freeze-dried food

TheMaik · 07/10/2007, 03:18 PM

Have anybody tried giving freezed-dried food (shrimps etc) to their seahorses?
Understand this is can't function as a long term diet, but could it do a 3 week period each year (vacation), in combination with weekly frozen food?
(The person watching the house and aquarium will visit once a week)

Mike

JennyL · 07/11/2007, 02:46 PM

Mike,
No seahorse can survive in the situation you describe. They will not eat the freeze dried foods and they need to be fed a minimum of once a day, preferably twice a day.

You would need someone to come in everyday to feed them the proper food and check to make sure everything is ok in their tank plus the normal tank maintenance and cleaning that is required on their tank, checking water perams,top offs,etc,etc.

TheMaik · 07/11/2007, 11:44 PM

Thanks for your reply Janet,

Found this article, and if I understand it correct, 95% of the seahoreses survived 30 days on mysids pellets, alltough they lost weight. :
Nitrogen budgets for juvenile big-bellied seahorse Hippocampus abdominalis fed Artemia, mysids or pelleted feeds

Z. Wilsona, C.G. Carter, a, and G.J. Pursera
aSchool of Aquaculture, Tasmania Aquaculture and Fisheries Institute, University of Tasmania, Locked Bag 1370, Launceston, Tasmania 7250, Australia
Received 2 September 2005; revised 5 December 2005; accepted 6 December 2005. Available online 23 January 2006.

This study aimed to compare nitrogen budgets for juvenile (1.17 Â± 0.07 g, mean Â± S.D.) big-bellied seahorses fed live, frozen and pelleted feeds and to examine the potential of non-destructive measurements of excretion to predict feed performance. Three feeds were tested against live Artemia: frozen mysid shrimp species (Paramesopodopsis rufa, Tasmanomysis oculata,Tenagomysis sp.), a pellet prepared from the mysid shrimps and a commercial crumbled feed. Nitrogen budgets were constructed from nitrogen retention measured over a 30 day growth experiment, ammonia and urea excretion measured over 24 h on days 15 and 30, and nitrogen digestibility. After 30 days seahorses fed Artemia and frozen mysid had significantly (P < 0.001) higher final weights and growth than the other two feeds. Although seahorses successfully weaned onto the commercial feed, the final weight was not significantly different from their initial weight. Seahorses fed the mysid pellet were not successfully weaned and lost weight. Feed conversion ratio was significantly (P < 0.001) affected by feed and seahorses fed Artemia and frozen mysid had the most efficient conversion of feed to growth. Despite the poor growth performance of seahorses fed the mysid and commercial pellets survival over 30 days was above 95% and there was no significant difference between treatments. Ammonia excretion was significantly affected by feed on day 15 (P < 0.05) and day 30 (P < 0.001), excretion was higher for Artemia than for mysid pellets on both days. Urea excretion was significantly (P < 0.05) affected by feed only on day 30 and was higher for Artemia and frozen mysids. Nitrogen retention was above 45% on Artemia and frozen mysid treatments. An indirect method of assessing nitrogen retention was an accurate technique where seahorses were growing but not where growth was near or below maintenance.

