Trying to Find a Heater

Dr4g0nf1y · 05/28/2007, 08:19 PM

I'm trying to find a heater with a remote temperature sensor. I'd like to put the business end of the heater in the sump and have it read the temp of the tank. I've found that there is often a LARGE difference between my sump temp and the tank temp (sump being cooler).

I'm having problems finding a company that makes these heaters.

Any leads would be helpful....

BeanAnimal · 05/28/2007, 08:34 PM

A few notes:

1) You do NOT want to put the temp sensor in the tank and the heater in the sump (or the other way around). You are asking for a very serious problem. The heater and the temp sensor should not be isolated from one another by a pump or other limiting means. They should be in the same chamber.

2) Place the heater downstream of the thermostat. The heater should be in a high flow area of the sump on the intake side.

3) Aquarium heaters are junk and can not be trusted to control temperature. Just let them do the heating. You want to invest in a RANCO or similar commercial temperature controller to take over the thermostat duty.

4) Buy several SMALL heaters instead of one large one.

If you follow those basic rules, you should have much better luck and a much safer heating system.

Dr4g0nf1y · 05/28/2007, 08:55 PM

Ok... could you explain item #1 to me a bit more. What kind of problems can occur with the remote sensor?

I did look into the temperature controllers.. but I don't understand how to use them with a themostated Heater.... do I just crank the heater up so it's always on and let the controller do the rest?

BeanAnimal · 05/28/2007, 09:30 PM

Turn the heater up so that it is always on. I would set it at a safety threshold level as a failsafe.

If the heater and sensor are in different compartments, then bad things can happen if you have pump problems. The most dangerous setup is to have the heater in the tank and sensor in teh sump. If the return pump were to fail, then the tank would drop in temp and cause the display to overheat. There are many other failure modes that you can come up with that are not that far fetched. To avoid problems it is best if both components are in the same compartment.

Dr4g0nf1y · 05/31/2007, 07:43 PM

I guess my thought was I can hide the heater in the sump and put the sensor in the tank. This way the tank is never above the target temperature.

The only downside I could see would be if the pump from the sump were to fail. The temp in the tank would drop and the heater would be on untill it boiled the water out of the sump.

sjm817 · 05/31/2007, 08:02 PM

I use a Neptune ACjr controller. My temp probe is in one of the overflows. The heaters are in the basement sump. Works great.

pjf · 05/31/2007, 09:46 PM

Many titanium heaters come with a remote sensor probe, such as those made by Won Brothers (www.wonbrothers.com) and Finnex (www.finnex.net). Unfortunately, their reviews have been mixed.

Temperature controllers, such as the Ranco (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Produc...&N=2004+113767), have remote sensor probes. You can attach a heating element to them although I highly recommend using a thermostatic heater. The sensor probe of my Medusa HC-150 controller accidentally fell out of my aquarium and my Eheim Jager heater that was set a couple of degrees higher saved the system. Similar to sjm817, my probe is in the main tank and my thermostatic heater is in the sump.

As BeanAnimal suggests, you can cut your risks of heater failure by using two small heaters. I would still get thermostatic heaters though.

sjm817 · 05/31/2007, 09:49 PM

Agree with above. My ACjr controls the heaters which are set a couple of degrees higher. If the ACjr failed, the built in heater thermostat would still limit the temp. Double protection.

BeanAnimal · 05/31/2007, 10:03 PM

To add to the comments above...

There is no comparison between the Finnex or Won and a RANCO. The former are hobby junk and the latter is an industrial/commercial temperature controller.

It is very rare for a RANCO to fail. If the unit is used with a thermostatic heater that is set slightly above the units set point, you get an added level of over temperature protection.

It is always better to use several small heaters instead of 1 large one.

The temp probe should be firmly attached or weighted down so that you do not have a mishap.

It is also a very good idea to place both the heater and probe in an area that can never run dry or expose the equipment to the air.

I also prefer to place the heaters in such a manner that they ARE NOT fully immersed. I build them into bulkhead type fittings so that the only wet portion is the heater casing, no seams, gaskets or cords get wet. This substantially reduces the chances of failure.

sjm817 · 06/01/2007, 05:48 AM

Yes, be sure your temp probe is well attached. I have mine tied down to a Durso standpipe about 1/2 way down the overflow. It cant fall out and is always submerged.

