QUICK help - Setting up QT tank for ick - Should I use water from display?

tonyespinoza · 08/02/2007, 01:03 PM

The titles says it all.

Setting up a hyposalinity tank to treat a cowfish showing a couple tiny white spots on his tail. I've had him for 3 days and stupidly didn't QT him. (I GET IT now.)

He's eating fine and as cute as a button, but I think I want to back up and go through QT. There are no other fish in the tank, but there is live rock and a GSP colony.

In setting up my QT tank (12g Eclipse) should I use water from the main display or would that transfer ick? I thought the issue was more with the fish's immune system than the parasite itself, but then again, I'm clueless.

Any quick advice!?

-tE

CarlC · 08/02/2007, 02:36 PM

You could start the QT tank with display water but for water changes use freshly made water.

Carl

tonyespinoza · 08/02/2007, 02:55 PM

great - i feel this will keep the stress of the transfer lower for the cowfish. makes sense.

i am thinking i will transfer my mechanical filter media over as well (foam from the tuzne comline filter) to seed the biological fitration.

i also have a few pieces of small cycled live rock i could include. would it be okay to put them in the hospital tank during the hyposalinity treatment?

(i know this is not standard operating procedure for a hospital tank, but am trying to make sure i don't have a double whammy of failed biological filtration with these 3 specks of ick... he's doing well and eating, i'm just not taking any chances).

CarlC · 08/02/2007, 03:02 PM

Putting cycled rock in hypo will do nothing but kill it. Skip the rock. Are you going to put the mech. media in the eclipse filter? Put in some pieces of PVC for the fish to hide in.

You are doing the right thing! Life for the fish will be so much less stressfull without the ich.

Carl

tonyespinoza · 08/02/2007, 03:12 PM

thanks for the encouragement. i will NEVER put a fish in a tank again with a full quarantine period. lesson learned. in the mean time i'll do everything i can and am hopeful he'll be fine.

yes - i was thinking of putting the mech filter material into the eclipse. seems similar to the notion running a sponge filter in your sump and transferring it over to the QT when needed.

next dumb question:

i don't understand why the bacteria on the sponge would survive the hypo, but the bacteria in the live rock wouldn't.

i realize other stuff on the live rock could die (and maybe the die off would lead to a spike), but wouldn't the bacteria survive just as it does in the proverbial sump-sponge-filter?

-tE

kevin2000 · 08/02/2007, 03:52 PM

Just remember that if your cow fish had ich .. that tanks now infectd and every fish in that tank needs to be treated. If you want the show tank ich free your going to leave it without fish for about a month and make sure that future fish are QT in advance of placing them into the ST.

CarlC · 08/02/2007, 04:02 PM

You are right. It's not the bacteria you need to worry about.

Live rock contains much more than bacteria. If you take a good sized piece and crack it open some of the things that come out are just amazing. That is if the rock is good and healthy.

The eclipse filter has a benefit that a sponge filter doesn't. If the need to run carbon should arise you have no problem running it with the eclipse.

I use a sponge filter but if carbon is needed I get the fluval canister out.

Carl

tonyespinoza · 08/02/2007, 07:01 PM

thanks for the responses.

there are no other fish in the tank, so no worries there.

agreed: all future fish get a 1 month quarantine.

i dropped by the LFS to pick up some stuff for the QT and noticed their spotted box fish had the exact same little white spots on his tail. i asked about them and they said they didn't know what they were but that they see them on a lot of box fish. they insisted it's not ick.

funny.

anyway, whatever it is, i'm going to rewind the tape to quarantine time for this guy and hope i can make the move as smooth as possible. by the time he hits the display i will have confidence that it ain't ick and he's healthy.

-tE

tonyespinoza · 08/02/2007, 07:11 PM

ok - the LFS (a really good one) says that the cowfish will die at 1.010. they are recommending 1.016 (over a couple days) and 0.2 ppm of copper for 3 weeks.

i was going to try hypo without copper as that seems to be the standard recommendation (as far as i could discern from reading posts) here on RC.

any further guidance would be much appreciated!

i'm going to let SW mix over night and begin the process tomorrow.

CarlC · 08/02/2007, 08:17 PM

There is no reason to take the fish to 1.016. If it is ich it will only be killed at 1.010 or less. 1.016 will relieve some of the osmotic pressure and provide more O2 but it won't have an effect on any parasites.