Keywords: Excretion; Larval pelleted feed; Live feed

ann83 · 07/12/2007, 12:25 AM

First, do you realize how small the seahorses in that study were? At most they were small 6 month olds. 1 gram is equal to the mass of a pen cap. 1.7 grams is equal to the mass of a 1/3 tsp of salt. An 11 cm (4 in) juvenille abdominalis can weigh more than 7 grams. A full grown adult can be more than 3 times that length and more than 6 times that weight (about 24 times the stated 1.7g in the study). Even if you didn't notice this, you should have noticed that they were accepting baby brine shrimp (artemia) as food, which makes the SH very small. Small SH can eat different things than large SH and survive, not to mention, they have a lot less weight to lose so the weight loss percentages are skewed. Finally, survival on pellets over 30 days was above 95% of what? Of all the seahorses fed the pellets? Of all the seahorses that survived (my guess)? Again, that would be skewed depending on their success with raising seahorse fry on the other foods as well.
Any chance you can post a link to the article? I would like to read it. I also wonder if they are only counting the seahorses that were successfully converted to those feeds. They did say that they weren't successful weaning seahorses onto the pellet (what do they mean by weaning exactly... were they fed something else too?). I am confident that the seahorses that never took to the foods fed to them, did not survive. The seahorse digestive system will shut down after 4 days without food. While they can survive beyond those 4 days (while they are starving to death), it takes intensive effort to even attempt to revive their digestive system and give them a chance for survival. This revival of the digestive system is not likely with seahorse fry, by the way.
While I have heard of seahorses taking to prepared foods, it has always been secondhand, and I don't know of anyone who has seahorses who eat prepared foods. Many seahorses won't even recognize brine shrimp (live or frozen) as food, so it is a big leap to get them to recognize something that doesn't even resemble live food. I definately wouldn't count on weaning your seahorses to any sort of dry food, and if you pulled it off, you would be considered a rarity. So, it is not something that you can plan for when you buy your SH. Why can't you get a sitter to come by and feed your seahorses daily?

TheMaik · 07/12/2007, 04:34 AM

Ok, thanks, I understand. (Should have seen how small these where).

I might be able to have someone look in on the tank every day when we are away, but I'm not sure if I can depend on that every time. This might be a showstopper for my seahorse dream

The link to the article:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...fe675ff003931f

or just google "Nitrogen budgets for juvenile"

ann83 · 07/12/2007, 10:41 AM

It is possible to get large amounts of live shrimp, and have a sitter come over every other day to feed out live shrimp, but before you decide on this option, look into just how much that will cost. For a small pair of SH, you are looking at about 200 small shrimp every 3 days, for larger SH, it could be up to 400 every 3 days. For three weeks, thats anywhere from 1400 - 2800 live shrimp.

TheMaik · 07/13/2007, 01:22 PM

Not sure if live shrimp is available here in Norway.
And it's not possible to breed these yourself?

Mike

Reefbox · 07/14/2007, 11:02 AM

TheMaik,

I'm setting up my first seahorse tank now. My biggest concern and probably the most demanding part of raising seahorses is the fact that they need to eat 2-3 times everyday (no food that you can put in an automatic feeder either)and that sorta put a big burden on trying these guys because you either have to feed them everyday or have somebody else do it.

But, this guy on another forum has said that he raised a seahorses from fry to adult and never feed it, he has a big refugium loaded with pods and the seahorse doesnt even recognize mysid shrimp as food. It is smaller than his feed ones but it is healthy and breeding.

ann83 · 07/14/2007, 11:49 AM

Could you post a link to this thread? I'd like to read it. It is possible, but he would have to have a very large tank that is very lightly stocked.

Reefbox · 07/14/2007, 12:24 PM

Seahorse eating only pods

ann83 · 07/14/2007, 12:58 PM

Thought you might be talking about fredfish. Have you see pics of his display tank? Its not so much a display as it is a refugium, with another refugium attached. Like I said, you can do it with a large, heavily planted tank, that is lightly stocked. Which is what he has. Check out his gallery. Also, I'm pretty sure he isn't trying to tell you that you can count on your tank to sustain a large enough pod population for your SH, or count on your SH to live off of copepods alone. It can work, but its a gamble, and something to try after you have a solid system in place, not something to plan on from the start. From what I remember, he was suprised to find the juvenille in his tank still alive and kicking.

Also, this is a tank lifestyle, not a vacation feeding plan.

