what's the recipe for good cheato growth?

Sk8r · 04/26/2007, 08:51 AM

Some of the folk in the New-to area are having trouble growing cheato.

Any suggestions how to keep it healthy, what its needs are?

What are the likely reasons for cheato fizzling out and dying off in a lighted fuge?

graveyardworm · 04/26/2007, 06:23 PM

Reasons for cheato fizzling out.

Lack of nutrients - Unlikely in a fed aquarium with some bioload, unless there is alot of competition for available nutrients. Competition could be in the form of other macros and/or micro algae.

Inadequate lighting - Cheato IMO is pretty forgiving as far as lighting is concerned, lack of lighting is unlikely, unless the cheato is low in the tank, or wattage is extremely low.

Inadequate flow - Cheato needs good flow to bring fresh nutrients, and remove wastes. Flow is also necessary to prvent detritus build up on and in the ball.

Detritus build up - Detritus build up can limit the light getting to the algae, and can block gas exchange. About once per week I stretch, fluff, and shake my cheato to help keep it clean within the ball, and to keep the ball loose which aids in getting flow and light into the ball.

Anyone else with other reasons or suggestions?

Mac Inger · 04/27/2007, 01:14 PM

Guys what is the final word on lighting for chaeto. 24/7 or reverse cycle ? Everybody seems to have an opinion of their own on this one and there are very successful people on both camps. I think Melev runs his 24/7.

reefgrief · 04/27/2007, 02:28 PM

I keep a 120 with cheato (biomass ~1 #) , Caulerpa prolifera ( ~ 50 nodes) and several clumps of macro which looks like Acetabularia.

I use rain water makeup (not recommended for new tanks), and occasionally supplement with Iron , Iodide, and Magnesium. ( sorry but i dont measure the tank conc for these.. if the plant new growth begins to pale, I supplement sparringly

(if you remember botany.. iron, magnesium and phosphate are required for chlorphyll production and membrane integrity of chloroplast / electron transport. So is iodide, but, in trace amts.
Lighting is a Coralife power compact using 4- 65w 10,000 k bulbs. Not the greatest light but it gives u an idea of what will work.
Tank has 4-5 inch of fine aragonite substrate.( helps hold pH constant). I added 2 fish ( clown and wrasse) for fun and a skimmer in a seperate 30gal sump to hold down protein waste from fish food decay, and unicellular algae . Other than stomatela and a few snails, I do NOT have any grazers in this tank.

I welcome ideas, or criticisms

reefgrief · 04/27/2007, 02:36 PM

Shoot, I forgot to answer MacIngers question:

I happen to run my lights 12hr on ,, 12 off..

Chaeto doesnt seem to flower

So photoperiod shouldnt matter, I bet 24/7 wouldnt hurt if CO2 was pumped in with an airstone.. just be sure to monitor pH on the 24/7 tank.. It might fluctuate widely enough to stress other inhabitants.. My pH is fairly constant at 8.1 ro 8.3 during the day.. ( I should get a reading at night,, but I dont sleep walk yet. ) . lol

lecher · 04/27/2007, 09:05 PM

I've read chateo needs periods of darkness. I run my lights 12 on/12 off. I had a hard time at first getting my chaeto to grow. It would not grow and hair algae would grow on all over it. After I started feeding my tank 2 times a day as opposed to once and removed the carbon I was running the chaeto took off. And the hair algae slowly went away.

Mac Inger · 04/27/2007, 10:22 PM

Thanks guys for the replies. Its all food for thought. Id still like to hear from some people that run it under 24/7 lights. Just to get their point of view. Im not sure if i am hijacking the thread btw....

graveyardworm · 04/27/2007, 10:23 PM

Reefgrief, if your dosing magnesium the it should definately be tested for. Magnesium is fairly low demand item especially in a planted tank. It can quickly build up, not sure how high magenesium might effect the plants, but what could happen as a result it could throw off the balance of calcium and alkalinity which could lead to other problems.

Rain water for makeup is a bad idea in any saltwater tank. Alot of pollutants come down in the rain, these can build up over time and slowly or quickly in some cases poison your tank.

Iron and Iodide quickly precipitate out and/or are utilized so may not need to be tested for, but initial testing should be done to ensure that overdosing isnt occuring. Once a dosing regime is determined to be safe and not result in overdose then testing may not need to be done as frequently.

To answer the the lighting question: Cheato will grow better with a dark period. Tha dark period allows the plant time to rest and work on growth and repair more efficiently without also having to photosynthesize.