I would run the fish at whatever you plan to run your display at. If you see a problem then worry about hypo. Having the fish out of the display is still a good thing even if you never have to treat anything. It will give you time to control what the fish is eating.

This is also a great time to get the fish back up to par health wise. Beta Glucon is absolutely the best immune system booster available. Sprinkle some over frozen food and let it sit a bit then feed.

Carl

tonyespinoza · 08/09/2007, 10:05 AM

Thanks for the tip.

He's been at 1.016 and has been happy as a clam. The assumed Ich spots went away within the 3 days i spent getting down to this level. He's never seemed unhealthy, but the flow in my reef tank is probably just too much for him. So I'm planning a new tank for him.

So far so good!

Thanks for all the help.

-tE

wooden_reefer · 08/09/2007, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CarlC
Putting cycled rock in hypo will do nothing but kill it. Skip the rock. Are you going to put the mech. media in the eclipse filter? Put in some pieces of PVC for the fish to hide in.

You are doing the right thing! Life for the fish will be so much less stressfull without the ich.

Carl

I don't know what you mean by kill it.

Nitrification bacteria on the LR can adjust to lower salinity slowly.

It depends on how quickly one lowers the salinity.

CarlC · 08/09/2007, 05:43 PM

The life inside the rock. I mean worms, pods, tiny brittle stars, and whatever else might be living in it is what will really throw off water quality. You aren't going to see it to know it is dead or dying.

Carl

wooden_reefer · 08/09/2007, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CarlC
The life inside the rock. I mean worms, pods, tiny brittle stars, and whatever else might be living in it is what will really throw off water quality. You aren't going to see it to know it is dead or dying.

Carl

yes, agreed.

But often times the ich problem happens when the LR is still new, soon after cycling, with little else but bacteria. Then it can be used with hypo.

tonyespinoza · 08/09/2007, 06:48 PM

yeah, my tank is very new (1 month). only thing in it is one GSP and live rock. (since i removed the cowfish.)

CarlC · 08/09/2007, 07:32 PM

I have gotten rock shipped to me that was freshly imported and cracked pieces open. I was amazed at what was alive inside it.

The die off we see during curing is mostly external. The goodies on the inside are more than capable of living through the rigors of all the shipping as long as the rock is damp. A good example is hitchhiker crabs. They find a nice deep nook or cranny and can remain alive for pretty long periods.

Carl

08/02/2007, 01:03 PM	#1
tonyespinoza Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: santa cruz mountains Posts: 1,268	QUICK help - Setting up QT tank for ick - Should I use water from display? The titles says it all. Setting up a hyposalinity tank to treat a cowfish showing a couple tiny white spots on his tail. I've had him for 3 days and stupidly didn't QT him. (I GET IT now.) He's eating fine and as cute as a button, but I think I want to back up and go through QT. There are no other fish in the tank, but there is live rock and a GSP colony. In setting up my QT tank (12g Eclipse) should I use water from the main display or would that transfer ick? I thought the issue was more with the fish's immune system than the parasite itself, but then again, I'm clueless. Any quick advice!? -tE

08/02/2007, 02:36 PM	#2
CarlC Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Leesport, PA Posts: 1,099	You could start the QT tank with display water but for water changes use freshly made water. Carl

08/02/2007, 02:55 PM	#3
tonyespinoza Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: santa cruz mountains Posts: 1,268	great - i feel this will keep the stress of the transfer lower for the cowfish. makes sense. i am thinking i will transfer my mechanical filter media over as well (foam from the tuzne comline filter) to seed the biological fitration. i also have a few pieces of small cycled live rock i could include. would it be okay to put them in the hospital tank during the hyposalinity treatment? (i know this is not standard operating procedure for a hospital tank, but am trying to make sure i don't have a double whammy of failed biological filtration with these 3 specks of ick... he's doing well and eating, i'm just not taking any chances).

