Want to do a reef? [for coral newbies: ask away.]

[Sk8r]

Ask me...I'll answer basic questions or try to refer you to someone who can. I'm in the mood to talk about corals and such this weekend, and if you'd like to ask, I'll be happy to tell you what I know.

When you're starting out and buying equipment, it saves a lot to be heading in the direction you want to go from the start rather than getting way over your head in a direction you really don't want.

I keep lps [large polyp stony: the poofy ones] and sps [small polyp stony: the colored sticks.] I have kept softies. Even nems, though I gave that up after the one that took over half a 100g tank---biggest meanest darned carpet you ever saw. I'm not in favor of anemones in a coral tank, I'll say that upfront. You cannot imagine the mischief a nem can get into amongst corals of any sort.

But, no holds barred on a basic level, there's a chance I can answer startup questions, at least, the where-do-I-go-from-here's.

[Jeff]

I have a question.
Is that cat as large as it looks in your avatar picture?

Jeff

[Sk8r]

Grin. She actually weighs about 8 lbs, about 2 pounds too much for her size. Her roomie weighs 18 pounds and is mostly [but not all] muscle. But she's the one you want NOT to try to pick up.

[Pea-brain]

Okay, I've had my aquarium for about 6 months, a 10 I recently hooked up to 2 other 10 gallons. I never actually got around to asking this question, but what corals can I keep in a 10 gallon with only 18 watts of light?

I've got GSP and some purple-brown palythoas that hitchhiked on the GSP rock. I didn't buy this tank to house corals, and corals certaintly aren't the main piece in there (It was originally a mants shrimp setup, but the mantis dies and soon I'm getting a yellow headed jawfish) but corals are nice. Anything else besides GSP and the palys that will survive under 18 watt NO lighting?

The GSP is actually doing really well and hasn't lost much color (was under metal halides before, but I'm sure near the bottom) I like corals that eat things and was thinking maybe a low-photosynthetic LPS that relies heavily on supplemental feeding of non-planktonic foods (like shrimp or krill pieces) but the only corals I've considered and decided against are those brown mushrooms and xenia. Thanks!

Dan

[kathainbowen]

Originally posted by Sk8r
Grin. She actually weighs about 8 lbs, about 2 pounds too much for her size. Her roomie weighs 18 pounds and is mostly [but not all] muscle. But she's the one you want NOT to try to pick up.

If my cat weren't such a (*word not allowed on Reef Central*) she would look hilarious next to yours. Your kitty would look positively dwarfed by mine, but Misty's such a (*that word again*) that she would never voluntarily sit beside another cat... any other cat. 13.5lbs. And her roomie is 11.75 ish (Barry, my little boy). Lol. Sorry, that's really off topic, but what can I say? There's just something about a fat kitty that really funny and endearing to me. I love your cat on your avatar and felt the need to comment.

[kathainbowen]

Originally posted by Pea-brain

The GSP is actually doing really well and hasn't lost much color (was under metal halides before, but I'm sure near the bottom) I like corals that eat things and was thinking maybe a low-photosynthetic LPS that relies heavily on supplemental feeding of non-planktonic foods (like shrimp or krill pieces) but the only corals I've considered and decided against are those brown mushrooms and xenia. Thanks!

//THREAD HIJACK//

Ack! Cutting out the possibilities of mushrooms?!? Have you not considered ricordia like the florida rics? You can get some cool oranges and greens for not too terribly expensive in the florida ricordia (as opposed to the yuma which can be budget-breaking if you're cheap like me). Very, very easy to keep and please coral, and ricordia don't spread as swiftly as the more common discosoma.

[Pea-brain]

Just cutting out the brown disc mushrooms. I didn't think I could keep ricordia. It just looked like a high light coral. Any special ricordia that would do well? I don't mind things that spread fast because I have alot of time and am willing to trim.

Dan

[happyface888]

Why not list some low maintance weed corals that would look good for beginiers?

[Sk8r]

In a ten, I'd go for mushrooms and buttons/zoas, maybe a little xenia.
You'll need to monitor alkalinity [8.3-9.3] and ph 7.9-8.3. Salinity ideally 1.025. If you can set up a knotted airline and an old coke bottle to drip ro/di freshwater at a rate that will prevent salinity spikes, so much the better. THat will save you having to test beaucoup times a day. use your sister's eyebrow pencil to draw a line on the tank representing the water when it's perfect salinity, and drip enough to keep that line constant [loosen the knot], you'll have perfect salinity. More complex arrangements involve an autotopoff unit with a dual float switch [75.00 from autotopoff.com] and a maxijet and a ro/di bucket---but a knotted air hose will keep you going on a small system.

