HQI MH vs. regular single ended MH

[agoutihead]

I'm in bit of a dilemma. I want MH over my 40 breeder, but I think the dark spots in the top corners are going to be too much to look at with just a single 150W HQI. So I would like to do two. But I havent found a 36" retro kit that offers 2-150W HQI fixtures with 2-39W T5.

I always understood the HQI to be a more efficent bulb in energy consumption and lower heat temps compared to a single ended MH bulb correct?

Does anyone know of a kit that does offer that?

How much of a difference in PAR, color, temp and energy consumption are the singled ended vs. HQI?

[jimbo045]

I like , and use 14,000s. They seem to have a wide output. JD

[agoutihead]

I am only famliar with kelvin units when dealing with HQI, are they exactly the same for single ended?

I planned on using phoenix 14k in HQI 150W.

So I'm looking for as blue as possible with good growth still.

What is the single ended twin of a phoenix 14k?

[RichConley]

Originally posted by agoutihead

I always understood the HQI to be a more efficent bulb in energy consumption and lower heat temps compared to a single ended MH bulb correct?

Not in any sense.

[agoutihead]

What do you mean? Can you elaborate?

[RichConley]

They aren't more efficient, and they dont have lower heat.

[agoutihead]

So what benefit does one gain by going with HQI over single ended?

[Peter Eichler]

Originally posted by agoutihead
So what benefit does one gain by going with HQI over single ended?

Mostly a smaller more compact light which usually makes for more attractive hoods and pendants. Typically 175w SE and 150w DE bulbs produce the same amount of light using the same kelvin rating and bulb manufacturer so you're saving a little bit in energy cost with the HQI for the same output.

[RichConley]

Originally posted by Peter Eichler
Typically 175w SE and 150w DE bulbs produce the same amount of light using the same kelvin rating and bulb manufacturer so you're saving a little bit in energy cost with the HQI for the same output.

Not according to Sanjay's testing.

[oct2274]

typically DE bulbs have higher PAR at the same wattage when using comparible ballasts. This could do with the reflectors or the larger bulb blocking some of the light with the SE. You will be using the same amount of energy, but getting more intensity in some instances. Heat should be the same. See Sanjays website for bulb comparisons.

[agoutihead]

Hmm. Interesting. Well I think hellolights had a 36" "build it yourself" kit that did have 2 single ended bulbs on it.

If they produce the same amount of heat and energy consumption, I guess I'm not dead in the water for MH yet. Ill have to look into it more.

So they make a phoenix 14k in single end?

[agoutihead]

Well I planned on getting my bulbs from reefgeek and the only thing they have in 175W is the following...

Hamilton Tech - 14k
Ushio - 14k & 20k

Which bulb is the most blue between the two? Do single ended bulbs have higher PAR rating than HQI?

I would like the 20k, but if the growth isn't very good on it, I'll just get the 14k (I just hope it's really blue)

[oct2274]

the best 175 SE bulb is the iwasaki 15k hands down.

[agoutihead]

anyone have a link to this sanjays website?

[agoutihead]

alright, hello lights has those, they are 80 bucks a piece though! is that a good deal?

I will still probably get my T5 bulbs from reefgeek, unless I can find a place that offers the same T5 bulbs and the iwasaki 15k.

anyone know of any other good bulb/retro kit websites other than hellolights & reefgeek?

what is the life span of a single ended bulb?

[Peter Eichler]

Originally posted by RichConley
Not according to Sanjay's testing.

Here's a direct quote from Sanjay

"The 150W double ended lamps are very attractive choice for lighting, and in fact we feel they are a better choice when compared to the 175W single ended lamps – based on the fact they produce as much light as the 175W lamps and consume less electricity. Also, the smaller size of the lamp makes it more effective in a reflective fixture."

Did he revise his beliefs since making that statement?

[Peter Eichler]

Originally posted by agoutihead
anyone have a link to this sanjays website?

http://www.reeflightinginfo.arvixe.com/articles.htm

Here's the article that the above quote is from

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...2/feature2.htm

[oct2274]

rich will argue any topic on the forums. check out some of his other posts posts, they usually have a confrontational way about them It makes me want to hug him!

