just starting out...some questions

jasonh · 07/27/2007, 10:52 PM

Hi everybody.

I'll start out by apologizing for the long post to come

I've been wanting a reef tank for quite a few years (if you can't tell from my join date), and my wife and I are finally getting ready to take the plunge. We live on the 4th floor of our apartment building, but the floors and walls are concrete, so going with our planned setup should be safe.

We originally were planning on an Oceanic 58RR a while ago. We found the stand at an LFS, so we got it, and planned on getting the tank sooner than later. Somehow that never happened

So anyway, I got a used 65g Oceanic plus a light from a local this week (for about $200 cheaper than the 58RR would be). Here's what we have so far:

65g Oceanic (not drilled)
Stand
2x96w Coralife Aqualight (got with the tank)
20g Long planned for use as sump

On to the questions...

I'd like to drill this tank for the overflow and a CL. I won't be drilling the bottom because it's tempered, so I'll do the back. I was thinking 4x display turnover to the sump would be good, so around 250-260gph. What size bulkheads would I want for the drain and return for this? Does this turnover rate sound appropriate?

I would also like to drill the drain for the CL and have the returns over the top. I'm not sure yet how much flow I'd like, or what type of pump to get. I am thinking a SCWD would be good in the CL, which is 3/4", so I'm assuming 3/4 plumbing for the while CL should be ok. How much flow should I shoot for? I won't be keeping SPS for quite some time, just softies and some LPS.

I am sure I'll need more lighting to keep more than just some basic things, but these lights will get me by for now. Eventually I'd like to go with a MH/PC combo...nothing too powerful though, as I don't want a chiller.

Now for the water side of things...As I said, we are in an apartment. A very small apartment...700sq ft to be exact. This means it would be awfully difficult to have an RO system filling up a trashcan for 24 hours (figure on 80gal of water volume...like 50-70gpd from an RO). Plus, we do have a limited budget. I know tap water is a big nono, but what about using those single-stage water filters? We have 1 under our sink for our drinking water right now that will do about 1gpm. I could add a second after that just for the tank water that would do about 0.6gpm and, according to the sheet, filters out something like 99% of most things. This would allow me to basically fill the entire system in a couple hours...much better for such a limited space. I know it's not ideal, but it's way better than tap water. Would this be a viable idea? Something about filling 16 5gal jugs at the grocery store (from filters that are most likely not maintained well) just doesn't sound appealing...

Anyway, sorry for such a lengthy post. I'm hoping you guys can help on a couple or all my questions. I think that's about it for now

Thanks in advance.

Jason

jer77 · 07/27/2007, 11:38 PM

For your sump flow I'd recommend 3-5X your tank volume or the same flow rate as your skimmer's pump flow rate. This is probably around 350gph on the high end. A 1'' drain size will be fine, and a 3/4'' return pipe size should be fine too. If you want you can go bigger. A bigger drain is just a precaution against snails and other things clogging it up. A bigger return will allow or less head pressure which means you can get a smaller pump.

For the CL I wouldn't recommend a SCWD because they can restrict a lot of flow. I your plumbing it over the top you may want to look into the wavy seas or other wavemakers. For the pipe size I like 1'' IMO for the inlet and 3/4'' for the return. It all really depends on how much flow you want and what pump you choose. I'd go for something around 1200gph so you get around 20X flow.

I don't know much about RO/DI, all I know is that it really is better to have one and not skimp on it.

SunDevil95 · 07/28/2007, 02:18 AM

Hi Jason!,

I think I'm at the exact same place in starting up my tank. At least we have the exact same questions! I think I'm going to tag onto your thread here to hear what everyone has to say. I was in the hobby for 3 years about 2 years ago, but I only had a 20g tank (large nano sized before nanos came out). Now with this 63g I'm a newbie, learning about how the big boys do it as far as filtration and things go. I know the concept of everything, but I don't know it, so please listen to other people's advice that have more experience with larger tanks. I'm not sure how experienced you are, so please know I'm not trying to insult your intelligence if I state things you already know. I've been on here for 2 weeks, and I've just been reading almost non-stop.. and I'm still getting the 'lingo'.

