarpon Springs, FL Posts: 214	Me three! I started with bio balls but swithcched to live rock in the filter. My corals are much happier!

04/04/2007, 01:41 PM	#13
rustybucket145 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: valdosta, ga Posts: 3,707	Your tank will be fine for now with only 80lbs of rock. The 1lb/gallon is a 'recommendation' more than a rule. I don't even have close to 1lb/gallon and my freakin tank looks great .... has for years. I too (along with many others) went through the bioball nightmare... algae... dying stock, and a generally unhealthy tank. Switched to fuge/sump only setup and it was almost an overnight (well about a couple of weeks) difference. Like others have said. Start it right. It will save you $$, time and $$$$ __________________ 400gals of various tanks in the same system. Current Tank Info: 2 175w MH, 2 VH0 Actinics, Lots of Live Rock, tons of copepods, a Fat Mandarin Goby, Niger Trigger, Yellow Tang, Falco Hawkfish, Bi-Color Pseudo, numerous soft, SPS and LPS Corals