best nw skimmer out there?

[boxfishpooalot]

What is it?

And how much air are theese things pulling in. What an easy skimmer to clean, not just the cup. I own a RO nw-200 rc, and the thing has its flaws, especially air injection. And there is no drain valve for emptying the tube for cleaning, must be syphoned out. I think the best skimmers would inject large amounts of air, at least 20scf for a 20" tall skimmer is good, with 8" reaction chamber.

Skimmers are so complicated... Really want the best plug in and run perfect skimmer. Post a pic if you got one.

[aninjaatemyshoe]

Best??? I guess that honor would go to the BubbleKings:
http://www.aquariumspecialty.com/cat...roducts_id=638

or possibly the Korallenzucht of Germany (actually a knock off of a product from Taiwan):
http://www.korallen-zucht.de/

Wouldn't really know from personal experience seeing as how I don't have 2 grand lying around to dump on a skimmer. As far as bang for you buck goes, however, the RO's are supposed to be among the best... From here I would go with either a Bubble Master (which can be troublesome if you don't have a sump chamber with a constant water level) or a recirc H&S (which is not cheap by any means).

[klam114]

I picked this photo off an earlier thread. What you are describing is about what the ATi Bubblemaster 200 pulls, 38schf on a 8" diameter chamber and approximately 20" tall. Footprint is approximately 8.5"Wx12.5"L

[USC-fan]

the best bang for the $ skimmers are the DAS.

I would get a EX-1 or EX-2......

[HBtank]

Loving my first night playing with the EX-1.

[hahnmeister]

Best pump, or best skimmer? The two are mutually exclusive I think. Best overall, often considered the 'BMW' of skimmers is the Royal Exclusiv Bubble-King... I wouldnt say that they are the very best though. I prefer a taller recirc skimmer myself. I Volcano skimmer would be along those lines.

I would have to say that the best possible skimmer would be from ORCA or a Volcano from aquaticacrylics.com, because they will make whatever you want.

ATB, ATI, Royal-Exclusiv, Fauna-Marin, Korallen-Zucht, Euroreef, Deltec, H&S, DAS, GEO... even the often underestimated AquaMedic T5000 line... all good skimmers. The only skimmers I would stay away from are any of the Honya made skimmers (octos, AE, resun, Pacific Coast Imports, etc), the ASMs (just arent worth it anymore), and the ReefMania.

[klam114]

Originally posted by boxfishpooalot
What is it?

And how much air are theese things pulling in. I think the best skimmers would inject large amounts of air, at least 20scf for a 20" tall skimmer is good, with 8" reaction chamber.

Skimmers are so complicated... Really want the best plug in and run perfect skimmer. Post a pic if you got one.

Lots of great suggestions, but what fits BFPAL's criteria of what he feels the best skimmer should have? For sure, ATi BM200 is one of them with a 8" body, 20" tall and draws around 38schf of air on the one pump. Here's a couple of photos as you requested.

Originally posted by klam114

These photos look perfect to me. Bubbles are really fine (assume it's because of your air valve) and I see you got one of those Deltec air valves as well. You have a really good foamhead building, but it looks new and fresh as if you just finished cleaning your collection cup. Give yourself a little more time and you will get something like this. I got this photo from Ed today as he is in the process of redecorating his reef tank and this is what his skimmer picked up. I witnessed it and it is exactly as dark as you see in the photo. I've never seen it this dark in the the times I've been by his office. He is also using a Deltec air valve on top of the air hose to restrict the air and a gate valve to control the bubble breaking level within the skimmer. If you look closely, the fine bubbles is in the body, neck and inside riser of Ed's BM200. This is 3 days of collecting.

[sjm817]

Box, your criteria of a 20" tall, 8" skimmer is very limiting. Most 8" skimmers will be taller than that. The BM200 seems like it would fit your requirements.

[boxfishpooalot]

well I dont need a skimmer that is only 20" tall, any size will do providing it works good and injects alot of air. The bubble master looks very promising. does it have a removable bubble diffuser plate? If not removable, its going to collect detritus. Keep posting pictures! thanks.

