emergency on qt tank

[sanababit]

i set up a qt tank 3 days ago with the water i took out of DT, its a 10 gal tank, anyways, i put a couple of sponges that i had running on refugium on DT and put them on a HOB filter w/ carbon and installed a heater running at 78, i put in there 2 pajama cardinal fish that i got pretty cheap at petco (thats why i qt the fish), well one fish died today the other one is still with us, i did an emergency check on water and have .25 ammonia, and ph is 7.8, i put a little prime in there to help with ammonia, my question is how can i get teh ph to go back up??, how can i control the ammonia better????, do i have to check the tanks param two times daily?????, do i have to do water changes daily???, anyone out there having qt tanks setup, whats your secret???, thanks

sana

[sanababit]

please anybody???

[Aquarist007]

Regardless of the water the qt tank has to cycle--have you put some live rock in there from the other tank--this will help speed up the cycling process. To raise the pH(which is not that bad) add sodium bicarbonate(baking soda) I would do a 20 per cent water change immediately to bring down the ammonia and remove the fish until the tank cycles.

[mwwhite]

If your going to use any meds for the fish - i would advise not putting in live rock.

We also just had an emergency and had to set up a hospital tank -=- 10 gal -- with everything you mentioned for yours.

I couldn't get ammonia down to zero - it stayed at .25 then crept up to .50. I found that 50% DAILY water changes ONLY managed to get it down to .25.

Ours was not able to cycle although the sponge from the fuge had been in the display tank for a week -- i'm hearing it wasn't long enough.

[alan214]

The liverock should only be there to kickstart the bacteria in the mechanical filter (sponge, etc.). The thing most folks that are new to QT's overlook as that you have to wait for the cycle to finish and ensure the ammonia level is zero BEFORE you add any fish.

What this means is that you can't just throw a QT together and put fish in immediately. The bacteria required to break down ammonia have to have a chance build up and this can take a week or more.

If you have a sponge that you've kept in your sump for some time, you can minimize the time required for the QT to be ready for fish but you still must monitor the ammonia and nitrites before adding fish.

[sanababit]

so you are saying is a good rule of thumb to do a 10% water change daily???, and capt, how much baking soda for 10 gal to get ph up???

sana

[sanababit]

now guys, i am really confused here, i keep reading threads that i only need a heater, powerhead, an hob filter with sponge preferably been in a sump or fuge for a while, NO LR, NO LS, water from main tank is great, no cyclying, since sponge already has bacteria on it, i know everybody has diferent opinions on things, but let me throw this on you, lets say you have a fish that cought ick what now, setup qt tank, put live rock in, wait for it to cycle, this wait will kill your fish, im new, dont have much experience, have read LOTS, i do everything by the book and still manage to kill a fish, so my question here is, i basically know how to set it up, my problem is how to control ph, ammonia (change water often is a good start, i use prime too), and keep the tank as healty as possible for my pets so they make it thru qt, please i dont mean to sound cruel, i really apreciate the help, thanks

sana

[alan214]

That's why you really should have the QT set up BEFORE you buy a fish.

[Shooter7]

You are on track, sana. The death of your fish may very well have a lot more to do with where you got it from than anything you did at home. Your setup is pretty much exactly what I would have suggested, except for the size of the tank. I run a 29g QT that I keep dry except when I get new fish. I only put at most 2 fish at a time in it, and you had 2 in a 10g. To me, that's too many for that size a tank, especially one that's not cycled completely and just relying on a sponge to do all the work. I would suggest getting a larger tank for QT in the future, or only getting one smaller fish at a time in the 10g. With regards to your current situation, yes, I would suggest frequent testing and water changes for ammonia control. I would suggest more along the lines of about a 30% change each time your ammo reads high, though. The new SW would probably help your pH some as well. I hypo all my new fish coming in, so that adds extra fun to the mix, but I have had very good luck doing it. Ammo and pH control are always major things to monitor, but it can be done. I would suggest mixing up as much extra water as you can and have it ready for several water changes. Good Luck.

[Shagsbeard]

You're going to have to do massive waterchanges (50% or so) daily in an emergency QT for the first week or so to combat ammonia build up since the bacteria that process the ammonia haven't gotten up to steam yet.

Ammonia probably isn't what killed your cardinal... it was probably just stress from the move, as well as toxins used to subdue it from the wild. But you should be working on getting the ammonia down. Prime doesn't do that. Prime removes chlorine and what not from tap water. Add prime to RO/DI water and all you get is diluted prime.

