Why does my water shock me?

[MikePowell]

i have a t4 pump on my tank for a closed loop system. recently when i touch my water i get a mild shock. i know it is from this pump b/c wheni un plugg it the shocking stops. i took the pump off and check the seals and they seem to be fine. is this a common problem with this pump? is there a way to fix this problem? is the electric charge in the water bad?

[blacktone]

stray voltage eh? Perhaps it's time to open it up for some maintance and have a look around, only reason I think you would get a shock is if the water comes in contact with the wires somewhere. I'm guessing this is a external pump, is it leaking at all?

[MikePowell]

it was alittle around the housing, so i took it off and cleanded it up, put it back to gether and worked fine for a while and then BAM got shocked again. is there another way to do a complete maintance on the pumps? i am fairly new to this stuff so i am fairly unfamiliar to external pumps.

thank you for reading, and helping me out.

[sperry]

Not sure how to fix the pump but you should have a ground probe in the tank and a GFI socket.

[Serioussnaps]

likely a pump/powerhead

this happened to me and many others with RIO's back in the day

[HBtank]

Please buy a GFCI everyone!!!!!!!!!

[MikePowell]

What is a grond probe? it this a temp fix or permanete fix?

Originally posted by Serioussnaps
likely a pump/powerhead

this happened to me and many others with RIO's back in the day

i know what pump it is. it is a poseidon t4.

[MikePowell]

what is a gfci? i have my equip plugged in to power strip. i think it might have a gfci.

[HBtank]

Like pictured above, or wall sockets with the red and black buttons.

Almost all power strips just have a fuse in them, this is NOT a GFCI. "surge protector" does not protect you...

Most importantly, you would not have been shocked if it was a GFCI strip.

[MikePowell]

thank you everyone for your time. i will go to the hardware store now and pick up some provisions.

[J. Montgomery]

Stray volatage in the tank is not acceptable. You probably can't fix the pump and should replace it instead.

Everything in your tank should be plugged into a GFCI protected outlet. As I understand it, a GFCI will not prevent you from getting shocked, but it will prevent you from being electrocuted. A grounding probe will trip the GFCI before you do.

So GFCI = essential, but a grounding probe is more a matter of personal preference and your specific tank situation.

[MTB]

Agreed, time for a new pump. GFCIs are as important as anything on the tank. And should not be overlooked.

[LobsterOfJustice]

I have one outlet GFCI and one not. My return pump and heaters are on the regular outlet. You do not want a GFCI tripping while you are out of town and leaving your tank without power.

One time I nocked one of my fans into the frag tank. The combo of grounding probe and GFCI immediately shut of the power to the outlet which the fans were plugged into.

A GFCI will not solve your problem however. Stray voltage can be solved by a grounding probe plugged into a GFCI. However, I still get shocked if my sump runs low on water and my return starts to run dry. Sounds like you need to contact the pump manufacturer and get that solved, or get a new pump.

[davidryder]

A grounding probe in unnecessary as any electrical submersed equipment is already acting a grounding probe. And besides that, without a path to ground, any stray voltage is harmless - and a grounding probe provides just that.

[HBtank]

And a grounding probe will cause the GFCI to trip in a way that does not provide any real benefit to you or your tank. It creates a much greater potential of losing power to your tank while you are away.

My solution is a GFCI for almost every piece of equipment but the main pump and a couple very secure devices that can never come into contact with the water.

Therefore if the GFCI were to trip for an unexplained reason (it can happen), my main pump will keep everything circulating until I notice. This of course puts faith into the main pump not failing and sending electricity into the tank, but definately lowers the hazard to an acceptable level IMO by protecting 90% of the submerged equipment and allowing a failsafe for the tank itself in the case of a accidental GFCI trip.

In the end there is still some slight risk, but I sacrafice it for my tank....

[Jon Evans]

I had the same problem, but the culprit for me was a lighting fixture. I was stupid enough to place it directly on top of an open aquarium, and got a few zaps before I figured it out.

[Roy G. Biv]

Originally posted by MikePowell
what is a gfci? i have my equip plugged in to power strip. i think it might have a gfci.

They are the same ones that are in the bathroom and near the kitchen sink.. However if you do get one, it will not solve the problem. It will only protect you and your livestock by tripping the breaker at the first sign of stray voltage. The safe answer is to buy a new pump. If the voltage stops for a while after dismanteling it then you might be able to find where the leak is and either silicone it or I use a dab of KY jelly on the ring. I dont know if KY is harmful but has never caused me a problem in the past.

[MikePowell]

the problem is, is that my house was built in the late 50'searly 60's and not all the outlets have a grounding wire so if i were to put on a GFCI plug it would be merely useless. so i might have to run a grounding probe from an outlet that does have a grounded wire.

[HBtank]

From what I have read, GFCI does not require the grounding wire.

All it does is sense a difference in amps between the hot lead and neutral lead (caused by electricity escaping to the ground by virtue of your body) and immediately shuts off the outlet if detected. This is independant of the grounding wire and it is not required from all that i have gathered.

The plug in versions (i.e. Shock Buster) will work fine from all I have read, and do not require wiring. Though a socket could be installed as well, I personally used the buster because I am no electrician and chicken.

This is just from all that I have read and hopefully remembered well Hopefull someone will also chime in.

[davidryder]

Originally posted by HBtank
From what I have read, GFCI does not require the grounding wire.

All it does is sense a difference in amps between the hot lead and nuetral lead (caused by electricity escaping to the ground by virtue of your body) and immediately shuts off if detected. This is independant of the grounding wire and is not required.

The plug in versions (i.e. Shock Buster) will work fine from all I have read, and do not require wiring.

I am no electrician though, this is just from all that I have read and hopefully remebered well.

You are right! More specifically:

"RCDs operate by measuring the current balance between two conductors using a differential current transformer, and opening the device's contacts if there is a balance fault (i.e., a difference in current between the phase conductor and the neutral conductor). More generally (single phase, three phase, etc.) RCDs operate by detecting a nonzero sum of currents, i.e. the current in the "live" (phase, hot) conductor plus that in the "neutral" conductor must equal zero (within some small tolerance), otherwise there is a leakage of current to somewhere else (to earth/ground, or to another circuit, etc.). In the United States, the National Electrical Code, requires GFCI devices intended to protect people to interrupt the circuit if the leakage current exceeds a range of 4–6 mA of current (the exact trip setting can be chosen by the manufacturer of the device and is typically 5 mA) within 25 milliseconds. GFCI devices which protect equipment (not people) are allowed to trip as high as 30 mA of current."

From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GFCI

The problem though without a ground a leakage most likely won't be detected as there will only be stray voltage. Without a path to ground it won't affect current.

I don't know how much work you want to do, but running a ground wire would be fairly easy if you don't have a finished basement.

[MikePowell]

i live in miami so no basement. my attic is about 2 foot tall in most places, and my support walls are basically solid concrete plus the wiring is old so wiring would be a problem. any other ideas??

[HBtank]

The GFCI will still protect you no matter what is the biggest point IMO.

If you want your tank grounded is another issue... I personally choose not to and discussed it some in a previous post why I choose not to.

[davidryder]

If you have any copper piping close you could attach a wire to it as they are usually grounded. I don't know how you would find the piping, though...