[jaggy]

i would look at the new fauna marin skimmers , but not sure if they are avalible in the states?
same design as bubble king , but alot cheaper !

[USC-fan]

Originally posted by boxfishpooalot
well I dont need a skimmer that is only 20" tall, any size will do providing it works good and injects alot of air. The bubble master looks very promising. does it have a removable bubble diffuser plate? If not removable, its going to collect detritus. Keep posting pictures! thanks.

if you get a bm i would spend the extra and get the bm250. The 250 doesn't have the problems like the bm200 has. Not sure at this point they have fixed the problems with the bm200.

[kodyboy]

I would go with ORCA as well, they can make whatever you want at a good price, and guide you to get what you need, not just want.
I personally like Octopus, ASM and AE skimmers, but I also like to DIY and if you want perfect out of the box these are not for you.
ASM really needs to drop their prices or they will simply cease to exist, between the lack of build quality and price they simply can not compete. ASMs work well, but not well enough for their price.

[hahnmeister]

Originally posted by jaggy
i would look at the new fauna marin skimmers , but not sure if they are avalible in the states?
same design as bubble king , but alot cheaper !

The ATI is a rip-off of the Fauna-Marin, and the Fauna-Marin is not like a Bubbleking. When ATI made the 'twister M', it was an exact clone of the Fauna-Marin, but for the bubble master, they added a pseudo-bubble plate. I call is pseudo, because if you think it operates anything like a BK, you are dead wrong. The BK reduces turbulence and results in a very calm, low turbulence upflow of bubbles. The BM's is a gimmick, designed to appeal to people by saying 'oh, look, it has a bubble plate'. The holes are too large, and close together... and then the contents is still forced together by a 5 or 7" diameter tube on the other side. Put it this way, on a BK, if you removed the bubble plate, the performance would take a serious hit. On a BM, if you were to remove it, you wouldnt even notice... because its not really a diffuser, its just a bunch of holes to pass the bubbles and water through.

[BreadmanMike]

Jon-

You're going to have a bounty on your head from the BM gang.

[King-Kong]

Originally posted by hahnmeister
The ATI is a rip-off of the Fauna-Marin, and the Fauna-Marin is not like a Bubbleking. When ATI made the 'twister M', it was an exact clone of the Fauna-Marin, but for the bubble master, they added a pseudo-bubble plate. I call is pseudo, because if you think it operates anything like a BK, you are dead wrong. The BK reduces turbulence and results in a very calm, low turbulence upflow of bubbles. The BM's is a gimmick, designed to appeal to people by saying 'oh, look, it has a bubble plate'. The holes are too large, and close together... and then the contents is still forced together by a 5 or 7" diameter tube on the other side. Put it this way, on a BK, if you removed the bubble plate, the performance would take a serious hit. On a BM, if you were to remove it, you wouldnt even notice... because its not really a diffuser, its just a bunch of holes to pass the bubbles and water through.

Can you link to anything further discussion this issue? Perhaps actual testing that has been conducted with removing the BM plate, or perhaps testing on bubble plates in general?

Here is a pretty good look at a ATI BM250, showing it's bubble plate.




Here is one of the better shots I could get of a BK bubble plate:





Both plates seem a long the same lines. Enough so that I really doubt it would be fair to call one a "gimmick", but perhaps you've done some testing you can let me know about?

[boxfishpooalot]

I like the ati bm 250. Anyone know what the neck diameter is?

I think the bubble plate is more hassle than its worth. How are you going to push large food particles through it, like chopped shrimp? Then what, its stuck in the bottom and rots? Somthing funny about that.

Perhaps a downdraft is better. I thought becket, but beckets get plugged all the time.

[King-Kong]

With those two strong pumps shoving all the water in there, that really isnt a consideration for me :-\

[sjm817]

Neck diameter is 6". The water in the bottom chamber under the bubble plate spins. Anything that got in there would disolve after a short while.

