External return pump without drilling sump...How?

wpbfishguy · 04/18/2007, 07:56 PM

I know that I have heard that folks run plumbing up over the side of their sumps to the input of thier external return pumps. I know that I can do this and then self prime it but what if the power goes out? If anyone does this can you give me some plumbing tips or even a pic of the plumbing up over th sumpt o the input would be great. Thanks

Fishie Nut · 04/18/2007, 08:31 PM

Here's a setup for a pump. You can prime it from the top. If it loses prime it's toast.

[IMG]

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I was going to do this, but the pump didn't fit in the cabinet, so I opted for a Mag.

wpbfishguy · 04/18/2007, 08:53 PM

that it what I am looking for! do you have any problems with the pump losing prime when the power goes out?

Fishie Nut · 04/18/2007, 08:57 PM

Sorry. I never set this up. The pump didn't fit under my tank. I got the pic from another RC reefer and bought all the fittings, etc and have a Panworld pump all ready to go and it didn't fit.
My new motto: PLAN AHEA....D. So I switched to a MAG 18 and so far so good.
I would think it will not lose prime if the power goes so long as the water level in the sum -- the right side of the pic stays above the pipe opening. But you'll have to experiment or get an answer from someone who knows plumbing better than I.

REHEM · 04/18/2007, 09:17 PM

This is the only picture that I have of my non-drilled external pump plumbing. And before any comments are made, let me point out a couple of things here in the pic:

* "Yes", the excessive 90 degree elbows plus all of the ups and downs cut way down on the output flow, but with just a return set-up for a sump in mind and not circulation intentions, this set-up works great. I actually still get quite a bit of circulation from the return pump and it has 3 feet to climb after being T'd off 2 feet from the pump into dual twin outlet nozzles in the main tank above!

* I have a BlueLine 40 HD-X external pump rated at 1270 gph @ 0' head and it's a wonderful pump.

* In the photo, to the left you will notice after the first "U" coming from the sump tank, the PVC is cut and held together with a piece of clear flex hose sleeved over the two ends. Use hose clamps here. If you're tight on cabinet height, you'll need to do this in case you need to remove the pump for cleaning or maintenance. If you don't do this, it would be almost impossible to manipulate the piping out of the sump.

* After the second "U" coming from the sump tank, about midway up the vertical pipe, you'll see a blue line drawn on the pipe. The PVC configuration acts like a P-trap here, so if the power should ever shut off, the water level will always remain right about where that line is drawn balanced on both sides. This keeps the pump constantly primed even should the power be turned off.

* To prime the pump the first time, I just filled the vertical pipe after the first "U" (at the flex hose sleeve) with water. A little bit of air pushes out of the return nozzles at first start ups, but clears in less than 10-15 seconds.

There are probably much better ways to do this, but this works for me. Hope it helps.

Toddrtrex · 04/18/2007, 10:21 PM

Okay, the laptop battery is about to die on me, and for some reason I can't access my photobucket at work, so here are some pics, and I will explain in the AM -- but, two of my three sumps aren't drilled and have an external pump. One has been running for 3 years now, the other two -- excluding me moving the tanks, never lost the prime.

chris wright · 04/19/2007, 03:40 AM

Have you thought about using a submersible pump, especially if its only a return line to the tank.

Check this site out for ideas

melevsreef

Look at how Marc has built his sumps with return pumps, hope this helps

wpbfishguy · 04/19/2007, 07:52 AM

I can't use a submersible sump in this particular application as I need it to feed my chiller prior to the water going to the return lines. There is just way too much head and I don't want to use two pumps to do the job that one external pump could do. I like these plumbing pics..anyone else have some pics. Thanks

04/18/2007, 07:56 PM	#1
wpbfishguy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Florida Posts: 328	External return pump without drilling sump...How? I know that I have heard that folks run plumbing up over the side of their sumps to the input of thier external return pumps. I know that I can do this and then self prime it but what if the power goes out? If anyone does this can you give me some plumbing tips or even a pic of the plumbing up over th sumpt o the input would be great. Thanks

04/18/2007, 08:31 PM	#2
Fishie Nut Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 966	pump setup Here's a setup for a pump. You can prime it from the top. If it loses prime it's toast. [IMG][/IMG] I was going to do this, but the pump didn't fit in the cabinet, so I opted for a Mag. __________________ Fishie (MASLAC member) "It's alaways a sometin'" -- Roseanna Roseannadana Current Tank Info: 225 gal LeeMar Reef; Deltec AP 702, ProFiLux, 90 gal sump/fuge, 3x250 HQI Lumenarcs. 4x96W PC actinics; 375 lbs LR; 3" LS; Hammerhead CL, Korallin c3002, KM500, Auto Water Change/Top Off; Aquatinics 1/3 HP drop in

