What's my next step? Reef tank newbie

tewkes · 07/06/2007, 03:22 PM

Hi everyone this is my first post on here!

I just got started in this hobby a few months ago. Right now I have a 50 gallon tank, crushed coral (course) substrate, roughly 60-70lbs of live rock, 2X 36inch corrallife 50/50 96watt fixtures. My tank has been cycling for over 4 weeks now. I have 4 green chromis, 10 dwarf hermits, 5 maragrita snails, 5 turbo snails, 2 nassarius snails, and 2 emerald crabs. Everything is doing well in the tank, and water parameters have been good.

My question is what's the next step? I want to know when I can start adding some corals. Do I need to get more fish and wait for more establishment or are there corals that will still do good in newer tanks. I already have a plan on the fish I want in the system. My list includes percula clown pair, 6 line wrasse, purple firefish, and either a royal gramma or bi-color pseudochromis.

What's a good next fish. The LFS told me clown's were good for the next batch. My wife really likes the 6 line wrasse.

Any info is appreciated greatly.

Bryan

papagimp · 07/06/2007, 03:41 PM

First, before you get too into stocking, I'd remove all that crushed coral....and let the tank settle for a little longer before cramming it full. You have way to much as it is for a 4 week old tank, IMO.

As for fish, all those in your list would be excellent choices, cept the bi color pseudo, but that's more a personal preference on my part. Clowns would be okay but I'd probably ditch the chromis first. 6 line would also be a nice choice. A fuge would really help a 6 line along as well...although all the 6lines i've dealt with have learned to readily except any food I stick in the tank.

Have you looked at the Ocellaris clowns yet? Just a thought for ya, I prefer them over perculas for multiple reasons. Be advised that a firefish has a tendency to jump out of the tanks. You'd be best having some sort of cover for them, but then you run into some new issues with heat and evaporation. My last pair of firefish lasted less than 30 minutes before they ended up on the carpet.

I'd also advice you add more nassarius and cerith snails...less turbo snails (i hate those things) but definatly wait before doing so, let the tank stabalize some prior to adding more livestock.
What are your most recent water test results?

Oh, and of course Welcome to Reef Central!!!

jon99 · 07/06/2007, 03:51 PM

I'd get rid of the chromis. They can be pretty mean little buggers. I'd also look into the pseudochromis, if I remember right they can also be pretty territorial. Next time I'd recommend you not adding ANY livestock (including snails, hermits, etc) until AFTER the tank is cycled. No need to use live critters to cycle it either. Many people use the chromis because they are inexpensive, but IMO its cruel, unnecessary, and can cause problems down the road if they get territorial. Your tank will cycle just fine with some liverock and I've even read of throwing in a small piece of raw seafood (shrimp, clam, etc) to get the bacteria load going. Good luck!!

Sk8r · 07/06/2007, 03:58 PM

A single chromis is no particular problem: I have one with my dartifish, mini-blennies, mini-gobies and mandy, with a clam, no problem. He darts about in the midwater, ignoring everybody.

You can deal with crushed coral substrate, but I'd start on a long program aimed at a total tank redo, down to bare glass, in about a year and a half---about time for problems to start showing up, like calcification and the accumulation of a lot of crud. You can put your specimens in buckets, do a 30% water change and work really fast to totally trade it out: or you could re do it now, and keep your crew in qt until you can get it re-cycled: should take about a week to cycle at least weakly so, if you have all that live rock, which can go straight back in on a new bed of aragonite. SOme people go totally bare bottom. SOme do aragonite. Not many people do cc anymore. It's had real problems. Hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but it's easier to fix now and later.

spinninmidwater · 07/06/2007, 04:21 PM

i agree with Sk8r, from what i read and read, i chose DSB of fine aragonite and started to see the good effect it gives..... keeping nitrate low on its own.... really, do some read on DSB issue, it may change your mind

tewkes · 07/06/2007, 04:45 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by papagimp
[B]First, before you get too into stocking, I'd remove all that crushed coral....and let the tank settle for a little longer before cramming it full. You have way to much as it is for a 4 week old tank, IMO.

The tank has been running for over 2 months, what I meant by cycling was when the first chromis were added. I first put the water in, let it sit for a few days, then added my live rock, let that sit for about 4 weeks then added the chromis.

What do you mean remove all the crushed coral? Why?

I may have my terminology mixed up as far as substrate. Let me figure out exactly what it is and get back.

I don't see any type of aggression in the chromis yet. From what every single LFS told me they were the most peaceful starter fish especially compared to damsels and such.

scarter · 07/06/2007, 09:54 PM

CC traps ditritus, you should be ok for about a year, after that you will most likely need to remove it and replace it with some arag.

tewkes · 07/07/2007, 11:55 AM

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Produc...&N=2004+113554

This is the stuff that I put in. Is this bad? I really wish I had found this site before I went to the LFS and the guy told me to use this stuff. Thanks

Wett Hands · 07/07/2007, 04:32 PM

Quote:

This is the stuff that I put in. Is this bad? I really wish I had found this site before I went to the LFS and the guy told me to use this stuff. Thanks

CC isnt 'bad' per se. It's just that the size and shape of crushed coral allows uneaten food and fish poop to get trapped between and underneath the substrate. Eventually all that trapped stuff will eventually get very nasty and cause problems (about a year from now). You might be able to prevent these problems by using a gravel vac, but I'm not a big fan of that idea.