07/10/2007, 03:18 PM	#1
TheMaik Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Norway Posts: 5	freeze-dried food Have anybody tried giving freezed-dried food (shrimps etc) to their seahorses? Understand this is can't function as a long term diet, but could it do a 3 week period each year (vacation), in combination with weekly frozen food? (The person watching the house and aquarium will visit once a week) Mike

07/11/2007, 02:46 PM	#2
JennyL Registered Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 406	Mike, No seahorse can survive in the situation you describe. They will not eat the freeze dried foods and they need to be fed a minimum of once a day, preferably twice a day. You would need someone to come in everyday to feed them the proper food and check to make sure everything is ok in their tank plus the normal tank maintenance and cleaning that is required on their tank, checking water perams,top offs,etc,etc. __________________ Janet Current Tank Info: 125 & 70 g Reefs- 9 Seahorse tanks

07/12/2007, 12:25 AM	#4
ann83 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: MO Posts: 937	First, do you realize how small the seahorses in that study were? At most they were small 6 month olds. 1 gram is equal to the mass of a pen cap. 1.7 grams is equal to the mass of a 1/3 tsp of salt. An 11 cm (4 in) juvenille abdominalis can weigh more than 7 grams. A full grown adult can be more than 3 times that length and more than 6 times that weight (about 24 times the stated 1.7g in the study). Even if you didn't notice this, you should have noticed that they were accepting baby brine shrimp (artemia) as food, which makes the SH very small. Small SH can eat different things than large SH and survive, not to mention, they have a lot less weight to lose so the weight loss percentages are skewed. Finally, survival on pellets over 30 days was above 95% of what? Of all the seahorses fed the pellets? Of all the seahorses that survived (my guess)? Again, that would be skewed depending on their success with raising seahorse fry on the other foods as well. Any chance you can post a link to the article? I would like to read it. I also wonder if they are only counting the seahorses that were successfully converted to those feeds. They did say that they weren't successful weaning seahorses onto the pellet (what do they mean by weaning exactly... were they fed something else too?). I am confident that the seahorses that never took to the foods fed to them, did not survive. The seahorse digestive system will shut down after 4 days without food. While they can survive beyond those 4 days (while they are starving to death), it takes intensive effort to even attempt to revive their digestive system and give them a chance for survival. This revival of the digestive system is not likely with seahorse fry, by the way. While I have heard of seahorses taking to prepared foods, it has always been secondhand, and I don't know of anyone who has seahorses who eat prepared foods. Many seahorses won't even recognize brine shrimp (live or frozen) as food, so it is a big leap to get them to recognize something that doesn't even resemble live food. I definately wouldn't count on weaning your seahorses to any sort of dry food, and if you pulled it off, you would be considered a rarity. So, it is not something that you can plan for when you buy your SH. Why can't you get a sitter to come by and feed your seahorses daily? Last edited by ann83; 07/12/2007 at 12:37 AM.