As far as water goes, IMHO (in my humble opinion) I do not think you should use your water filter unless it is a last resort. As the LFS (local fish store) employee asked, (when I asked the EXACT same question last week) "Are you going to trust the $600 that you put into the LR / LS / and fish for $10 worth of water?" It put it into perspective, because I don't want to re-start 6 months down the line. Putting a hierarchy on this... I'd trust the grocery store more than the brita filter though, or better yet a water store where there's more of a regular flow and they do tests more frequently. He was estimating that to fill your sump and tank- that 16 jugs (5g each) would be your best option (that's what I've estimated mine). I'm going to (ahem) borrow my neighbor's 5g jugs from their work (I'll rinse them and return them when I'm done... they are aware and have been bringing one home every other day). To start the tank off, I was going to buy 1/2 of the pre-mixed salt water from the LFS (32nd St & Cactus), and I was going to fill the other 1/2 with RO/DI (reverse osmosis/de ionized) (sold there too) water that I mix myself. The reason for that is because they mentioned that sometimes the pre-mix water is sometimes a little low in pH and some things (nothing bad, just not 'perfect'... and not to mention it costs a little more). I was recommended to do it this way. Anyway, I hope you have an elevator!

I'm not sure how much LR (Live Rock) that you're starting out with. I have nothing against supporting the LFS, but as I too am on a budget, I had to be creative. I know that I will be buying a lot from them later anyway. I was looking all over for the best prices. I would say that the best prices are about $3/lb for uncured LR, but the average is about $4. I couldn't do it if I had to get double, and I was told not to start unless I had at LEAST 1lb LR/gallon of water. I was here on RC and found someone in the valley who was getting out of the hobby. I got mine REALLY cheap. You may want to join the ARIZONA- FRAG (Fish Reef Aquarium Group) here on Reef Central. Then locally you can see what's out there. There is someone there who has 'cured' rock for sale almost constantly however I heard that you want to cure it for a few more weeks just to make sure. He sells it for $3-$7(I think). Remember, you should wait at least 4 weeks to make sure the LR is cured so that there is no amonia (then algae) spikes. My rock has been in 2 rubbermaid tubs curing for the past week, though the rock is most definitely cured as it came from a well established tank.

Anyway, I know all about trying to do this on the cheap! I'm studying a lot. Hope you join the Arizona FRAG. Feel free to PM (private message) me. I'll look up that guy with LR and I'll tell him to PM you.

jasonh · 07/28/2007, 12:38 PM

SunDevil95,

I actually have spent a bit of time browsing in the FRAG forum...I actually found my tank and light on there

I haven't seen many live rock threads recently though. But I'm keeping my eyes peeled.

I'm really not 100% what I'm going to do for LR yet anyway. At first I was going to get all LR, then I thought of getting mostly base rock, and some live. Now recently I've been thinking about doing the DIY rock and seeding with a little live. I haven't found LR at a decent price anywhere here yet. I've been to both Pets Inc and Oceans Floor, and it's all a little expensive. ($8/lb for uncured) Even base rock is expensive at Oceans Floor at $3.50/lb for tiny pieces. I was going to go check out Aquatouch and Fins and Friends today to see the prices.

As for the water, I'm not sure what to do. As I said, our apartment is pretty small, and having an RO unit filling a trash can for quite some time really wouldn't be the most ideal situation....neither would filling 16 5gal jugs, lol. I just figured, using those inline water filters (the ones that go under your sink) would be quite a bit better than using tap.

jer77,

How much does the SCWD restrict the flow? I really don't need some ungodly amount of water flow. Not to mention, I looked up that wavy seas thing, and while cool, it was such a pain to even find somewhere with the price on it, I don't think I'll be going that route. Something like an OM unit would be a little out of my price range I think...

I think I will just do 3 1" bulkheads, that way I only have to buy 1 drill bit and it would simplify things a little

kuoka · 07/28/2007, 12:51 PM

I wouldn't use filtered tap water. But if you do, at least find out what the inline filter removes. Report your results on here (maybe another thread) and get other's opinions on the water quality alone. My $.02 worth. Good luck.

