help shrimp and crabs keep dieing

[mulbroc]

hi
i've got a 17gal /60 lts setup been runing it around 8 weeks with 7.5kg of cured liverock and sand bed, a seio m620, with a skimmer (on 12hr timer with lights). tank settings are 26c, salinity 1.025, ammonia 0, nitrite0, nitrate 10, phoshate 0. theres 4 corals in here two types of mushrooms, 1 toadstool and a star polyp with a fanworm on one of the mushrooms. top up daily with ro (1 lt worth) and do a weekly water change of 10%
i added a cuc of snails and a few crabs a few weeks ago of which the snails all seem fine other than two which died in transport but the crabs seemed to die off one by one and now i only have one left. so this weekend i added a cleaner shrimp when i woke up this morning the shrimp was dead by my star polyp he/she was fine 8 hrs before after eating some frozen brineshrimp (defrosted in ro water before feeding) is there something i've done wrong here as i do not want to lose anymore

[BigScott]

are you sure the shrimp dident molt>?..

scott

[adova]

What are you Magnesium, Calcium and Alkalinity levels? I seem to remember that inverts use Magnesium for life... Target levels should be:

Mg - 1350
Ca - 430
Alk - 8-11 dKH

Shawn

[alexb518]

chances are that your shrimp did indeed molt. as for the snails, it's probably that you didn't adequatly acclimate them.

[mulbroc]

Originally posted by alexb518
chances are that your shrimp did indeed molt. as for the snails, it's probably that you didn't adequatly acclimate them.

nope shrimp is indeed dead def not a molt was hoping it was when i first saw it.
as to the snails they where dead before they even went into the tank as they where posted over night and they never survived the trip.
sorry to say don't have a magnesium or calcium test kit at the moment so can test but my alk is 10gkh

[adova]

Getting the other 2 test kits is highly recommended anyways as they are all closely related to each other and a prerequisite for healthy coral and tank life. I will see if I can verify the role of Mg in invertebrate health.

[Aquarist007]

snails and crabs is actually not the greatest mix--the hermits will kill the snails for their shells and then change their minds.
I don't see temp mentioned---over 85 could bother shrimp and some corals.

[mulbroc]

i'll try to pick up both of them asap is there any makes anybody would recommend to have or avoid

[Aquarist007]

sorry I did see the temp--84-85--is on the high side. keep an eye out for spikes in temp with your lights on

[Sk8r]

You know that shelled creatures need really good long acclimation: they can't 'sweat'. They die from osmotic shock, ie, tissue disruption.

[mulbroc]

26c is about 78f

[GSMguy]

alk is high

[mulbroc]

Originally posted by Sk8r
You know that shelled creatures need really good long acclimation: they can't 'sweat'. They die from osmotic shock, ie, tissue disruption.

it took about 90mins to acclimatize i floated the bag for 15min then added some tank water every 5-10 for about hour then after 15mins rest released into the tank thought this would be ok time wise

[adova]

GSMGuy - what is the appropriate level of Alk? 10 dKh is too high?

[steveperry]

Proper acclimation is very important. Most fish dealers keep a Specific Gravity of 1.017-1.018 to keep cost down on mixing salt. When acclimating I put the fish/verts in a bucket (or large bowl) with the water they came in. I siphon water (using some air line tubing) from the tank into the bucket, and regulate the flow with a small gang valve (tying a knot in in the tubing will work also, varying the tightness will vary the flow). Shoot for 3-5 drops per second. If the bowl/bucket gets full, pour some of the water off and continue for an hour.

Might not be the best way, but its the way I do it

[Amoore311]

I think the problem was the acclimation.

I wouldn't even think about acclimating a shrimp w/o the drop method. I do a 1hr drip acclimation on all snails and inverts.

[mulbroc]

ok will bear that why in mind when i get another one as i do what a shrimp/crab combo in the tank in the end

[fuzzyt]

Might try to figure out why the nitrates are high.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysmata_amboinensis

Many inverts are sensitive to high nitrate levels.

Best of luck!

[alexb518]

true, you need to acclimate for a long time. i usually do inverts for 2-3 hours to be on the safe side. you can do as suggested above, or i'll tell you what i do and you can decide what's best for you.

1)open the bag, and dump half the water out.
2)add water from my tank into the bag. the goal is to double the volume of the bag over the course of 2-3 hours. HOWEVER, start off doing this really slow, and increase as you get closer to the 2-3 hour mark/doubling the bag volume.
3)then i will put the bag in the tank for 5-10 minutes and float it or clip it to the side and this will bring the temp a little closer.

this has worked for me, and my fish/invert loss is virtually none.

[Sk8r]

I wonder, though, if it could be some other cause, because it was a long acclimation: hardier shrimp, and, lord knows, snails, ought to be able to withstand it.

[Gdevine]

Originally posted by Sk8r
I wonder, though, if it could be some other cause, because it was a long acclimation: hardier shrimp, and, lord knows, snails, ought to be able to withstand it.

You're right. I acclimate shrimp for max about 1 hour just adding tank water every 5 to 10 minutes until I double their LFS water volume. Then scoot them in...

For snails and hermits...just plop them in...never had a problem.

[adova]

I was waiting to get into a debate with GSMGuy, but for the record to the other readers of the post, a Alk reading of 8-11 dKH is fine, with many experts leaning to the high end...

Shawn