ID: Antennata or Mombassa lionfish, and ghost shrimp in tank

dendro982 · 04/19/2007, 08:40 AM

Always was so sure, that my bunny lion in Antennata, but after re-reading the article Info sheet on Lionfish care decided to ask: is it Antennata or Mombassa lionfish?
Youngster:

Later:

Now:

Face:

Large eyes, large antennae, not a single row of spots on the fins, much more sensitive to water quality, than volitan...
Refuses to eat anything, but live AND moving ghost shrimp, tried everything.
Any info on sexing them? Not that I plan another lion for such small tank - out of curiosity.

And another question: keeping the ghost shrimps in main tank for a cleaning and as a food, how to do that, any pitfalls? How many for 90g, considering that some will be eaten?

Two fishes will be hunting them - Chaetodermis filefish and this lion. Can they overeat and become sick (sorry for a question, but so far the fish was healthy, knock on the wood)?

And adapting to higher salinity: buy the batch of 50 and raise gradually salinity in their tank, daily?
Anything else I should know?

Reptiboy · 04/19/2007, 01:39 PM

looks like an antennata to me, to my knowledge the only lions that can be sexed is the fuzzy dwarf. the lion will eat almost all the ghost shrimp in the first few hours (mine did)

sharkbyte1023 · 04/19/2007, 11:24 PM

It is a mombassa. We have one as well and he will only eat ghost shrimp or saltwater sargassum shrimp as well. I put in live baby greenies and spanish mackeral and he followed them but did not take one. He watches the other lions eat but he won't. Some grass shrimp have escaped from being eaten and have lived for a few days before being eaten. I have not tried to keep any in there other than the escapees after a feeding so i can't help you there. Good luck.

justinl · 04/20/2007, 01:28 AM

i wouldn't keep much live feed in there. at most three maybe? but i wouldn't do that often since a lion will eat as much as it can fit in itself. overfeeding can lead to various problems.

justinl · 04/20/2007, 01:35 AM

btw that is a P. antennata. notice the pectoral fin webbing. in radiata you can see that the web ends to make a defined semi circle kind of shape. mombassa's fin webbing sort of ends whenever it wants... for pics, refer back to the Info sheet on Lionfish care that you linked

dendro982 · 04/20/2007, 06:37 AM

Checked again, made the list of differences, compared:
As Antennata:
- has webbing that connects only halfway up the fin ray, except the bottom rays,
- large antennae,
- doesn't have: the single row of spotting on the pectoral fins, a trait which helps identify this species.

As Mombassa:
- has large eyes, out of proportion,
- vertical striping patterns are of lighter color, with distinguishable scales pattern and the what seems like an almost hump of fat - yellowish, right above the head - just like on Mombassa photos in article,
- fins have multiple eyespots throughout the fin, unlike antennata.

Still confused...

FMarini · 04/20/2007, 07:08 AM

1,2,3 mombassae......
Interesting pattern thou, the eye spots on the pec fins are clearly defined but multiple rows, not singles. I can understand why you are confused. The striping pattern, and pec fins rays are a very soild ID giveaway. Maybe its a hybrid

Anyway I have to congradulate you for getting this fish to a wonderful size. Most lionkeepers have success w/ large bodied lion, but seldom have I seen (besides me) a large P Mombassae

if you find SW ghost shrimp them sure you can keep the ghost shrimp in the tank full time, prolly 100s, of ghost shrimp, since they will hide in the rockwork, and eat algae and detritus. Problem is they will be eaten, and eaten and eaten, and since they bred so slow- you'll have to restock the ghost shtimp again and again.

yes your fish will overeat a few time, but after a while they will eat their fill, then stop.
I have a friend who keeps 50-100 sheepshead minnows (a sw minnow) in his 300 gal tank full of lions. Its a constant live food source, and honestly i've never seen such healthy lions.