I made a little video that should help

[hahnmeister]

Originally posted by King-Kong
Can you link to anything further discussion this issue? Perhaps actual testing that has been conducted with removing the BM plate, or perhaps testing on bubble plates in general?

Here is a pretty good look at a ATI BM250, showing it's bubble plate.




Here is one of the better shots I could get of a BK bubble plate:





Both plates seem a long the same lines. Enough so that I really doubt it would be fair to call one a "gimmick", but perhaps you've done some testing you can let me know about?

Nope, dont need to. Just look at it and compare specs... when I saw the two in person, my suspicions were confirmed. That video that sjm817 just posted is all you need to see. Look how crazy that central column is. The BM 250 for instance, might be 10" in diameter for the outer body, but the skimmer itself is really only 7" in diameter... all that outer area is for bubble seperation. So look at it... thats 1800lph of air, and almost 2000lph of water through a 7" diameter body... who cares about the bubble plate?! Compare this to a Euroreef RS250... about 1180 lph of air, and 1200lph of water... through a 8" diameter body that is much taller. The ER RC250 has half the air intake of a BM250, in a 8" diameter body... which do you think will be more turbulent? The bubble plate is a gimmick... look at the previous models that didnt use one... there is no difference. The cylinder that guides the bubbles and water upwards after the bubble plate is the same size... so its not reducing turbulence. Its like taking a garden hose and splicing a filter into it... the water flow will still be the same going in as it will going out no matter what mesh is inside the filter... its recombining everything right after the small bubble plate. Whats the point of a bubble plate, ie: bubble diffuser, if all you arent actually increasing the diameter of the passageway? Its not a diffuser, its just a strainer... a piece of mesh. Whoopie. And then, the actual distance from the 'bubble plate' to the neck in the skimmer is something like only 12" or less... and its a co-current design. That means that the contents of the BM is making a short trip to the top... its relying on the mere fact that it can emulsify 1800lph of air with water... but much of that is wasted on such a short and turbulent contact time. Then take a RC250... half the air, but its a 30" tall skimmer.... and the distance that each bubble has to travel to make it into the neck is 2x as much, and in a much larger body diameter (actually, about 25% more cylinder area for 1/2 the flow). This makes for bubbles that have a much better chance to attract and keep surfactants... so even though the 250 has half the air throughput, its using those bubbles 2x as well. The skimmate on the ATI is watery usually, unless you have the most nutrient laden water. The skimmate from the RC250 by comparison... is thick coffee. Well... its not just all about lph of air, but how you use them.

So all things considered, I would rank the BM250 at about the same level as a ER RC250 because the BM, despite its 1800lph rating, is making bubbles that are only half as effective. Compare the two neck diameters on the skimmers and you will see how similar they are... thats what it comes down to.

And then there is the Bubbleking. The bubbleplate on a BK that does close to a BM250 is a 300series, and that body is much wider (14" diameter) , and the bubble plate for that is 2x the area as the BM. An actual diffuser... not just a plate with holes in it. If you compare the two side by side, you will see how much calmer the flow in the BK is on the inside... its calm, and steady, like a froth of milk rising upwards at a fraction of the speed of the ATI. The contents of the BM250 though... its more turbulent than skimmers without any bubble plate at all.

I hope you get the main idea of what I am saying here... one of the main points of a bubble diffuser is to spread out the flow across a larger area to reduce velocity... like going from the smaller end of a funnel to the larger end. The BMs dont do this, they are running a more condensed output than skimmers without a plate at all. Simply using a plate with a bunch of holes in it doesnt do anything but act like a strainer... you need to spread out the flow for it to be effective. The cylinder that controls the output of the bubble plate after exiting the holes prevents this. The BMs run a more condensed output if anything. They are pretty much like a short beckett.

You want the BM to perform much better, prolly 2x as better with the same exact pumps? Then use a 14" diameter body for the 1800lph BM250 with a 10" diameter central tube.