A better long term substrate is Aragonite

Wett Hands · 07/07/2007, 04:36 PM

Oh yeah...

tewkes

To Reef Central!

rbursek · 07/07/2007, 04:36 PM

My first fish where 5 Blue/Green Reef Chromies and a Rusty Angel, I do not understand why so many of you are againts the Cromies???? I have added Tangs, Basslet, Cardinals, Wrasse, and a few other fish, without a problem.
Bob

kevin2000 · 07/07/2007, 04:50 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by tewkes
[B]

Quote:

Originally posted by papagimp
What do you mean remove all the crushed coral? Why?

CC is a holdover from FW tanks and under-gravel filters .. a bad choice for SW tanks. Tends to hold debris (which creates water quality issues) and will harbor a fraction of the beneficial bacteria.

Sk8r · 07/07/2007, 05:01 PM

Well, it is a mix of cc and aragonite, but I wish they gave the percentage of each. Problem is, see that little shell in the picture? Places like that hold glumps of detritus and it doesn't break down as readily as in finer grade sand, ie, fine aragonite. Unprocessed detritus = ammonia and nitrate present in traceable amounts in the water, and with stony corals a traceable amount is not good. If you were fish-only or softies only you might skin by, but if it were mine, I'd siphon all the water out to a Brute Rubbermaid tub, set all the live rock in there, put the fish in qt, remove all the substrate, lay down some egg crate and add 3 25 lb sacks of aragonite fine or medium [fine will blow about a bit in high flow: medium stays put better, but I like the look of the fine, if it's clean.] WASH the sand in saltwater before adding, stir it up really well and dump the water, which will be a muddy soup.
Then lay down the eggcrate as aforesaid, put down your live rock [or base rock first if you have it, then the live rock] then add your wet sand, and pour the water back in. The whole operation should take two hours if you have the right tubs and buckets and saltwater. Then your cycle should take about a week, maybe a little longer, after which your fish can return to your tank and your tank will not have red algae growth on every single piece of shell in that mix, or high nitrate from decayed food buried so deep the bristleworms can't get it.

07/06/2007, 03:22 PM	#1
tewkes Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Michigan Posts: 334	What's my next step? Reef tank newbie Hi everyone this is my first post on here! I just got started in this hobby a few months ago. Right now I have a 50 gallon tank, crushed coral (course) substrate, roughly 60-70lbs of live rock, 2X 36inch corrallife 50/50 96watt fixtures. My tank has been cycling for over 4 weeks now. I have 4 green chromis, 10 dwarf hermits, 5 maragrita snails, 5 turbo snails, 2 nassarius snails, and 2 emerald crabs. Everything is doing well in the tank, and water parameters have been good. My question is what's the next step? I want to know when I can start adding some corals. Do I need to get more fish and wait for more establishment or are there corals that will still do good in newer tanks. I already have a plan on the fish I want in the system. My list includes percula clown pair, 6 line wrasse, purple firefish, and either a royal gramma or bi-color pseudochromis. What's a good next fish. The LFS told me clown's were good for the next batch. My wife really likes the 6 line wrasse. Any info is appreciated greatly. Bryan

07/06/2007, 03:41 PM	#2
papagimp COMAS Rocks! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Oklahoma City, OK Posts: 8,185 Blog Entries: 2	First, before you get too into stocking, I'd remove all that crushed coral....and let the tank settle for a little longer before cramming it full. You have way to much as it is for a 4 week old tank, IMO. As for fish, all those in your list would be excellent choices, cept the bi color pseudo, but that's more a personal preference on my part. Clowns would be okay but I'd probably ditch the chromis first. 6 line would also be a nice choice. A fuge would really help a 6 line along as well...although all the 6lines i've dealt with have learned to readily except any food I stick in the tank. Have you looked at the Ocellaris clowns yet? Just a thought for ya, I prefer them over perculas for multiple reasons. Be advised that a firefish has a tendency to jump out of the tanks. You'd be best having some sort of cover for them, but then you run into some new issues with heat and evaporation. My last pair of firefish lasted less than 30 minutes before they ended up on the carpet. I'd also advice you add more nassarius and cerith snails...less turbo snails (i hate those things) but definatly wait before doing so, let the tank stabalize some prior to adding more livestock. What are your most recent water test results? Oh, and of course Welcome to Reef Central!!! __________________ 58g Softie & 75g Stoney Member, Central Oklahoma Marine Aquarium Society Current Tank Info: 58g Mixed Reef Project - Started June 2011

