Do you NEED a sump??

EvilE · 05/22/2007, 09:11 PM

I am gonna convert my 30 gallon setup, to a 55 soon. The 55 is not drilled. I plan on keeping it pretty simple, like my current 30, a few fish, urchins, snails, reef hermits, LR and a few softies here and there. Do I absolutely NEED a sump system?? Or can I convert like a aquaclear 70 or 110 into a mini fuge, and use a good canister filter??

drummereef · 05/22/2007, 09:16 PM

Nope, but it will make your life a lot easier and is a place to house some of the equipment. And it will allow you to keep a fuge if you so desire. I keep a sumpless 40g mixed reef. My next tank will have a sump/fuge setup.

Agu · 05/22/2007, 09:16 PM

No

Yes

EvilE · 05/22/2007, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by drummereef
Nope, but it will make your life a lot easier and is a place to house some of the equipment. And it will allow you to keep a fuge if you so desire. I keep a sumpless 40g mixed reef. My next tank will have a sump/fuge setup.

please elaborate. Why would it be so much easier?? Plus, I really don't know how to setup a sump system, or have the tools to do so. I am not experienced at all in the sump dept.

sjm817 · 05/22/2007, 09:32 PM

I personally couldn't imagine running a system without a sump.

demonsp · 05/22/2007, 09:41 PM

Only if you dont get any dragonents. But a fun option. Just do your weekly water changes , have good skimmer and enough LR with a system not overloaded with stock will do just fine without one.

drummereef · 05/22/2007, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EvilE
please elaborate. Why would it be so much easier?? Plus, I really don't know how to setup a sump system, or have the tools to do so. I am not experienced at all in the sump dept.

One aspect where I really wish I had a sump was in regards to water changes. Siphoning water out of my display is somewhat stressful to the inhabitants. I also wish my heater and skimmer pump was not in the main display either. Finding a place for my controller probes is also a pain. Believe me, if you can do a sump - do it. Adding more water volume to your system will also help to keep your chemistry stable. Buy a reef-ready tank and make a simple sump out of a glass tank. It's really not hard to do. Here's a link.

http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/sumps/glass/

alan214 · 05/22/2007, 09:47 PM

From Jim Turnbough at the Idaho Marine News:

"By using a sump you add to the water capacity of your system. Adding water increases stability of parameters such as pH and temperature. Water being pumped from the sump increases the amount of water movement in the display tank. It is also a good place to hide heaters and filter media such as carbon. Protein skimmers made for sumps are generally of higher capacity, cost less and work better than hang on skimmers. Dosing of calcium and other trace elements is less stressful when added to a sump. By adding some sand, caulurpa and a light one can create a refugium or a RDP (Reverse Daylight Photosynthesis) type filter."

EvilE · 05/22/2007, 10:53 PM

Thanks for all your input--I have a TON to learn.....

clevername · 05/22/2007, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sjm817
I personally couldn't imagine running a system without a sump.

Agree, why wouldn't you? that's the question.

It provides water flow, stableness, filters without the added eye soar. Im confused why people would want to see pumps, simmers, heaters in there tank. Not exactly the most natural enviorment.

alan214 · 05/22/2007, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by clevername2000
Agree, why wouldn't you? that's the question.

Im confused why people would want to see pumps, simmers, heaters in there tank. Not exactly the most natural enviorment.

Exactly. It's bad enough that we have to see the powerheads (in most tanks, at least).

EvilE · 05/22/2007, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by clevername2000
Agree, why wouldn't you? that's the question.

It provides water flow, stableness, filters without the added eye soar. Im confused why people would want to see pumps, simmers, heaters in there tank. Not exactly the most natural enviorment.

Why wouldn't I? Don't know how to do it I guess is the first answer. I am still a SW newbie, and have noone near me that can show me how or help. I have kept fish for a while, but never a sump system---don't know exactly what to do. Wish I had an experienced friend to come over and help me, and show me how it all works, and how to set it up.

demonsp · 05/22/2007, 11:13 PM

Refugium is a great idea , but just consern yourself with the tank you have and whene you feel comfertible (god i can t spell) with the runnings of the main tank then go refugium.Patiants is the best thing for this hobby.

EvilE · 05/22/2007, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by demonsp
Refugium is a great idea , but just consern yourself with the tank you have and whene you feel comfertible (god i can t spell) with the runnings of the main tank then go refugium.Patiants is the best thing for this hobby.

great advice--thanks!

Nano Chris · 05/23/2007, 04:23 AM

You can use the 30 gallon as a sump, and get a HOB overflow, and a pump, much more worth it than a aqua clear. You would be able to grow algae in there, and be able to have lr rubble to help with the bio-load, it also make top-off and water changes easier. Unless you are going to run carbon in that canister filter, don't get it.