HTH.

[Sk8r]

Lowest maintainance are discosoma neglecta, discosomas in general, reds, purples, brown mushrooms, button polyps, etc. Even some stony corals like bubble love low light; brighter light: go for caulestra, frogspawn, hammer, all stonies.

Secret of soft and stony corals: stable alkalinity, salinity, temperature; and if you're keeping stonies, add, stable calcium. You need tests for these. But they're fun and very active.

Just watch out for bubble: that stuff shoots out 6" 'sweeper tentacles' when feeling its oats, and will touch and sting its downcurrent neighbors. Caulestras are only 1/4" long. Here's where you start learning coral chess---placing your tentacled nightstalkers where they can't reach the less offensive corals.

DO: maintain stable chemistry.

Don't: start adding stuff you can't test for. If you don't own the test for it, don't dump the additive in.

[Mark75]

Hey Sk8r I would like to get your thoughts on fish for my 30 g. long. It is going to be a reef tank. Here are some of my favorites. Four line Wrasse, True Percula, Blackcap Basslet, some type of shrimp goby, African Flameback Angel , Helfrichi Firefish. What 3 or 4 fish would you get for a 30 g. long reef setup? Any "must have fishes" I might like?

[happyface888]

Helfrics are pretty expensive 150+ dwarf angel you would be taking a risk its a 50/50 either nips or it doesnt. If you are going to add a lined wrasse add it last because lined wrasses are known to be pretty aggressive. Shrimp gobies are entertaining with a pistol shrimp. A must have fish tailspot blenny.

[Mark75]

I agree the Helfrichis are pricey but hey with a 30 gallon I can't keep many so the ones I do I want to make them count! LOL

[carlos_fb]

I want to make my 60 gallon a SPS dominated tank. Which SPS corals are good for starters?

[jadeguppy]

Back to the original question, zoos and mushrooms will do fine under a no light?

[chaznsc]

I have a 12g aquapod setup. I have live sand, water, and rock. Its been abouut 6 months since I set it up. I have 2 fish, a clown and a domino. Would like to add some polyps, coral, or something in that area.

Do I have enough light?

What special conditions do these need?

Any good sources for buying?

Thanks for any general advice.

chaz

[rbtwo4]

What is chaeto used for?

[jadeguppy]

It is usually put in the fuge to remove organics. It is a macro algae.

[rbtwo4]

I don't have a fuge. So what can I do with it? Stick it in the skimmer?

[kathainbowen]

Originally posted by rbtwo4
What is chaeto used for?

Chaeto (chaetomorpha sp?) is, like JadeGuppy said, a macro algae used for nutrient exportation (pulling nitrates and other organic materials out of the water). It is often kept in refugiums or lit sumps. So long as it's growing (so you have to trim it occasionally), chaeto will be like a natural nitrate sponge! This does not take away the need for water changes, since the fish will still produce metabolites which need to be removed and since corals will eat up the iodine and other trace elements from your sea salts which need to be replenished. Yet, it does help keep the water quality more stable and clean. People who have dragonets such as the green mandarin, psychadelic mandarin, scooter blenny, and others also often prize chaeto as a sort of breeding mop for amphipods and copepods (since most, but not all, dragonets are reluctant to feed upon anything other than their naturally selective diet of only pods). You can usually purchase it by the fistfull or a ball size from your local LFS for anywhere from a few dollars to maybe $10 at the most (although, IMHO, that's waaaayyy too much for macro algae!).

However, some people use caulerpas in their refugium. There are plusses and minuses to the use of both. There are just more plusses to using chaeto in place of caulerpas. Caulerpas generally grow out of control and can quickly spread to your display tank, where they can overgrow and literally strangle other corals to death. In addition to that, many reef keepers have had caulerpas go to spore in reproduction, which can not only visually foul a tank, but can also add a terrible stench to a tank (bleh). Yet, if your refugium is in plain sight, such as a display one beneath your stand, many people prize caulerpas over chaeto with their unusual shapes (as opposed to what appears to be a knot of green strings). Bt they basically do the same thing.

On the same token, there is a sort of vogue movement towards using certain corals, such as Xenia species, in place of chaeto and caulerpa for nutrient exportation.

[kathainbowen]

Originally posted by rbtwo4
I don't have a fuge. So what can I do with it? Stick it in the skimmer?