Scuba_Steve · 07/28/2007, 02:26 PM

why do you need it to fill a trash can? For your initial fill, use a smaller container, mix with salt, the put it into the tank. Repeat. For topoff, 5-20g at a time is plenty. Its not like you will have to run to the store every time your 5g jugs gets close to empty. I used 2 5g jugs when I had my ~55g setup, and I was getting refills less than once a week.

jc1of2 · 07/28/2007, 02:51 PM

As for flow I just switched from a 1270gph down to a 400 gph. I figure as long as you have supplemental flow from powerheads you would do fine. The larger the pump the hotter it runs.

jasonh · 07/28/2007, 04:13 PM

Here is the info on the filter I was considering using:

Filter Part Number: FXULC (rev. 2)
Filter Type: Carbon Block
Filter Size: 9.75 inches x 2.5 inches
Micron Rating: 0.5 - 1.0 microns
Filter Life: 600 gallons or 6 months - whichever comes first
Removes: 98.00% of Lead
90.00% of Mercury
99.00% of Asbestos
99.99% of Cysts
89.00% of Atrazine
92.00% of Lindane
97.00% of Chlorine
99.00% of Turbidity

or..
Filter Part Number: FXUVC
Filter Life: 750 gallons or 6 months - whichever comes first
Removes: 99.00% of Lead
96.00% of Mercury
99.00% of Asbestos
99.99% of Cysts
99.00% of VOCs
96.00% of MTBE
97.00% of Chlorine
99.00% of Turbidity

Anyway, I still haven't made up my mind. And it is a good point on the need for a trash can. I had always just figured a trash can would be an ideal container, since I'll have close to 80gal of system volume. I figure if I need to do a 30% water change or something, I'd need close to a 30gal container. But a smaller container would likely be ok now that I think about it.

Also, my wife and I were just talking, and it may actually be easier to put an RO under our bathroom sink because there is more room underneath, and there is a decent spot for a ~20gal Rubbermaid container to hide out of the way.

jc1of2,

I'd prefer to not have any extra powerheads in the display, which is why I'd like to have my flow needs figured out first

kuoka · 07/28/2007, 04:49 PM

Go with the RO or RO/DI unit under the bathroom sink then.

Scuba_Steve · 07/28/2007, 07:24 PM

This is a mistake alot of newbies make. And 95% of them regret in in the near future. Trust me, Find a way for an ro/di, and start off the right way the first time.

jasonh · 07/29/2007, 05:14 PM

OK, I guess I have another question. I got to thinking about how I want to build my overflow...I was at HD last night, and they have pieces of glass that are 4" x 36" I figured this would be perfect. Grab 2 pieces, cut them to size, and silicone them into the corner. Only 1 cut per piece would be nice, to keep from having wonky cuts (I made an 8" cube a while back...it's tough to keep the cutter straight)

My only concern is...will a 4" x 4" corner overflow be big enough to fit a standpipe in? I'll be drilling a hole into the back of the tank, and put on a 90, and then have a Durso.

I might actually even get 3 pieces and do the overflow in the center, I haven't decided yet.

Scuba_Steve · 07/29/2007, 11:52 PM

Look up a gurgle buster. They fit nicely in a tight space. but depending on pipe size, a durso should fit as well.

SunDevil95 · 07/30/2007, 12:09 AM

jasonh, PM paljets (Paul) and ask him what he has for liverock. I think his prices is between $3-$9 for semi-cured LR ranging from baserock to premium rock. He lives in Ahwatukee.

SunDevil95 · 07/31/2007, 08:24 PM

jasonh, Newhere has a thread on the Arizona FRAG and is tearing down his tank. He is selling his LR for I think $3/lb and has 60 lbs. You may want to PM him.

jasonh · 07/31/2007, 09:19 PM

yeah, I saw that. Unfortunately I'm nowhere near ready for LR yet. Maybe this weekend I'll see about grabbing a small bucket of salt and a Rubbermaid bin, and see if I can find a new impeller for my powerhead...but I don't think I'll have the finances to get some LR or anything till 2 weeks from now.

Plus, I've still gotta decide on where to drill the holes, order the bit, drill the holes, build the overflow, put baffles in the 20L to make it a sump (figure out where to put the baffles), get a return pump, do the plumbing, find a glass top, lug a lot of water from the LFS, yadda yadda yadda. Sheesh, this is turning out to be one heck of an undertaking

SunDevil95 · 07/31/2007, 11:59 PM

I understand the budget part, but perhaps he may work with you? I just wouldn't go and pay LFS prices for LR when there's plenty if you're patient. I've just done a 3 week (of 4 predicted weeks) water change on my LR, so in a week more things should be ready. This should coincide with everything being built more or less. I can practically start as soon as the 'dust settles' literally (but I'm going to give it a week before I dare put anything in it). I'm still building my stand (hopefully done this weekend), and this weekend I'll be drilling and plumbing the 63g acrylic.