You didn't kill your fish Sanababit. Your fish died. Many more will too... it's not your fault. Ideally, you would get a healthy fish when you buy one from the store... in reality the fish we get are often so damaged by the process of getting them to us that they're dead before we know it. Liver falure is a common cause, from damage that happens weeks before you even saw the fish.

Now... to increase your success rate... Use only RO/DI water, or better yet, head north to Scrips Oceanographic Institute in San Diego and get free filtered natural sea water. That's perfect stuff. Dunno if the border guard will question you though... might make you drink some. Your water quality in TJ is not going to make it in a tank.

Secondly, give your QT a week or so to cycle before you introduce fish... sometimes not possible, but certainly preferable.

[sanababit]

thanks guys, i did not know that is preferably to let qt tank cycle for a while, well anyways i will do water changes and keep ammonia down and ph normal, i probably had one too many fish in there, thanks again

sana

[williams-crist]

I use prime on a regular basis when I'm qting. It's in my opinion safer bet then constantly removing the water.

With many medications they will kill the good bacteria in your QT tank anyway. So, IMO it's difficult to keep a QT cycled if your medicating.

Just buy the prime and dose it every day. I've never suffered losses from this method, but I definetely did with the water change method.

In saltwater people find different methods that work for them, as you can tell from all your post responses.

Debra

[williams-crist]

Forgot, to mention. I've had problems getting cardinals to eat in the past, Are you sure they weren't stressed and not eating when you first got them?

[amike5]

How long did you have the seeded sponge in your display tank? I usually have mine in there 4-6 weeks before I use it. I have never had to cycle my QT after adding the sponge. You may need a bigger sponge. I usually do a 10% water change daily, it only takes couple minutes. IME though it is usually impossible to keep ammonia at 0, mine usually stays at .25 which isn't too bad and hasn't ever caused any negative effects on my fish. I am a pretty heavy feeder though which could explain the ammonia. I don't think that ammonia or ph is your problem. Did you properly acclimate these fish?

[sanababit]

thanks guys for responses, i believe they where eating at store, i havent fed them and will do so later today, i did acclimate them but probably they where really stressed, i had one sponge in there 2 weeks and another one for 1 week, i used a piece of each and put 1 sponge before carbon pad and another one after, just to be sure, im going to use prime for now and do little water changes, thanks again guys

sana

[mwwhite]

Agree. Massive (50%) daily water changes kept the ammonia down to .25. They stayed in there for 14 days. We also used Purigen to try to control ammonia. Not sure it really worked.

Fish had a severe bacterial infection of the tail so we had to treat with meds, rest them for a few days and treat again.

Concerned about ammonia burning the re-growth of the tails we moved them back to display after 14 days.

It worked - tails are showing signs of beautiful re-growth.

But it wasn't fun. Very pleased with outcome though. We saved them.

[amike5]

Originally posted by sanababit
thanks guys for responses, i believe they where eating at store, i havent fed them and will do so later today, i did acclimate them but probably they where really stressed, i had one sponge in there 2 weeks and another one for 1 week, i used a piece of each and put 1 sponge before carbon pad and another one after, just to be sure, im going to use prime for now and do little water changes, thanks again guys

sana

Sounds like you are talking about a small sponge. The sponge you should be using should be one from like a mag pump. Somthing about 6x5 inches or bigger. The more surface area on the sponge the more bacteria it can grow. Always keep one in your display sump for immediate use in your QT.

[sanababit]

the sponge is from a fluval 305, about and inch thick, and 3"x3" square, thanks for advice, i put 2 in tough, i will get a bigger sponge in there to get bacteria going, ohh and i still have a big sponge in my fuge, its about 8"Lx3"w"x1"thick

sana

[mr_o98]

I set-up my QT using water from my display. The water was already cycled and I just do bi-weekly water changes when it is not in use. I have a piece of PVC pipe in the tank so the fish would have a place to hang out and the PVC won't absorb medication.


http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showp...t=1&thecat=500

[sanababit]

OMG that is exactly what i have, and i have a pajama cardinal in qt as we speak, how can i post pictures, how do you get them to a size of 50k, thanks

sana

[mr_o98]

To upload bigger pics to RC you need to purchase a premium membership. It's about 24/year and you get the "I support RC" logo on you profile, and there is other benefits.
To post pictures I used copy and paste for the links and put the link in the IMG block when you go to "post reply".
My QT is a 20g. I've had the same Pajama Cardinal since I started this hobby and I got him from Petco.

[sanababit]

what a koinky dink i got it from petco too, man you are scaring me lol, thanks

sana