you cant sex these fish, but the good news is-if your tank is big enough another P mombassae won't fight

dendro982 · 04/20/2007, 08:20 AM

Thank you!
The lion is not so big, as it seems - around 4.5", before the tail fin. It's camera compliments the majestic fish

The ghost shrimp: it's, probably, FW kind - no sources of saltwater near, Great Lakes only.
But, as I had read, they should be brackish species, may be it's possible to adapt them to the saltwater, gradually increasing salinity?
So far the lion stopped to eat fish (guppies and minnows) in the early age, but if he changes his mind, can the rose minnows or fathead minnows live in salt water (only they are available in LFS)?

FMarini · 04/20/2007, 03:06 PM

dendro-
Okay well the photo look like the fish is around 5-7", ie., adult -full sized.
So my interpertation of the the picture is not too far off.

I believe you can adapt FW ghost shrimp to SW, but i've not tried , we get Sw ghost shrimp here in Houston

Same w/ the Sheepshead minnows, they are a saltwater (brackish water) minnow species. We collect them off the coast line here. I've only read about adapting guppies, but haven't done this myself

dendro982 · 04/21/2007, 04:42 AM

Thanks! It's good, that Mombassa lions are smaller, than Antennatas - the tank is only 90g. BTW, the time difference between the first photos and the last is only 8 months - fast growers.

Will try to adapt the ghost shrimp, after building the safe passages (LR bridges) for them in the tank.

04/19/2007, 08:40 AM	#1
dendro982 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 2,963	ID: Antennata or Mombassa lionfish, and ghost shrimp in tank Always was so sure, that my bunny lion in Antennata, but after re-reading the article Info sheet on Lionfish care decided to ask: is it Antennata or Mombassa lionfish? Youngster: Later: Now: Face: Large eyes, large antennae, not a single row of spots on the fins, much more sensitive to water quality, than volitan... Refuses to eat anything, but live AND moving ghost shrimp, tried everything. Any info on sexing them? Not that I plan another lion for such small tank - out of curiosity. And another question: keeping the ghost shrimps in main tank for a cleaning and as a food, how to do that, any pitfalls? How many for 90g, considering that some will be eaten? Two fishes will be hunting them - Chaetodermis filefish and this lion. Can they overeat and become sick (sorry for a question, but so far the fish was healthy, knock on the wood)? And adapting to higher salinity: buy the batch of 50 and raise gradually salinity in their tank, daily? Anything else I should know?

04/20/2007, 07:08 AM	#7
FMarini 10 & Over Club Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Winston-Salem, NC Posts: 5,260	1,2,3 mombassae...... Interesting pattern thou, the eye spots on the pec fins are clearly defined but multiple rows, not singles. I can understand why you are confused. The striping pattern, and pec fins rays are a very soild ID giveaway. Maybe its a hybrid Anyway I have to congradulate you for getting this fish to a wonderful size. Most lionkeepers have success w/ large bodied lion, but seldom have I seen (besides me) a large P Mombassae if you find SW ghost shrimp them sure you can keep the ghost shrimp in the tank full time, prolly 100s, of ghost shrimp, since they will hide in the rockwork, and eat algae and detritus. Problem is they will be eaten, and eaten and eaten, and since they bred so slow- you'll have to restock the ghost shtimp again and again. yes your fish will overeat a few time, but after a while they will eat their fill, then stop. I have a friend who keeps 50-100 sheepshead minnows (a sw minnow) in his 300 gal tank full of lions. Its a constant live food source, and honestly i've never seen such healthy lions. you cant sex these fish, but the good news is-if your tank is big enough another P mombassae won't fight __________________ Fish die belly-up and float to the surface: its their way of falling- Andre Gide