07/06/2007, 03:51 PM	#3
jon99 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atl Ga Posts: 817	I'd get rid of the chromis. They can be pretty mean little buggers. I'd also look into the pseudochromis, if I remember right they can also be pretty territorial. Next time I'd recommend you not adding ANY livestock (including snails, hermits, etc) until AFTER the tank is cycled. No need to use live critters to cycle it either. Many people use the chromis because they are inexpensive, but IMO its cruel, unnecessary, and can cause problems down the road if they get territorial. Your tank will cycle just fine with some liverock and I've even read of throwing in a small piece of raw seafood (shrimp, clam, etc) to get the bacteria load going. Good luck!! __________________ Current tank: 210 gallon mixed reef 2x250w radium, 1x400w radium, 2x vortech mp40, 2 seaswirls. 40 gallon frag tank 250w radium, vortech mp10, seaswirl. 55 gallon sump w/ remote DSB, turf scrubber, SR Current Tank Info: 210 in the works

07/06/2007, 03:58 PM	#4
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	A single chromis is no particular problem: I have one with my dartifish, mini-blennies, mini-gobies and mandy, with a clam, no problem. He darts about in the midwater, ignoring everybody. You can deal with crushed coral substrate, but I'd start on a long program aimed at a total tank redo, down to bare glass, in about a year and a half---about time for problems to start showing up, like calcification and the accumulation of a lot of crud. You can put your specimens in buckets, do a 30% water change and work really fast to totally trade it out: or you could re do it now, and keep your crew in qt until you can get it re-cycled: should take about a week to cycle at least weakly so, if you have all that live rock, which can go straight back in on a new bed of aragonite. SOme people go totally bare bottom. SOme do aragonite. Not many people do cc anymore. It's had real problems. Hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but it's easier to fix now and later. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

07/06/2007, 09:54 PM	#7
scarter Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Baltimore Posts: 605	CC traps ditritus, you should be ok for about a year, after that you will most likely need to remove it and replace it with some arag. __________________ My name is Shane and I am a reefaholic, I have a disease and they don't know what to call it. Current Tank Info: what tank?

07/06/2007, 04:21 PM	#5
spinninmidwater Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 138	i agree with Sk8r, from what i read and read, i chose DSB of fine aragonite and started to see the good effect it gives..... keeping nitrate low on its own.... really, do some read on DSB issue, it may change your mind

07/06/2007, 04:45 PM	#6
tewkes Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Michigan Posts: 334	[QUOTE]Originally posted by papagimp [B]First, before you get too into stocking, I'd remove all that crushed coral....and let the tank settle for a little longer before cramming it full. You have way to much as it is for a 4 week old tank, IMO. The tank has been running for over 2 months, what I meant by cycling was when the first chromis were added. I first put the water in, let it sit for a few days, then added my live rock, let that sit for about 4 weeks then added the chromis. What do you mean remove all the crushed coral? Why? I may have my terminology mixed up as far as substrate. Let me figure out exactly what it is and get back. I don't see any type of aggression in the chromis yet. From what every single LFS told me they were the most peaceful starter fish especially compared to damsels and such.

07/07/2007, 11:55 AM	#8
tewkes Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Michigan Posts: 334	http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Produc...&N=2004+113554 This is the stuff that I put in. Is this bad? I really wish I had found this site before I went to the LFS and the guy told me to use this stuff. Thanks

07/07/2007, 04:36 PM	#10
Wett Hands Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: WNY Posts: 297	Oh yeah... tewkes To Reef Central! __________________ "But since your going the other way. I'm afraid, you're going have to get scared... immediately. Current Tank Info: One 10gal, Two 20H FW Planted tanks, 27gal hex BW, 75gal Reef, 3gal Pico Tank

07/07/2007, 04:36 PM	#11
rbursek Moved On Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: germantown,wi Posts: 2,339	My first fish where 5 Blue/Green Reef Chromies and a Rusty Angel, I do not understand why so many of you are againts the Cromies???? I have added Tangs, Basslet, Cardinals, Wrasse, and a few other fish, without a problem. Bob

07/07/2007, 05:01 PM	#13
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Well, it is a mix of cc and aragonite, but I wish they gave the percentage of each. Problem is, see that little shell in the picture? Places like that hold glumps of detritus and it doesn't break down as readily as in finer grade sand, ie, fine aragonite. Unprocessed detritus = ammonia and nitrate present in traceable amounts in the water, and with stony corals a traceable amount is not good. If you were fish-only or softies only you might skin by, but if it were mine, I'd siphon all the water out to a Brute Rubbermaid tub, set all the live rock in there, put the fish in qt, remove all the substrate, lay down some egg crate and add 3 25 lb sacks of aragonite fine or medium [fine will blow about a bit in high flow: medium stays put better, but I like the look of the fine, if it's clean.] WASH the sand in saltwater before adding, stir it up really well and dump the water, which will be a muddy soup. Then lay down the eggcrate as aforesaid, put down your live rock [or base rock first if you have it, then the live rock] then add your wet sand, and pour the water back in. The whole operation should take two hours if you have the right tubs and buckets and saltwater. Then your cycle should take about a week, maybe a little longer, after which your fish can return to your tank and your tank will not have red algae growth on every single piece of shell in that mix, or high nitrate from decayed food buried so deep the bristleworms can't get it. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.