You may want to put a thread on AZFrag. I know I've seen people lend their things like drill bits (then you won't have to order and buy one).

I'm not sure if acrylic baffles work on a glass tank, but I just went to Desert Star Plastics and they have very reasonable prices for acrylic. I was planning a 20g or 29g (or perhaps a 30g) for a sump too, but I'm nowhere near putting that together (next week) right now.

I'm thinking about going to the upcoming FRAG meetings. Just to see how it works and to see if anyone has things for sale. I'll keep my ears peeled for an overflow or something if it happens to come up. Anyway, I hope it helps. Good luck!

07/27/2007, 10:52 PM	#1
jasonh Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 1,365	just starting out...some questions Hi everybody. I'll start out by apologizing for the long post to come I've been wanting a reef tank for quite a few years (if you can't tell from my join date), and my wife and I are finally getting ready to take the plunge. We live on the 4th floor of our apartment building, but the floors and walls are concrete, so going with our planned setup should be safe. We originally were planning on an Oceanic 58RR a while ago. We found the stand at an LFS, so we got it, and planned on getting the tank sooner than later. Somehow that never happened So anyway, I got a used 65g Oceanic plus a light from a local this week (for about $200 cheaper than the 58RR would be). Here's what we have so far: 65g Oceanic (not drilled) Stand 2x96w Coralife Aqualight (got with the tank) 20g Long planned for use as sump On to the questions... I'd like to drill this tank for the overflow and a CL. I won't be drilling the bottom because it's tempered, so I'll do the back. I was thinking 4x display turnover to the sump would be good, so around 250-260gph. What size bulkheads would I want for the drain and return for this? Does this turnover rate sound appropriate? I would also like to drill the drain for the CL and have the returns over the top. I'm not sure yet how much flow I'd like, or what type of pump to get. I am thinking a SCWD would be good in the CL, which is 3/4", so I'm assuming 3/4 plumbing for the while CL should be ok. How much flow should I shoot for? I won't be keeping SPS for quite some time, just softies and some LPS. I am sure I'll need more lighting to keep more than just some basic things, but these lights will get me by for now. Eventually I'd like to go with a MH/PC combo...nothing too powerful though, as I don't want a chiller. Now for the water side of things...As I said, we are in an apartment. A very small apartment...700sq ft to be exact. This means it would be awfully difficult to have an RO system filling up a trashcan for 24 hours (figure on 80gal of water volume...like 50-70gpd from an RO). Plus, we do have a limited budget. I know tap water is a big nono, but what about using those single-stage water filters? We have 1 under our sink for our drinking water right now that will do about 1gpm. I could add a second after that just for the tank water that would do about 0.6gpm and, according to the sheet, filters out something like 99% of most things. This would allow me to basically fill the entire system in a couple hours...much better for such a limited space. I know it's not ideal, but it's way better than tap water. Would this be a viable idea? Something about filling 16 5gal jugs at the grocery store (from filters that are most likely not maintained well) just doesn't sound appealing... Anyway, sorry for such a lengthy post. I'm hoping you guys can help on a couple or all my questions. I think that's about it for now Thanks in advance. Jason __________________ Jason http://www.jasonhight.net Current Tank Info: Nothing right now. When I stop being poor, I'll set up another.

07/27/2007, 11:38 PM	#2
jer77 Phish Lover Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 2,642	For your sump flow I'd recommend 3-5X your tank volume or the same flow rate as your skimmer's pump flow rate. This is probably around 350gph on the high end. A 1'' drain size will be fine, and a 3/4'' return pipe size should be fine too. If you want you can go bigger. A bigger drain is just a precaution against snails and other things clogging it up. A bigger return will allow or less head pressure which means you can get a smaller pump. For the CL I wouldn't recommend a SCWD because they can restrict a lot of flow. I your plumbing it over the top you may want to look into the wavy seas or other wavemakers. For the pipe size I like 1'' IMO for the inlet and 3/4'' for the return. It all really depends on how much flow you want and what pump you choose. I'd go for something around 1200gph so you get around 20X flow. I don't know much about RO/DI, all I know is that it really is better to have one and not skimp on it. __________________ - Jonny -, 120g 5 Year Old Reef w/ SPS, BTA, Zoos & some Softies. 40g Frag Tank. 40g Sump. Super Reef Octopus XP 3000 External Cone Skimmer. 250W Radiums. TaoTronics LED. PanWorld 200PS w/SQWD