[mavgi]

like it or not but IMO BM250 perform better then BK250 .

boxfishpooalot :

sometime i have piece of seaweeds that run threw this hole to the cup.......


this skimmer not cost to much as BK but let's see 2 of them run together in real compare test the BM will skim better .
as far as "tea" skimmate i can post here a lot of "tea" color skimmate from the BK skimmer to.
if it was me i was make this skimmer with more 3"-4" high in the collection cup and put this skimmer in 9" deep with 35-40LPM and the foam that this skimmer make in this option i didn't see in any other skimmer even not in the BK skimmer .

personal i didn't saw any BK250 that build foam like this skimmer , if i see one i will buy it ...... this skimmer pull :

35LPM =2150LPH

[hahnmeister]

Sure, anyone can post a pic of any skimmer putting out tea-colored skimmate. But can you post pics of a BM putting out dark, coffee colored skimmate? The lighter skimmate color is more of a consequence of having a short skimmer with a short bubble dwell time... if the bubbles cant get enough skimmate by the time they get to the top, they will condense in the neck, and as they condense, they will drain... leaking nutrients back into the skimmer rather than removing them. So the response it to skim wetter, to prevent the 'leaking'. But this wouldnt be a problem if the bubbles were more nutrient laden. There are two ways to do this though... longer dwell time w/ less turbulence, and more nutrient laden water. It seems to me that the only time the ATI's pull darker skimmate is on heavy load tanks (so its no doubt that ATI would rate the 250 for such large tanks, because without enough bioload, the skimmer wont perform as well).

This is why comparing skimmers by saying which takes out more, or darker, or lighter skimmate, is a joke. The only way to compare two skimmers objectively is to set them up at the same time on the same system, and see which one pulls more skimmate. But wait... what about dark vs. light skimmate? Well... you need to condense the skimmate and weight the remaining solid material. Thats it. Otherwise, all this 'this skimmer makes darker skimmate so it must be better' or 'this skimmer pulls more skimmate out than the last one' means nothing. But I will bet one thing... based on the designs alone, the turbulence in the BM250 kills the performance much more than the BK.

Your pics confirm it somewhat magvi. Look at how the bubbles in the neck are condensing into larger bubbles as they rise in the neck... thats because they are unstable and pop. In a BK, the bubbles rise and rise, and stay small, until they build that foam at the top... much more foam per lph.

[mavgi]

some dark picture








by the way "spayke" have BK300 when i get my BM300 i will put both to test them in his tank if he will accept it

with the mesh the bubble at the begin are bigger when the skimmer break in they are fine , i believe even with the new RD mesh pump it will be the same .when you will test your Sicce pump you will see it ....

[hahnmeister]

Yeah, test them side by side in the same sump at the same time... and try to set them to make the same color skimmate... otherwise, the best way to compare actual volumes of skimmate is to condense them to solid.

[hahnmeister]

"with the mesh the bubble at the begin are bigger when the skimmer break in they are fine , i believe even with the new RD mesh pump it will be the same .when you will test your Sicce pump you will see it ...."

Depends on the dwell time... more stable bubbles in the neck are due to more surfactants on the bubble... nothing else. Just like having water with no soap, water with some soap, and water with alot of soap... the more soap, the more stable the bubbles. Same with skimmate... if the bubbles are stable, they wont combine as much. And the only ways to get bubbles with more surfactants is to increase the bubble effectiveness, or to increase the amount of surfactants in the water. On taller skimmers, you can observe bubbles in the neck that dont even condense... its just fine bubbles from the bottom to the dry head at the top because each bubble is that much more stable.

[mavgi]

Originally posted by hahnmeister
Yeah, test them side by side in the same sump at the same time... and try to set them to make the same color skimmate... otherwise, the best way to compare actual volumes of skimmate is to condense them to solid.

that is the way i am sure will be the real compare to put both in the same sump and to see how perform better i am sure i am not wrong .... and i will put my BM250 with his BK300 .

the BM300 will be to power full for the BK300

by the way look on "Vegas_ReefMan" BM250 and in the begin he want to return it back....