07/11/2007, 11:44 PM	#3
TheMaik Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Norway Posts: 5	Thanks for your reply Janet, Found this article, and if I understand it correct, 95% of the seahoreses survived 30 days on mysids pellets, alltough they lost weight. : Nitrogen budgets for juvenile big-bellied seahorse Hippocampus abdominalis fed Artemia, mysids or pelleted feeds Z. Wilsona, C.G. Carter, a, and G.J. Pursera aSchool of Aquaculture, Tasmania Aquaculture and Fisheries Institute, University of Tasmania, Locked Bag 1370, Launceston, Tasmania 7250, Australia Received 2 September 2005; revised 5 December 2005; accepted 6 December 2005. Available online 23 January 2006. This study aimed to compare nitrogen budgets for juvenile (1.17 Â± 0.07 g, mean Â± S.D.) big-bellied seahorses fed live, frozen and pelleted feeds and to examine the potential of non-destructive measurements of excretion to predict feed performance. Three feeds were tested against live Artemia: frozen mysid shrimp species (Paramesopodopsis rufa, Tasmanomysis oculata,Tenagomysis sp.), a pellet prepared from the mysid shrimps and a commercial crumbled feed. Nitrogen budgets were constructed from nitrogen retention measured over a 30 day growth experiment, ammonia and urea excretion measured over 24 h on days 15 and 30, and nitrogen digestibility. After 30 days seahorses fed Artemia and frozen mysid had significantly (P < 0.001) higher final weights and growth than the other two feeds. Although seahorses successfully weaned onto the commercial feed, the final weight was not significantly different from their initial weight. Seahorses fed the mysid pellet were not successfully weaned and lost weight. Feed conversion ratio was significantly (P < 0.001) affected by feed and seahorses fed Artemia and frozen mysid had the most efficient conversion of feed to growth. Despite the poor growth performance of seahorses fed the mysid and commercial pellets survival over 30 days was above 95% and there was no significant difference between treatments. Ammonia excretion was significantly affected by feed on day 15 (P < 0.05) and day 30 (P < 0.001), excretion was higher for Artemia than for mysid pellets on both days. Urea excretion was significantly (P < 0.05) affected by feed only on day 30 and was higher for Artemia and frozen mysids. Nitrogen retention was above 45% on Artemia and frozen mysid treatments. An indirect method of assessing nitrogen retention was an accurate technique where seahorses were growing but not where growth was near or below maintenance. Keywords: Excretion; Larval pelleted feed; Live feed

07/12/2007, 04:34 AM	#5
TheMaik Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Norway Posts: 5	Ok, thanks, I understand. (Should have seen how small these where). I might be able to have someone look in on the tank every day when we are away, but I'm not sure if I can depend on that every time. This might be a showstopper for my seahorse dream The link to the article: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...fe675ff003931f or just google "Nitrogen budgets for juvenile"

07/12/2007, 10:41 AM	#6
ann83 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: MO Posts: 937	It is possible to get large amounts of live shrimp, and have a sitter come over every other day to feed out live shrimp, but before you decide on this option, look into just how much that will cost. For a small pair of SH, you are looking at about 200 small shrimp every 3 days, for larger SH, it could be up to 400 every 3 days. For three weeks, thats anywhere from 1400 - 2800 live shrimp.

07/13/2007, 01:22 PM	#7
TheMaik Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Norway Posts: 5	Not sure if live shrimp is available here in Norway. And it's not possible to breed these yourself? Mike

07/14/2007, 11:02 AM	#8
Reefbox Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Butler, PA Posts: 1,045	TheMaik, I'm setting up my first seahorse tank now. My biggest concern and probably the most demanding part of raising seahorses is the fact that they need to eat 2-3 times everyday (no food that you can put in an automatic feeder either)and that sorta put a big burden on trying these guys because you either have to feed them everyday or have somebody else do it. But, this guy on another forum has said that he raised a seahorses from fry to adult and never feed it, he has a big refugium loaded with pods and the seahorse doesnt even recognize mysid shrimp as food. It is smaller than his feed ones but it is healthy and breeding.

07/14/2007, 11:49 AM	#9
ann83 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: MO Posts: 937	Could you post a link to this thread? I'd like to read it. It is possible, but he would have to have a very large tank that is very lightly stocked.

07/14/2007, 12:24 PM	#10
Reefbox Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Butler, PA Posts: 1,045	Seahorse eating only pods

07/14/2007, 12:58 PM	#11
ann83 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: MO Posts: 937	Thought you might be talking about fredfish. Have you see pics of his display tank? Its not so much a display as it is a refugium, with another refugium attached. Like I said, you can do it with a large, heavily planted tank, that is lightly stocked. Which is what he has. Check out his gallery. Also, I'm pretty sure he isn't trying to tell you that you can count on your tank to sustain a large enough pod population for your SH, or count on your SH to live off of copepods alone. It can work, but its a gamble, and something to try after you have a solid system in place, not something to plan on from the start. From what I remember, he was suprised to find the juvenille in his tank still alive and kicking. Also, this is a tank lifestyle, not a vacation feeding plan.