07/28/2007, 12:38 PM	#4
jasonh Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 1,365	SunDevil95, I actually have spent a bit of time browsing in the FRAG forum...I actually found my tank and light on there I haven't seen many live rock threads recently though. But I'm keeping my eyes peeled. I'm really not 100% what I'm going to do for LR yet anyway. At first I was going to get all LR, then I thought of getting mostly base rock, and some live. Now recently I've been thinking about doing the DIY rock and seeding with a little live. I haven't found LR at a decent price anywhere here yet. I've been to both Pets Inc and Oceans Floor, and it's all a little expensive. ($8/lb for uncured) Even base rock is expensive at Oceans Floor at $3.50/lb for tiny pieces. I was going to go check out Aquatouch and Fins and Friends today to see the prices. As for the water, I'm not sure what to do. As I said, our apartment is pretty small, and having an RO unit filling a trash can for quite some time really wouldn't be the most ideal situation....neither would filling 16 5gal jugs, lol. I just figured, using those inline water filters (the ones that go under your sink) would be quite a bit better than using tap. jer77, How much does the SCWD restrict the flow? I really don't need some ungodly amount of water flow. Not to mention, I looked up that wavy seas thing, and while cool, it was such a pain to even find somewhere with the price on it, I don't think I'll be going that route. Something like an OM unit would be a little out of my price range I think... I think I will just do 3 1" bulkheads, that way I only have to buy 1 drill bit and it would simplify things a little __________________ Jason http://www.jasonhight.net Current Tank Info: Nothing right now. When I stop being poor, I'll set up another.

07/28/2007, 12:51 PM	#5
kuoka Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: NorCal Cali Posts: 713	I wouldn't use filtered tap water. But if you do, at least find out what the inline filter removes. Report your results on here (maybe another thread) and get other's opinions on the water quality alone. My $.02 worth. Good luck. __________________ They say don't talk about someone unless you've walked a mile in their shoes.. But if you do, at least you'll be ahead of them AND have their shoes! :) Current Tank Info: 72gal glass bow front reef, mostly LPS with some SPS, tangs, anthias, blenny, paired percula clowns, gold headed sleeper goby, red fairy wrasse

07/28/2007, 02:26 PM	#6
Scuba_Steve Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Pooler, Ga Posts: 1,342	why do you need it to fill a trash can? For your initial fill, use a smaller container, mix with salt, the put it into the tank. Repeat. For topoff, 5-20g at a time is plenty. Its not like you will have to run to the store every time your 5g jugs gets close to empty. I used 2 5g jugs when I had my ~55g setup, and I was getting refills less than once a week. __________________ 40g DIY AIO. DT Size is 27"x18"x17" SCA-301 skimmer, DIY ATS 4"x4" 1 cube setup, Ocean Revive 120w LED, Quiet One 3000, Jager 150w TBS Rock