I light my fuge 14 on, 10 off

reefgrief · 04/28/2007, 12:06 AM

Ok.. good to know about the Magnesium. I guess I need to dig a bit deeper before I "sprinkle in the spices" I must be lucky here, but I was under the Impression that Aragonite was better than Calcite sand because it held higher Magnesium.. .. Also Magnesium carbonate will precipitate faster than Calcium, so shouldn't that protect the levels ?

You can see I haven't got this info down firmly.. so back to the chemistry forums.

Dummy me.. I was concerned with only 3 pollutants.. NO3 from lightning,, and NO2 and SO2 from carbonaceous fuel exhaust.. (the last two certainly effect pH. ) Not sure what other pollutants might be prevalent.. but I quess dust might carry trace Copper or some such salts..

Anyone know of a study on trace elements in rainwater ? ( not being sarcastic here just lazy)

piercho · 04/28/2007, 12:54 PM

I've played with Chaeto twice, its not my favorite export macro, but here are some notions and observations I've made:[list=1][*]Try to get it from a reefer who is exporting it rather than buying it online. I have a notion that there is a "super-strain" of Chaeto passed between reef tanks that has a better chance of success than wild-harvested Chaeto sold online.[*]Try moderate lighting like PC. I used really strong lighting (250W 6500K) over it and strong lighting seemed to give other algae the edge, IME.[*]Dose a small amount of chelated iron. A daily or weekly addition of iron is prudent to keep iron from becomming a limiting nutrient. Kent's, which also has Molybdenum, seems to be a decent brand.[*]Promote gas exchange. I pushed my foamy overflow return under it and let the flow rise up through it. More complicated but possible is to spin the Chaeto wad by directing the OF water at an appropriate angle.[*]Try other algae. Chaeto isn't the only algae in the sea. Chaeto does not grow well in all setups. Some people get tunnelvision and forget the point is to bind and export nutrients - not to culture a specific algae.[/list=1]

04/26/2007, 08:51 AM	#1
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	what's the recipe for good cheato growth? Some of the folk in the New-to area are having trouble growing cheato. Any suggestions how to keep it healthy, what its needs are? What are the likely reasons for cheato fizzling out and dying off in a lighted fuge? __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

04/26/2007, 06:23 PM	#2
graveyardworm Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nottingham, NH Posts: 7,251	Reasons for cheato fizzling out. Lack of nutrients - Unlikely in a fed aquarium with some bioload, unless there is alot of competition for available nutrients. Competition could be in the form of other macros and/or micro algae. Inadequate lighting - Cheato IMO is pretty forgiving as far as lighting is concerned, lack of lighting is unlikely, unless the cheato is low in the tank, or wattage is extremely low. Inadequate flow - Cheato needs good flow to bring fresh nutrients, and remove wastes. Flow is also necessary to prvent detritus build up on and in the ball. Detritus build up - Detritus build up can limit the light getting to the algae, and can block gas exchange. About once per week I stretch, fluff, and shake my cheato to help keep it clean within the ball, and to keep the ball loose which aids in getting flow and light into the ball. Anyone else with other reasons or suggestions? __________________ -David- President - New Hampshire Reef Club There’ll be no one to save, with the world in a grave Current Tank Info: 100 gal lagoon/seagrass, 100 gal sump, Lifereef 72" skimmer, 180 inwall, 125 inwall seagrass/lagoon in progress

04/27/2007, 02:28 PM	#4
reefgrief Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Hamilton, Ohio Posts: 80	I keep a 120 with cheato (biomass ~1 #) , Caulerpa prolifera ( ~ 50 nodes) and several clumps of macro which looks like Acetabularia. I use rain water makeup (not recommended for new tanks), and occasionally supplement with Iron , Iodide, and Magnesium. ( sorry but i dont measure the tank conc for these.. if the plant new growth begins to pale, I supplement sparringly (if you remember botany.. iron, magnesium and phosphate are required for chlorphyll production and membrane integrity of chloroplast / electron transport. So is iodide, but, in trace amts. Lighting is a Coralife power compact using 4- 65w 10,000 k bulbs. Not the greatest light but it gives u an idea of what will work. Tank has 4-5 inch of fine aragonite substrate.( helps hold pH constant). I added 2 fish ( clown and wrasse) for fun and a skimmer in a seperate 30gal sump to hold down protein waste from fish food decay, and unicellular algae . Other than stomatela and a few snails, I do NOT have any grazers in this tank. I welcome ideas, or criticisms __________________ hmmm.. I should've unplugged that pump before I moved the hose :( Current Tank Info: 150g reef