[Peter Eichler]

Originally posted by agoutihead
alright, hello lights has those, they are 80 bucks a piece though! is that a good deal?

I will still probably get my T5 bulbs from reefgeek, unless I can find a place that offers the same T5 bulbs and the iwasaki 15k.

anyone know of any other good bulb/retro kit websites other than hellolights & reefgeek?

what is the life span of a single ended bulb?

http://www.championlighting.com/home.php?cat=540

As for lifespan, most people change them about once a year. Though recenly it has come to light :P that after the first couple months the decrease in light output is the greatest and with each passing month after that it is very small. In short the old belief that MH bulbs should be replaced every 12 months doesn't hold a whole lot of weight.

[RichConley]

Ok, lets look at bulbs:

XM10K

150
PAR: 61
CCT:8300

175
PAR: 62
CCT:10,100

Theyre the same brightness, but the 175 is a significantly bluer bulb.

Ushio 10K
150:
PAR: 59
CCT:6600
175:
PAR:75
CCT:8892

XM 20K
150
PAR:23
175
PAR:51
The 175 is bluer too, but theyre both higher than is readable.
Again, the 175w bulb is bluer, but this time it is much brighter

need I keep going? Or need I bring up the 15K Iwasaki 175?

I'm sure there are bulbs where the 150 is the better performer, but it seems to me that every bulb I check, the 175 either has more PAR, or is significanly higher color temp (in which case, the bulb of the same color would have significantly higher PAR)

[agoutihead]

So Peter, bulbs should be replaced every 8 months for premium performance? Or you are able to stretch it to 12 months? I guess I'm a bit confused by your last post.

Rich if you could post the info about the Iwasaki 15k, that would be really helpful as those are the bulbs I will probably get. (or at least post a link to the info)

Obviously these Iwasaki's are on the more expensive side, does that mean they will hold up strong for a full 12 months?

Why do single ended bulbs drop so much more in PAR than HQI in the begining?

[CyclistMT]

agoutihead, this actually goes beyond just the difference in wattage.

Reflector choice will have a huge impact on the benefit of one over the other. Many (if not most) DE bulbs come in reflectors that (in theroy) are optimized for that type of bulb. If you compare a 150w bulb in a quality reflector to a 175w bulb in a DIY type of reflector, it is likely that the 150w will have higher par and be a better choice.

However, if you use a quality reflector (such as a Lumenarc) it is very likely that the 175w can come out on top. Especially if you use the Iwasaki 15K. That bulb produces par equal to or exceeding many 250w bulbs.

My point is that there is more to the equation then just wattage or bulb choice. Use Sanjay's site and the links contained there to educate yourself. It can get a bit technical but you will find a ton of useful information.

I had the same questions and the conclusion I finally came to is that I can approach or exceed 250w MH intenities with the Iwaski bulb in a Lunenarc. In my opinion, there is no 150w that can come close.

I think that over your tank a single 175w Iwaski 15K in a Lumenarc will provide you with all the light you need (assuming you have the room for the reflector). Of course that's highly dependent on what you intend to keep but with that set up you will not need 2- 150w and will save you on bulb replacement cost in the long run.

Good luck!

[oct2274]

rich, i think the one thing that doesn't factor in, and Sanjay had thought of when making that comment, is that there are better reflectors for DE. I'm pretty sure the tests were all reflectorless. I could be wrong there though. No matter what you can't go wrong with the 15k iwasaki as i stated above. It really has to do with how much room you have and what style you prefer.

[agoutihead]

I only plan on keeping softies and lps mostly, but a little sps and a clam or two.

Well the only reason I was planning on using 2 bulbs on my 40 breeder was to space them out more so I dont have any dark spots in the top corners.

You think that 1 single ended MH positioned in the middle of the hood will light the entire tank top to bottom?

[RichConley]

Originally posted by agoutihead


Why do single ended bulbs drop so much more in PAR than HQI in the begining?

Where are you getting that? I've never heard of that, nor have I noticed that. I've run both, (250 SE and 250DE) and honestly, I think SE is pretty much superior in every way.



175w Iwasaki

Icecap
PAR:86
CCT:14565

Advance magnetic
PAR: 71
CCT: 15215