07/28/2007, 02:18 AM	#3
SunDevil95 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Phoenix, Arizona Posts: 113	Hi Jason!, I think I'm at the exact same place in starting up my tank. At least we have the exact same questions! I think I'm going to tag onto your thread here to hear what everyone has to say. I was in the hobby for 3 years about 2 years ago, but I only had a 20g tank (large nano sized before nanos came out). Now with this 63g I'm a newbie, learning about how the big boys do it as far as filtration and things go. I know the concept of everything, but I don't know it, so please listen to other people's advice that have more experience with larger tanks. I'm not sure how experienced you are, so please know I'm not trying to insult your intelligence if I state things you already know. I've been on here for 2 weeks, and I've just been reading almost non-stop.. and I'm still getting the 'lingo'. As far as water goes, IMHO (in my humble opinion) I do not think you should use your water filter unless it is a last resort. As the LFS (local fish store) employee asked, (when I asked the EXACT same question last week) "Are you going to trust the $600 that you put into the LR / LS / and fish for $10 worth of water?" It put it into perspective, because I don't want to re-start 6 months down the line. Putting a hierarchy on this... I'd trust the grocery store more than the brita filter though, or better yet a water store where there's more of a regular flow and they do tests more frequently. He was estimating that to fill your sump and tank- that 16 jugs (5g each) would be your best option (that's what I've estimated mine). I'm going to (ahem) borrow my neighbor's 5g jugs from their work (I'll rinse them and return them when I'm done... they are aware and have been bringing one home every other day). To start the tank off, I was going to buy 1/2 of the pre-mixed salt water from the LFS (32nd St & Cactus), and I was going to fill the other 1/2 with RO/DI (reverse osmosis/de ionized) (sold there too) water that I mix myself. The reason for that is because they mentioned that sometimes the pre-mix water is sometimes a little low in pH and some things (nothing bad, just not 'perfect'... and not to mention it costs a little more). I was recommended to do it this way. Anyway, I hope you have an elevator! I'm not sure how much LR (Live Rock) that you're starting out with. I have nothing against supporting the LFS, but as I too am on a budget, I had to be creative. I know that I will be buying a lot from them later anyway. I was looking all over for the best prices. I would say that the best prices are about $3/lb for uncured LR, but the average is about $4. I couldn't do it if I had to get double, and I was told not to start unless I had at LEAST 1lb LR/gallon of water. I was here on RC and found someone in the valley who was getting out of the hobby. I got mine REALLY cheap. You may want to join the ARIZONA- FRAG (Fish Reef Aquarium Group) here on Reef Central. Then locally you can see what's out there. There is someone there who has 'cured' rock for sale almost constantly however I heard that you want to cure it for a few more weeks just to make sure. He sells it for $3-$7(I think). Remember, you should wait at least 4 weeks to make sure the LR is cured so that there is no amonia (then algae) spikes. My rock has been in 2 rubbermaid tubs curing for the past week, though the rock is most definitely cured as it came from a well established tank. Anyway, I know all about trying to do this on the cheap! I'm studying a lot. Hope you join the Arizona FRAG. Feel free to PM (private message) me. I'll look up that guy with LR and I'll tell him to PM you.

07/28/2007, 02:51 PM	#7
jc1of2 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: San Antonio Posts: 59	As for flow I just switched from a 1270gph down to a 400 gph. I figure as long as you have supplemental flow from powerheads you would do fine. The larger the pump the hotter it runs.

07/28/2007, 04:13 PM	#8
jasonh Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 1,365	Here is the info on the filter I was considering using: Filter Part Number: FXULC (rev. 2) Filter Type: Carbon Block Filter Size: 9.75 inches x 2.5 inches Micron Rating: 0.5 - 1.0 microns Filter Life: 600 gallons or 6 months - whichever comes first Removes: 98.00% of Lead 90.00% of Mercury 99.00% of Asbestos 99.99% of Cysts 89.00% of Atrazine 92.00% of Lindane 97.00% of Chlorine 99.00% of Turbidity or.. Filter Part Number: FXUVC Filter Life: 750 gallons or 6 months - whichever comes first Removes: 99.00% of Lead 96.00% of Mercury 99.00% of Asbestos 99.99% of Cysts 99.00% of VOCs 96.00% of MTBE 97.00% of Chlorine 99.00% of Turbidity Anyway, I still haven't made up my mind. And it is a good point on the need for a trash can. I had always just figured a trash can would be an ideal container, since I'll have close to 80gal of system volume. I figure if I need to do a 30% water change or something, I'd need close to a 30gal container. But a smaller container would likely be ok now that I think about it. Also, my wife and I were just talking, and it may actually be easier to put an RO under our bathroom sink because there is more room underneath, and there is a decent spot for a ~20gal Rubbermaid container to hide out of the way. jc1of2, I'd prefer to not have any extra powerheads in the display, which is why I'd like to have my flow needs figured out first

07/28/2007, 04:49 PM	#9
kuoka Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: NorCal Cali Posts: 713	Go with the RO or RO/DI unit under the bathroom sink then. __________________ They say don't talk about someone unless you've walked a mile in their shoes.. But if you do, at least you'll be ahead of them AND have their shoes! :) Current Tank Info: 72gal glass bow front reef, mostly LPS with some SPS, tangs, anthias, blenny, paired percula clowns, gold headed sleeper goby, red fairy wrasse