SeanySean · 05/23/2007, 06:27 AM

Having had both as well I will never go back to a sump unless it is a nano type setup.. usual spiel as what differences I have noted

No more heaters or pumps to hide even powerheads can be hidden as with my Tunze enclosure
dosing top up water, meds and additives is better as it mixes before entering main
water level of main never drops
contingency
Better gas exchange
Refugium an option

Although you do not have a lot of experience you will not find it hard to do. Just a little research as you are doing now and you'r on your way

Sean

supateddy · 05/23/2007, 08:38 AM

melevsreef.com is a great place to read about sumps, also has a lot of useful links.

Ansphire · 05/23/2007, 09:40 AM

Quote:

[i]Why wouldn't I? Don't know how to do it I guess is the first answer.

Hey man,, I'm a SW neebie too and I made one.. Its no big deal.

If you have the $$.. You can buy the overflow box, the return pump and the sump already made.

If you don't (like me..lol) Its very easy to make it yourself. You buy a tank, go to the hardware store and buy sheets of acrilic or the plastic they have for like 3bucks a piece, buy silicone and glue it yourself.. no big deal. Then sit all the stuff inside, the skimmer, heater, refugium and return pump...

The plumbing is allot easier than what I thought.. And Cheap!...

Let me know I can take pics and show you how I made it..

Rick

ludnix · 05/23/2007, 09:53 AM

I agree with Ansphire, if you have room for a 10g tank or something underneath your aquarium then you can just put one of those under the stand and add some baffles where you want.

Like said earlier reading www.melevsreef.com will answer questions you might have and show you exactly how you do make one yourself.

Sk8r · 05/23/2007, 09:59 AM

I know this, evile, if you get a good one, give it a couple of years, and you'll be telling someone else who asks this question, "Yes!" and when they say why, you'll be saying, "Uh, well, it makes your tank more stable, etc."

The short answer is, you can get away without it with the things you name, and will probably have no trouble if you're good about maintenance. If you decide later to add one, you can still do that via a hob downflow box, and you'll be able to get the heater, pump and most other things now cluttering your tank rim down there and out of sight; you can do your additions down there without worry it will land on a specimen, and you've got a readymade exile for anything you catch you want to get back to the lfs.

andy n1 · 05/23/2007, 11:03 AM

hi there
if your not familiar with the workings of a sump then look at as many pictures of other peoples as you can theres loads posted on here and one other thing do your homework and take your time i mean its always good to get it right first time i remember my first sump and the amount of floods i had i had to buy the wife a new lounge carpet

EvilE · 05/23/2007, 05:39 PM

thank you all very much, beieve I am taking in all of your input!!! I want it done right the first time!!

demonsp · 05/23/2007, 05:47 PM

Wow so pushy. I always learned to go in this hobby step by step. Each of us have differant comfort zones. I was lucky having my brother getting me in this hobby and with his experiance it was alot easier for me but still seemed a little overwelling at first. But now seems almost to easy cause i went step by step. My fuge was up and running about month 4 and really glad i added it. Its a great addition to my system

EvilE · 05/23/2007, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by demonsp
Wow so pushy. I always learned to go in this hobby step by step. Each of us have differant comfort zones. I was lucky having my brother getting me in this hobby and with his experiance it was alot easier for me but still seemed a little overwelling at first. But now seems almost to easy cause i went step by step. My fuge was up and running about month 4 and really glad i added it. Its a great addition to my system

Pushy??

rxonco · 05/23/2007, 07:58 PM

I've gone sump-less for years with no problems.

Here's a link to the tank...

http://www.marshreef.com/TOTM/2007/Feb07/Feb07TOTM.htm

05/22/2007, 09:11 PM	#1
EvilE Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 2,944	Do you NEED a sump?? I am gonna convert my 30 gallon setup, to a 55 soon. The 55 is not drilled. I plan on keeping it pretty simple, like my current 30, a few fish, urchins, snails, reef hermits, LR and a few softies here and there. Do I absolutely NEED a sump system?? Or can I convert like a aquaclear 70 or 110 into a mini fuge, and use a good canister filter??

05/22/2007, 09:16 PM	#2
drummereef Team RC Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: STL Posts: 14,754	Nope, but it will make your life a lot easier and is a place to house some of the equipment. And it will allow you to keep a fuge if you so desire. I keep a sumpless 40g mixed reef. My next tank will have a sump/fuge setup. __________________ -Brett 180g Marineland Starfire In-Wall 278 gallon system

05/22/2007, 09:16 PM	#3
Agu Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Sarasota, Florida Posts: 30,279	No Yes __________________ Less technology , more biology . Current Tank Info: 30 gallon half cube and 5.5, both reef tanks

05/22/2007, 09:32 PM	#5
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	I personally couldn't imagine running a system without a sump. __________________ - Scott

05/22/2007, 09:47 PM	#8
alan214 Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: The Colony, TX Posts: 1,258	From Jim Turnbough at the Idaho Marine News: "By using a sump you add to the water capacity of your system. Adding water increases stability of parameters such as pH and temperature. Water being pumped from the sump increases the amount of water movement in the display tank. It is also a good place to hide heaters and filter media such as carbon. Protein skimmers made for sumps are generally of higher capacity, cost less and work better than hang on skimmers. Dosing of calcium and other trace elements is less stressful when added to a sump. By adding some sand, caulurpa and a light one can create a refugium or a RDP (Reverse Daylight Photosynthesis) type filter." __________________ I live really close to the airport. The other day I was walking across the living room and the stewardess told me to take my seat. Current Tank Info: 73G FOWLR

05/22/2007, 09:41 PM	#6
demonsp Moved On Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: el paso tx Posts: 7,634	Only if you dont get any dragonents. But a fun option. Just do your weekly water changes , have good skimmer and enough LR with a system not overloaded with stock will do just fine without one.