05/31/2007, 08:02 PM	#6
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	I use a Neptune ACjr controller. My temp probe is in one of the overflows. The heaters are in the basement sump. Works great. __________________ - Scott

05/31/2007, 09:46 PM	#7
pjf Premium Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,954	Controller with Thermostatic Heater Many titanium heaters come with a remote sensor probe, such as those made by Won Brothers (www.wonbrothers.com) and Finnex (www.finnex.net). Unfortunately, their reviews have been mixed. Temperature controllers, such as the Ranco (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Produc...&N=2004+113767), have remote sensor probes. You can attach a heating element to them although I highly recommend using a thermostatic heater. The sensor probe of my Medusa HC-150 controller accidentally fell out of my aquarium and my Eheim Jager heater that was set a couple of degrees higher saved the system. Similar to sjm817, my probe is in the main tank and my thermostatic heater is in the sump. As BeanAnimal suggests, you can cut your risks of heater failure by using two small heaters. I would still get thermostatic heaters though.

05/31/2007, 09:49 PM	#8
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	Agree with above. My ACjr controls the heaters which are set a couple of degrees higher. If the ACjr failed, the built in heater thermostat would still limit the temp. Double protection. __________________ - Scott

06/01/2007, 05:48 AM	#10
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	Yes, be sure your temp probe is well attached. I have mine tied down to a Durso standpipe about 1/2 way down the overflow. It cant fall out and is always submerged. __________________ - Scott

05/28/2007, 08:19 PM	#1
Dr4g0nf1y Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Shavertown, PA Posts: 692	Trying to Find a Heater I'm trying to find a heater with a remote temperature sensor. I'd like to put the business end of the heater in the sump and have it read the temp of the tank. I've found that there is often a LARGE difference between my sump temp and the tank temp (sump being cooler). I'm having problems finding a company that makes these heaters. Any leads would be helpful....

05/28/2007, 08:34 PM	#2
BeanAnimal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 20,772	A few notes: 1) You do NOT want to put the temp sensor in the tank and the heater in the sump (or the other way around). You are asking for a very serious problem. The heater and the temp sensor should not be isolated from one another by a pump or other limiting means. They should be in the same chamber. 2) Place the heater downstream of the thermostat. The heater should be in a high flow area of the sump on the intake side. 3) Aquarium heaters are junk and can not be trusted to control temperature. Just let them do the heating. You want to invest in a RANCO or similar commercial temperature controller to take over the thermostat duty. 4) Buy several SMALL heaters instead of one large one. If you follow those basic rules, you should have much better luck and a much safer heating system.

05/28/2007, 08:55 PM	#3
Dr4g0nf1y Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Shavertown, PA Posts: 692	Ok... could you explain item #1 to me a bit more. What kind of problems can occur with the remote sensor? I did look into the temperature controllers.. but I don't understand how to use them with a themostated Heater.... do I just crank the heater up so it's always on and let the controller do the rest?

05/28/2007, 09:30 PM	#4
BeanAnimal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 20,772	Turn the heater up so that it is always on. I would set it at a safety threshold level as a failsafe. If the heater and sensor are in different compartments, then bad things can happen if you have pump problems. The most dangerous setup is to have the heater in the tank and sensor in teh sump. If the return pump were to fail, then the tank would drop in temp and cause the display to overheat. There are many other failure modes that you can come up with that are not that far fetched. To avoid problems it is best if both components are in the same compartment.

05/31/2007, 07:43 PM	#5
Dr4g0nf1y Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Shavertown, PA Posts: 692	I guess my thought was I can hide the heater in the sump and put the sensor in the tank. This way the tank is never above the target temperature. The only downside I could see would be if the pump from the sump were to fail. The temp in the tank would drop and the heater would be on untill it boiled the water out of the sump.

05/31/2007, 10:03 PM	#9
BeanAnimal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 20,772	To add to the comments above... There is no comparison between the Finnex or Won and a RANCO. The former are hobby junk and the latter is an industrial/commercial temperature controller. It is very rare for a RANCO to fail. If the unit is used with a thermostatic heater that is set slightly above the units set point, you get an added level of over temperature protection. It is always better to use several small heaters instead of 1 large one. The temp probe should be firmly attached or weighted down so that you do not have a mishap. It is also a very good idea to place both the heater and probe in an area that can never run dry or expose the equipment to the air. I also prefer to place the heaters in such a manner that they ARE NOT fully immersed. I build them into bulkhead type fittings so that the only wet portion is the heater casing, no seams, gaskets or cords get wet. This substantially reduces the chances of failure.