07/28/2007, 07:24 PM	#10
Scuba_Steve Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Pooler, Ga Posts: 1,342	This is a mistake alot of newbies make. And 95% of them regret in in the near future. Trust me, Find a way for an ro/di, and start off the right way the first time. __________________ 40g DIY AIO. DT Size is 27"x18"x17" SCA-301 skimmer, DIY ATS 4"x4" 1 cube setup, Ocean Revive 120w LED, Quiet One 3000, Jager 150w TBS Rock

07/29/2007, 05:14 PM	#11
jasonh Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 1,365	OK, I guess I have another question. I got to thinking about how I want to build my overflow...I was at HD last night, and they have pieces of glass that are 4" x 36" I figured this would be perfect. Grab 2 pieces, cut them to size, and silicone them into the corner. Only 1 cut per piece would be nice, to keep from having wonky cuts (I made an 8" cube a while back...it's tough to keep the cutter straight) My only concern is...will a 4" x 4" corner overflow be big enough to fit a standpipe in? I'll be drilling a hole into the back of the tank, and put on a 90, and then have a Durso. I might actually even get 3 pieces and do the overflow in the center, I haven't decided yet. __________________ Jason http://www.jasonhight.net Current Tank Info: Nothing right now. When I stop being poor, I'll set up another.

07/29/2007, 11:52 PM	#12
Scuba_Steve Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Pooler, Ga Posts: 1,342	Look up a gurgle buster. They fit nicely in a tight space. but depending on pipe size, a durso should fit as well. __________________ 40g DIY AIO. DT Size is 27"x18"x17" SCA-301 skimmer, DIY ATS 4"x4" 1 cube setup, Ocean Revive 120w LED, Quiet One 3000, Jager 150w TBS Rock

07/30/2007, 12:09 AM	#13
SunDevil95 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Phoenix, Arizona Posts: 113	jasonh, PM paljets (Paul) and ask him what he has for liverock. I think his prices is between $3-$9 for semi-cured LR ranging from baserock to premium rock. He lives in Ahwatukee.

07/31/2007, 08:24 PM	#14
SunDevil95 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Phoenix, Arizona Posts: 113	jasonh, Newhere has a thread on the Arizona FRAG and is tearing down his tank. He is selling his LR for I think $3/lb and has 60 lbs. You may want to PM him.

07/31/2007, 09:19 PM	#15
jasonh Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 1,365	yeah, I saw that. Unfortunately I'm nowhere near ready for LR yet. Maybe this weekend I'll see about grabbing a small bucket of salt and a Rubbermaid bin, and see if I can find a new impeller for my powerhead...but I don't think I'll have the finances to get some LR or anything till 2 weeks from now. Plus, I've still gotta decide on where to drill the holes, order the bit, drill the holes, build the overflow, put baffles in the 20L to make it a sump (figure out where to put the baffles), get a return pump, do the plumbing, find a glass top, lug a lot of water from the LFS, yadda yadda yadda. Sheesh, this is turning out to be one heck of an undertaking __________________ Jason http://www.jasonhight.net Current Tank Info: Nothing right now. When I stop being poor, I'll set up another.

07/31/2007, 11:59 PM	#16
SunDevil95 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Phoenix, Arizona Posts: 113	I understand the budget part, but perhaps he may work with you? I just wouldn't go and pay LFS prices for LR when there's plenty if you're patient. I've just done a 3 week (of 4 predicted weeks) water change on my LR, so in a week more things should be ready. This should coincide with everything being built more or less. I can practically start as soon as the 'dust settles' literally (but I'm going to give it a week before I dare put anything in it). I'm still building my stand (hopefully done this weekend), and this weekend I'll be drilling and plumbing the 63g acrylic. You may want to put a thread on AZFrag. I know I've seen people lend their things like drill bits (then you won't have to order and buy one). I'm not sure if acrylic baffles work on a glass tank, but I just went to Desert Star Plastics and they have very reasonable prices for acrylic. I was planning a 20g or 29g (or perhaps a 30g) for a sump too, but I'm nowhere near putting that together (next week) right now. I'm thinking about going to the upcoming FRAG meetings. Just to see how it works and to see if anyone has things for sale. I'll keep my ears peeled for an overflow or something if it happens to come up. Anyway, I hope it helps. Good luck!