08/02/2007, 03:02 PM	#4
CarlC Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Leesport, PA Posts: 1,099	Putting cycled rock in hypo will do nothing but kill it. Skip the rock. Are you going to put the mech. media in the eclipse filter? Put in some pieces of PVC for the fish to hide in. You are doing the right thing! Life for the fish will be so much less stressfull without the ich. Carl

08/02/2007, 03:12 PM	#5
tonyespinoza Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: santa cruz mountains Posts: 1,268	thanks for the encouragement. i will NEVER put a fish in a tank again with a full quarantine period. lesson learned. in the mean time i'll do everything i can and am hopeful he'll be fine. yes - i was thinking of putting the mech filter material into the eclipse. seems similar to the notion running a sponge filter in your sump and transferring it over to the QT when needed. next dumb question: i don't understand why the bacteria on the sponge would survive the hypo, but the bacteria in the live rock wouldn't. i realize other stuff on the live rock could die (and maybe the die off would lead to a spike), but wouldn't the bacteria survive just as it does in the proverbial sump-sponge-filter? -tE

08/02/2007, 03:52 PM	#6
kevin2000 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,805	Just remember that if your cow fish had ich .. that tanks now infectd and every fish in that tank needs to be treated. If you want the show tank ich free your going to leave it without fish for about a month and make sure that future fish are QT in advance of placing them into the ST.

08/02/2007, 04:02 PM	#7
CarlC Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Leesport, PA Posts: 1,099	You are right. It's not the bacteria you need to worry about. Live rock contains much more than bacteria. If you take a good sized piece and crack it open some of the things that come out are just amazing. That is if the rock is good and healthy. The eclipse filter has a benefit that a sponge filter doesn't. If the need to run carbon should arise you have no problem running it with the eclipse. I use a sponge filter but if carbon is needed I get the fluval canister out. Carl

08/02/2007, 07:01 PM	#8
tonyespinoza Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: santa cruz mountains Posts: 1,268	thanks for the responses. there are no other fish in the tank, so no worries there. agreed: all future fish get a 1 month quarantine. i dropped by the LFS to pick up some stuff for the QT and noticed their spotted box fish had the exact same little white spots on his tail. i asked about them and they said they didn't know what they were but that they see them on a lot of box fish. they insisted it's not ick. funny. anyway, whatever it is, i'm going to rewind the tape to quarantine time for this guy and hope i can make the move as smooth as possible. by the time he hits the display i will have confidence that it ain't ick and he's healthy. -tE

08/02/2007, 07:11 PM	#9
tonyespinoza Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: santa cruz mountains Posts: 1,268	ok - the LFS (a really good one) says that the cowfish will die at 1.010. they are recommending 1.016 (over a couple days) and 0.2 ppm of copper for 3 weeks. i was going to try hypo without copper as that seems to be the standard recommendation (as far as i could discern from reading posts) here on RC. any further guidance would be much appreciated! i'm going to let SW mix over night and begin the process tomorrow.

08/02/2007, 08:17 PM	#10
CarlC Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Leesport, PA Posts: 1,099	There is no reason to take the fish to 1.016. If it is ich it will only be killed at 1.010 or less. 1.016 will relieve some of the osmotic pressure and provide more O2 but it won't have an effect on any parasites. I would run the fish at whatever you plan to run your display at. If you see a problem then worry about hypo. Having the fish out of the display is still a good thing even if you never have to treat anything. It will give you time to control what the fish is eating. This is also a great time to get the fish back up to par health wise. Beta Glucon is absolutely the best immune system booster available. Sprinkle some over frozen food and let it sit a bit then feed. Carl

08/09/2007, 10:05 AM	#11
tonyespinoza Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: santa cruz mountains Posts: 1,268	Thanks for the tip. He's been at 1.016 and has been happy as a clam. The assumed Ich spots went away within the 3 days i spent getting down to this level. He's never seemed unhealthy, but the flow in my reef tank is probably just too much for him. So I'm planning a new tank for him. So far so good! Thanks for all the help. -tE

08/09/2007, 05:43 PM	#13
CarlC Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Leesport, PA Posts: 1,099	The life inside the rock. I mean worms, pods, tiny brittle stars, and whatever else might be living in it is what will really throw off water quality. You aren't going to see it to know it is dead or dying. Carl

08/09/2007, 06:48 PM	#15
tonyespinoza Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: santa cruz mountains Posts: 1,268	yeah, my tank is very new (1 month). only thing in it is one GSP and live rock. (since i removed the cowfish.)

08/09/2007, 07:32 PM	#16
CarlC Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Leesport, PA Posts: 1,099	I have gotten rock shipped to me that was freshly imported and cracked pieces open. I was amazed at what was alive inside it. The die off we see during curing is mostly external. The goodies on the inside are more than capable of living through the rigors of all the shipping as long as the rock is damp. A good example is hitchhiker crabs. They find a nice deep nook or cranny and can remain alive for pretty long periods. Carl