05/22/2007, 10:53 PM	#9
EvilE Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 2,944	Thanks for all your input--I have a TON to learn..... __________________ Targzissians Are Obviously Reptilian Current Tank Info: 55 gallon african cichlid FW, 55 Gallon mixed reef SW

05/22/2007, 11:13 PM	#13
demonsp Moved On Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: el paso tx Posts: 7,634	Refugium is a great idea , but just consern yourself with the tank you have and whene you feel comfertible (god i can t spell) with the runnings of the main tank then go refugium.Patiants is the best thing for this hobby.

05/23/2007, 04:23 AM	#15
Nano Chris Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 2,758	You can use the 30 gallon as a sump, and get a HOB overflow, and a pump, much more worth it than a aqua clear. You would be able to grow algae in there, and be able to have lr rubble to help with the bio-load, it also make top-off and water changes easier. Unless you are going to run carbon in that canister filter, don't get it. __________________ Chris ------- 34 Gallon Red Sea Max 130! Setup (Just got back into the hobby) Current Tank Info: 34 Gallon RedSeaMax!

05/23/2007, 06:27 AM	#16
SeanySean Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Manchester (UK) Posts: 885	Having had both as well I will never go back to a sump unless it is a nano type setup.. usual spiel as what differences I have noted No more heaters or pumps to hide even powerheads can be hidden as with my Tunze enclosure dosing top up water, meds and additives is better as it mixes before entering main water level of main never drops contingency Better gas exchange Refugium an option Although you do not have a lot of experience you will not find it hard to do. Just a little research as you are doing now and you'r on your way Sean __________________ _______________ You paid how much for moldy rock!!!! Current Tank Info: 130G http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1042110

05/23/2007, 08:38 AM	#17
supateddy Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Cloverdale, IN Posts: 85	melevsreef.com is a great place to read about sumps, also has a lot of useful links.

05/23/2007, 09:53 AM	#19
ludnix Registered Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: California Posts: 3,031	I agree with Ansphire, if you have room for a 10g tank or something underneath your aquarium then you can just put one of those under the stand and add some baffles where you want. Like said earlier reading www.melevsreef.com will answer questions you might have and show you exactly how you do make one yourself. __________________ -Eric Sutter Current Tank Info: 14g Biocube

05/23/2007, 09:59 AM	#20
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	I know this, evile, if you get a good one, give it a couple of years, and you'll be telling someone else who asks this question, "Yes!" and when they say why, you'll be saying, "Uh, well, it makes your tank more stable, etc." The short answer is, you can get away without it with the things you name, and will probably have no trouble if you're good about maintenance. If you decide later to add one, you can still do that via a hob downflow box, and you'll be able to get the heater, pump and most other things now cluttering your tank rim down there and out of sight; you can do your additions down there without worry it will land on a specimen, and you've got a readymade exile for anything you catch you want to get back to the lfs. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

05/23/2007, 11:03 AM	#21
andy n1 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: united kingdom Posts: 3	sump hi there if your not familiar with the workings of a sump then look at as many pictures of other peoples as you can theres loads posted on here and one other thing do your homework and take your time i mean its always good to get it right first time i remember my first sump and the amount of floods i had i had to buy the wife a new lounge carpet __________________ "it was'nt me " they made me do it!! Current Tank Info: my new tank 72"x27"x22" been set up for only 3 months but things are taking shape slowly but surely i will post full tank spec at a later date

05/23/2007, 05:39 PM	#22
EvilE Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 2,944	thank you all very much, beieve I am taking in all of your input!!! I want it done right the first time!! __________________ Targzissians Are Obviously Reptilian Current Tank Info: 55 gallon african cichlid FW, 55 Gallon mixed reef SW

05/23/2007, 05:47 PM	#23
demonsp Moved On Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: el paso tx Posts: 7,634	Wow so pushy. I always learned to go in this hobby step by step. Each of us have differant comfort zones. I was lucky having my brother getting me in this hobby and with his experiance it was alot easier for me but still seemed a little overwelling at first. But now seems almost to easy cause i went step by step. My fuge was up and running about month 4 and really glad i added it. Its a great addition to my system

05/23/2007, 07:58 PM	#25
rxonco Reef Pharmacist Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 217	I've gone sump-less for years with no problems. Here's a link to the tank... http://www.marshreef.com/TOTM/2007/Feb07/Feb07TOTM.htm