04/27/2007, 02:36 PM	#5
reefgrief Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Hamilton, Ohio Posts: 80	Shoot, I forgot to answer MacIngers question: I happen to run my lights 12hr on ,, 12 off.. Chaeto doesnt seem to flower So photoperiod shouldnt matter, I bet 24/7 wouldnt hurt if CO2 was pumped in with an airstone.. just be sure to monitor pH on the 24/7 tank.. It might fluctuate widely enough to stress other inhabitants.. My pH is fairly constant at 8.1 ro 8.3 during the day.. ( I should get a reading at night,, but I dont sleep walk yet. ) . lol __________________ hmmm.. I should've unplugged that pump before I moved the hose :( Current Tank Info: 150g reef

04/27/2007, 10:23 PM	#8
graveyardworm Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nottingham, NH Posts: 7,251	Reefgrief, if your dosing magnesium the it should definately be tested for. Magnesium is fairly low demand item especially in a planted tank. It can quickly build up, not sure how high magenesium might effect the plants, but what could happen as a result it could throw off the balance of calcium and alkalinity which could lead to other problems. Rain water for makeup is a bad idea in any saltwater tank. Alot of pollutants come down in the rain, these can build up over time and slowly or quickly in some cases poison your tank. Iron and Iodide quickly precipitate out and/or are utilized so may not need to be tested for, but initial testing should be done to ensure that overdosing isnt occuring. Once a dosing regime is determined to be safe and not result in overdose then testing may not need to be done as frequently. To answer the the lighting question: Cheato will grow better with a dark period. Tha dark period allows the plant time to rest and work on growth and repair more efficiently without also having to photosynthesize. I light my fuge 14 on, 10 off __________________ -David- President - New Hampshire Reef Club There’ll be no one to save, with the world in a grave Current Tank Info: 100 gal lagoon/seagrass, 100 gal sump, Lifereef 72" skimmer, 180 inwall, 125 inwall seagrass/lagoon in progress

04/27/2007, 01:14 PM	#3
Mac Inger Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Lost Angeles Posts: 980	Guys what is the final word on lighting for chaeto. 24/7 or reverse cycle ? Everybody seems to have an opinion of their own on this one and there are very successful people on both camps. I think Melev runs his 24/7.

04/27/2007, 09:05 PM	#6
lecher Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: SC Posts: 676	I've read chateo needs periods of darkness. I run my lights 12 on/12 off. I had a hard time at first getting my chaeto to grow. It would not grow and hair algae would grow on all over it. After I started feeding my tank 2 times a day as opposed to once and removed the carbon I was running the chaeto took off. And the hair algae slowly went away.

04/27/2007, 10:22 PM	#7
Mac Inger Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Lost Angeles Posts: 980	Thanks guys for the replies. Its all food for thought. Id still like to hear from some people that run it under 24/7 lights. Just to get their point of view. Im not sure if i am hijacking the thread btw....

04/28/2007, 12:06 AM	#9
reefgrief Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Hamilton, Ohio Posts: 80	Ok.. good to know about the Magnesium. I guess I need to dig a bit deeper before I "sprinkle in the spices" I must be lucky here, but I was under the Impression that Aragonite was better than Calcite sand because it held higher Magnesium.. .. Also Magnesium carbonate will precipitate faster than Calcium, so shouldn't that protect the levels ? You can see I haven't got this info down firmly.. so back to the chemistry forums. Dummy me.. I was concerned with only 3 pollutants.. NO3 from lightning,, and NO2 and SO2 from carbonaceous fuel exhaust.. (the last two certainly effect pH. ) Not sure what other pollutants might be prevalent.. but I quess dust might carry trace Copper or some such salts.. Anyone know of a study on trace elements in rainwater ? ( not being sarcastic here just lazy) __________________ hmmm.. I should've unplugged that pump before I moved the hose :( Current Tank Info: 150g reef

04/28/2007, 12:54 PM	#10
piercho Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 2,194	I've played with Chaeto twice, its not my favorite export macro, but here are some notions and observations I've made:[list=1][]Try to get it from a reefer who is exporting it rather than buying it online. I have a notion that there is a "super-strain" of Chaeto passed between reef tanks that has a better chance of success than wild-harvested Chaeto sold online.[]Try moderate lighting like PC. I used really strong lighting (250W 6500K) over it and strong lighting seemed to give other algae the edge, IME.[]Dose a small amount of chelated iron. A daily or weekly addition of iron is prudent to keep iron from becomming a limiting nutrient. Kent's, which also has Molybdenum, seems to be a decent brand.[]Promote gas exchange. I pushed my foamy overflow return under it and let the flow rise up through it. More complicated but possible is to spin the Chaeto wad by directing the OF water at an appropriate angle.[*]Try other algae. Chaeto isn't the only algae in the sea. Chaeto does not grow well in all setups. Some people get tunnelvision and forget the point is to bind and export nutrients - not to culture a specific algae.[/list=1] __________________ Howard Current Tank Info: 65G reef shut down 2007. 25G planted.