Go hop on over to the DIY forum and ask about modding out Aquaclear filters for HOB refugiums. Several people have done it, and it's not that hard! I'd start a discussion here about it, but that would be god-awful thread jacking... especially since there were actually some DIY threads specifically detailing how to do it with pictures and everything!

[rbtwo4]

What would an aquaclear run for? I have a 30 gal tank.

[kathainbowen]

Originally posted by rbtwo4
What would an aquaclear run for? I have a 30 gal tank.

It's going to depend on where you buy it from and what their markup would be.

Hagen finally decided to branch away from the other methods of listing sizes of filters by either their GPH (gallons per hour) rating, or other model numbers, at least when it comes to the Aquaclear filters. Their current system numbers the filter by the maximum tank capacity they are rated for (although, admittedly, in reef tanks, we often consider these capacities to be OVER rated than what they're really worth, and, in all honesty, a large model may be better for your tank to maximize space for chaeto and to possibly cram your heater in there, too!).

I'd find it reasonable to pay anywhere from $20-25 for the Aquaclear 20 (which is sized out for anywhere from a 5-20 gallon tank). As you go up each model size, I would also reasonably expect a $5-10 price jump with each size increment (20, 30, 50, 75, 110).

[Sk8r]

Thanks for filling in, kathainbowen---I got distracted. Let me chime in on some I recall from the list above.

What you can keep is a 2-part question [no pun intended.] It depends on lights AND water. To keep corals well, you want good light FOR THAT CORAL. Bubble thinks good light is low light. Palys agree. So do many mushrooms. Some leathers are happy with low light---many, in fact.
Water: first, if you want corals, use ro/di. The phosphate that comes in with conditioned tap is brutal, and you'll always be struggling with algae. Corals and algae don't get along well. They compete for light: exception: using a fuge---if you have a large [40% of tank volume] fuge, you can get rid of a lot of phosphate that way, and your macro algae there [I recommend cheato!] does not get near your corals to rob them of light, but still---a fuge does not take up enough phosphate to keep up with tap water. Added bennie of a fuge: pods. Some corals will eat them.

Don't forget the used equipment forum: you can clean used equipment with white vinegar and just wipe it down. Sparkling clean after running a small maxjet in it for just 24 hours.

AND let's talk corals: easy starter stonies: euphylia---ie, hammer, frogspawn, torch. They can touch each other---though some torches may be too hot for comfort. Lowlight stony: bubble coral.

Easy starter softies: leathers, shrooms, zoas. All low to moderate light: do not mix with stonies---chemical warfare.

Easy starter sps: montiporas, either digitata form or plating form. Come in many colors: do like light. If you have the highest output fluorescents or mh you can do these.

Water quality: the large polyp stonies like torch [lps] and frog demand you keep an alk of 8.3-9.3, and a calcium level of 400-450, a ph of 7.9-8.3, and a fairly stable temp ranging from 75-82 degrees, with as small a day night swing as you can manage.

Softies less fussy about calcium, which is hard to keep elevated, BUT they really get annoyed about an alkalinity swinging up and down. They also want the temp stability.

The fancier the stony, the narrower the water chemistry range it will tolerate. The very fussy acropora [colored sticks] want the best light, quite intense light, water without phosphates, water without very much 'food' in it at all: they consume light, and grow by sucking in quite a lot of calcium, using up buffer and magnesium, a little strontium, to hit a growth rate of about half an inch a month. The tiny frags of this stuff can sit not growing for months, and then all of a sudden overgrow their bases [first sign they're about to take off] and then take off at their growth tips, growing and branching. They're a challenge, they require patience and a lot of equipment, ultimately: a really packed show tank like you see in the Tank of the Month feature may have a big fuge, a kalk reactor AND a calcium reactor pumping calcium in at a fierce rate. If an sps tank is doing well, it's glorious, and with all those branches growing at once, it's amazingly fast in changes. If one goes bad, it can go bad overnight. They take either experience or a lot of study or both.

If you ultimately want to get into the sps stonies, don't start with leathers: start with the lps stonies, which are compatible with the sps, and you can get your feet wet by keeping a few sps and see how you do, and learn what's good and bad with them.

If you want to go toward the colored mushrooms and leathers, you don't need the big lights, but increasing fussiness with water quality won't hurt: just the softies like 'food rich' water, like to scarf up leavings and poo from fishes, and generally grow fairly fast when happy.

[rbtwo4]

So which one would u recommend?