04/18/2007, 08:57 PM	#4
Fishie Nut Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 966	Sorry. I never set this up. The pump didn't fit under my tank. I got the pic from another RC reefer and bought all the fittings, etc and have a Panworld pump all ready to go and it didn't fit. My new motto: PLAN AHEA....D. So I switched to a MAG 18 and so far so good. I would think it will not lose prime if the power goes so long as the water level in the sum -- the right side of the pic stays above the pipe opening. But you'll have to experiment or get an answer from someone who knows plumbing better than I. __________________ Fishie (MASLAC member) "It's alaways a sometin'" -- Roseanna Roseannadana Current Tank Info: 225 gal LeeMar Reef; Deltec AP 702, ProFiLux, 90 gal sump/fuge, 3x250 HQI Lumenarcs. 4x96W PC actinics; 375 lbs LR; 3" LS; Hammerhead CL, Korallin c3002, KM500, Auto Water Change/Top Off; Aquatinics 1/3 HP drop in

04/18/2007, 09:17 PM	#5
REHEM Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Edmond, OK Posts: 402	This is the only picture that I have of my non-drilled external pump plumbing. And before any comments are made, let me point out a couple of things here in the pic: * "Yes", the excessive 90 degree elbows plus all of the ups and downs cut way down on the output flow, but with just a return set-up for a sump in mind and not circulation intentions, this set-up works great. I actually still get quite a bit of circulation from the return pump and it has 3 feet to climb after being T'd off 2 feet from the pump into dual twin outlet nozzles in the main tank above! * I have a BlueLine 40 HD-X external pump rated at 1270 gph @ 0' head and it's a wonderful pump. * In the photo, to the left you will notice after the first "U" coming from the sump tank, the PVC is cut and held together with a piece of clear flex hose sleeved over the two ends. Use hose clamps here. If you're tight on cabinet height, you'll need to do this in case you need to remove the pump for cleaning or maintenance. If you don't do this, it would be almost impossible to manipulate the piping out of the sump. * After the second "U" coming from the sump tank, about midway up the vertical pipe, you'll see a blue line drawn on the pipe. The PVC configuration acts like a P-trap here, so if the power should ever shut off, the water level will always remain right about where that line is drawn balanced on both sides. This keeps the pump constantly primed even should the power be turned off. * To prime the pump the first time, I just filled the vertical pipe after the first "U" (at the flex hose sleeve) with water. A little bit of air pushes out of the return nozzles at first start ups, but clears in less than 10-15 seconds. There are probably much better ways to do this, but this works for me. Hope it helps. __________________ "DON'T @#!$% WITH THE JESUS!!!" ---The Big Lebowski--- Current Tank Info: 120g AG-RR. 75g DIY sump, BlueLine 40 HD-X sump pump, BlueLine HD70 CL pump, ASM G-Series skimmer, (2) 400 watt MH w/XM 20,000k bulbs, (2) 48 in. Actinic VHOs

04/18/2007, 10:21 PM	#6
Toddrtrex Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Carol Stream, IL Posts: 23,162	Okay, the laptop battery is about to die on me, and for some reason I can't access my photobucket at work, so here are some pics, and I will explain in the AM -- but, two of my three sumps aren't drilled and have an external pump. One has been running for 3 years now, the other two -- excluding me moving the tanks, never lost the prime. __________________ Click my name and then "visit toddrtrex's homepage" for tank pictures Current Tank Info: 210g reef and 65g reef

04/18/2007, 08:53 PM	#3
wpbfishguy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Florida Posts: 328	that it what I am looking for! do you have any problems with the pump losing prime when the power goes out?

04/19/2007, 03:40 AM	#7
chris wright Moved On Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Orange Australia Posts: 835	Have you thought about using a submersible pump, especially if its only a return line to the tank. Check this site out for ideas melevsreef Look at how Marc has built his sumps with return pumps, hope this helps

04/19/2007, 07:52 AM	#8
wpbfishguy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Florida Posts: 328	I can't use a submersible sump in this particular application as I need it to feed my chiller prior to the water going to the return lines. There is just way too much head and I don't want to use two pumps to do the job that one external pump could do. I like these plumbing pics..anyone else have some pics. Thanks