04/20/2007, 08:20 AM	#8
dendro982 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 2,963	Thank you! The lion is not so big, as it seems - around 4.5", before the tail fin. It's camera compliments the majestic fish The ghost shrimp: it's, probably, FW kind - no sources of saltwater near, Great Lakes only. But, as I had read, they should be brackish species, may be it's possible to adapt them to the saltwater, gradually increasing salinity? So far the lion stopped to eat fish (guppies and minnows) in the early age, but if he changes his mind, can the rose minnows or fathead minnows live in salt water (only they are available in LFS)? __________________ Multiple Tank Syndrome: 15g shallow hi light - Xmas tree rocks, nps, sps, clams 6g shallow dark - sun corals collection 5g - sea apples NC12 - tube anemone 20g L - frogfish 125g - filefishes and lion Current Tank Info: 6 BB tanks: NPS, filter feeders and odd fish. LPS, sps and clams too

04/20/2007, 03:06 PM	#9
FMarini 10 & Over Club Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Winston-Salem, NC Posts: 5,260	dendro- Okay well the photo look like the fish is around 5-7", ie., adult -full sized. So my interpertation of the the picture is not too far off. I believe you can adapt FW ghost shrimp to SW, but i've not tried , we get Sw ghost shrimp here in Houston Same w/ the Sheepshead minnows, they are a saltwater (brackish water) minnow species. We collect them off the coast line here. I've only read about adapting guppies, but haven't done this myself __________________ Fish die belly-up and float to the surface: its their way of falling- Andre Gide Last edited by FMarini; 04/20/2007 at 08:01 PM.

04/21/2007, 04:42 AM	#10
dendro982 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 2,963	Thanks! It's good, that Mombassa lions are smaller, than Antennatas - the tank is only 90g. BTW, the time difference between the first photos and the last is only 8 months - fast growers. Will try to adapt the ghost shrimp, after building the safe passages (LR bridges) for them in the tank. __________________ Multiple Tank Syndrome: 15g shallow hi light - Xmas tree rocks, nps, sps, clams 6g shallow dark - sun corals collection 5g - sea apples NC12 - tube anemone 20g L - frogfish 125g - filefishes and lion Current Tank Info: 6 BB tanks: NPS, filter feeders and odd fish. LPS, sps and clams too

04/19/2007, 01:39 PM	#2
Reptiboy Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 9	looks like an antennata to me, to my knowledge the only lions that can be sexed is the fuzzy dwarf. the lion will eat almost all the ghost shrimp in the first few hours (mine did)

04/19/2007, 11:24 PM	#3
sharkbyte1023 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 145	It is a mombassa. We have one as well and he will only eat ghost shrimp or saltwater sargassum shrimp as well. I put in live baby greenies and spanish mackeral and he followed them but did not take one. He watches the other lions eat but he won't. Some grass shrimp have escaped from being eaten and have lived for a few days before being eaten. I have not tried to keep any in there other than the escapees after a feeding so i can't help you there. Good luck.

04/20/2007, 01:28 AM	#4
justinl Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 2,118	i wouldn't keep much live feed in there. at most three maybe? but i wouldn't do that often since a lion will eat as much as it can fit in itself. overfeeding can lead to various problems.

04/20/2007, 01:35 AM	#5
justinl Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 2,118	btw that is a P. antennata. notice the pectoral fin webbing. in radiata you can see that the web ends to make a defined semi circle kind of shape. mombassa's fin webbing sort of ends whenever it wants... for pics, refer back to the Info sheet on Lionfish care that you linked

04/20/2007, 06:37 AM	#6
dendro982 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 2,963	Checked again, made the list of differences, compared: As Antennata: - has webbing that connects only halfway up the fin ray, except the bottom rays, - large antennae, - doesn't have: the single row of spotting on the pectoral fins, a trait which helps identify this species. As Mombassa: - has large eyes, out of proportion, - vertical striping patterns are of lighter color, with distinguishable scales pattern and the what seems like an almost hump of fat - yellowish, right above the head - just like on Mombassa photos in article, - fins have multiple eyespots throughout the fin, unlike antennata. Still confused...