Cyano problems again, Dosed Chemi-clean

[Marc]

Hi all,

I have had a continueous battle with cyano and decided to use chemi-clean by Boyd Enterprises. I read and followed the directions and after 48 hours of dosage did a water change. I turned the skimmers on and my lights to find that most of my mushroom corals detached and some shriveled up and died. The fish and shrimp are fine. My question is does anyone know exactly is the ingredients in chemiclean? I know it acts as an oxydizer, but is it an atibiotic to? Does anyone have the same experiences with chemi-clean? My cyano is gone for now but so could have everything else if I did not do that water change. I now installed two skimmers this time to make sure this is under control.

Thanks,
Marc

[Kannin]

1st. I would run carbon to get anything out of the water that might have affected your shrooms. 2nd. I battled cyano for close to 2 months and I finally won the battle without using chemicals. Phosphate reactor, more flow, and introducing less nutrients. Unfortunately... it will come back! Cyano is the symptom.

[Marc]

I used Rowaphos that was rated for 1000 gallons of saltwater and it still did nothing for me. I even kept getting diatom algae with the rowaphos running.

Marc

[oct2274]

are you using RO/DI water? If you are using Tap water for your aquarium you will never beat the algae.

[stevedola]

I actually just used chemclean 10 days ago.
Heres my story-
*Added it to the tank 5pm fri while turning off the skimmer and taking out the carbon.
*sat morning started to break down cyano-corals were fine.
sat night, all euphyllia corals looked retracted and shriveled. Friend said use a airated so I did (put it in display) and made up a 25gallon WC for future.
*Sunday morning torch and hammers looked ill but cyano leaving the tank . sunday night turned on skimmer (going NUTZ) added carbon and changed the water.
*by the mon morning my torch had brown jelly but all others looked ok just retracted. Cyano was 90% gone.
monday night did 10 wc from skimmate overflowing but found the torch was dead.
*Tuesday did another 5 gallon WC from skimmate and corals were looking alot better.
*Today 10days later, NO cyano (plus!), corals are all fine (except torch) but hammers and frogs are still alittle retracted, water is reading nitrates=0, po4<.01-water is clear and beautiful!

now I know that cyano is a symptom but I think I know what caused the outbreak and since then have changed them. I think that if I had started with the air pump I might not have lost anything but you live and learn. Ill be sure to pass it along. Do I think its for everyone? no but I seriously doubt that I would have been cyano free after 5days. Funny thing is that it didnt stress out my faviids or mussids only the Euphyllia colonies. acros, montis, clams and others were fine the entire time.

[Marc]

Oh yeah, I do and I also have an extensive life support system with full computer automation. The only thing I may have to do is to build a larger more powerful skimmer. Possibly a double injected mazzie skimmer, or break down and by a larger ETSS. Hell for the money they want I might as well build a copy of there ETSS 2500's powered by a sequence pump. That will do it!!! LOL!!!

Marc

[stevedola]

ricordias were condensed down too. definitely right though Marc, that water change after 48 hrs is cutting it close...might think about doing the WC at 36hrs, just wonder if it would deminish the effects of the chem?

[Marc]

I am not sure but I would like to find out if this is an antibiotic or an oxidizer. Both are harmful but sometimes it has to be done, with great care that is. Right now my tank is sparkling clean and I can't keep my eyes off it. Even my liverock seems it has been rejuvinated. The coraline are bright purple and red. I know with my high bioload it will probably be a huge mess again in another two weeks anyway. LOL!!!

Marc

[stevedola]

funny thing is I only have 2 clowns and a yellow tang in a 75 and still had an insane amount of Cyano. I use RODI (tds =0) and do weekly waterchanges-never overfeed. However I think when I switched my lighting with a T5 GE 3000k bulb it helped the cyano grow. Along with running out of my ESV carbon and using the LFS's bulk carbon which I think started leaching PO4s into my water.

Either way- I dont really care right now since my tank is Sparkling too.

[melev]

Marc, I've used chemi-clean many times in my reef tanks and never had any losses as you've described. The instructions do suggest adding oxygen to the water during treatment with an airpump and airstone, but I've only done that a couple of times. Since water and air mix as it flows down to the sump, I tend to think the oxygen level is acceptable - especially since my fish seem unaffected the entire time. FYI, when I treat with this product, the ORP in my tank drops from over 300 to 80 within mere minutes. It takes a few days to get back up to 325 again. (I do not run ozone)

The reason for the water change is obvious in that it will export waste and cyano bacteria die-off. It also helps your skimmer settle down a little more quickly.

If you want to try something different in the future, you might try three days of darkness instead. I did that a few months ago, and the tank looked great and water clarity was fantastic. There's an entire thread to that topic, which was ThOTM not too long ago.

[Marc]

Thanks Melev, That makes me feel better. I was talking to a guy at the LFS and he said that he treated two customer tanks and crashed them both. I did notice however that my pH dropped to 7.83 and I added some buffer but did not do much to the pH. You are right about the oxygen levels dropping. That would explain why the pH was so low. As soon as I turned on my skimmers the pH shot up to 8.24 in a matter of hours. Do you know if the Chemiclean is an antibiotic though? Thanks Melev

Marc

[melev]

They won't tell me. I asked them repeatedly just for my own edification. It must be something like baby powder since they guard the secret so carefully. LOL

It may be in the ethromycin (sp?) family. Sometimes it helps to buffer the tank upwards 10 mins before you dose, so avoid a sudden drop in parameters. That is what I had to do with another product that I use to remove phosphates.

[Marc]

Thats a little scary if they won't tell you. Either they are using a common product like you would find in oxyclean and they are afraid they would lose business since they charge so much for the stuff. I won't use it anymore unless it is a really drastic situation. By the way, how is your liverock doing with the treatment. Did you notice any die off there or bacteria wise? How did your corals survive through it?

Marc

[melev]

I lost a few SPS after three days of darkness, but that was probably not necessarily the lack of lighting. It turns out my salinity was lower than I thought for a long time. My refractometer was way off.

There are many products in this hobby that don't reveal the contents. And no-one to really enforce anything or to do quality control.

Another brand that I've used that works is Red Slime Control by BlueLifeUSA. Everyone sell that product for $17.99, and it treats 400g.

[nauticac4]

I've used the Red slime before. It works great but will drive a skimmer crazy for about a week afterwards even with a good WC. Good luck with the Cyano. I am still battling it slightly in my nano. I did 2 days in darkness and was amazed at the results. Everything in the tank seems so much fuller and the Cyano is gone.

[jimwat]

FWIW, I have cyano in my refugium but not in my main tank. Since the water is the same and I do not have any critters that eat it (that I know of), the only difference is lighting and flow.

I have also used Chemi-Clean in the past without any detrimental effects. However, I only had soft corals in my tank the last time I used it.

[stevedola]

I did the black out for 3 days alittle over a month ago. Worked well for the first 5-6 days and then the cyano came back with a vengence. but at that point i hadnt changed my bulb yet or the carbon i was using.