Cabinet makers or skilled work worker opinion needed on DIY stand design.....

nanoguy · 08/15/2007, 02:24 AM

I just purchased an Elos 70 and I'm in the early stages of planning out my DIY stand. I am shooting for something that is contemporary looking and will match the decor of my home. The tank is a 55 gallon glass and measures 29.5"x22.5"x19.5". Here is a rough photoshop sketch of my stand design. You can see that there is actually two parts of to this stand which I will call the top and the base.

Some info on the stand design.......
For the doors I will be using two doors (15"x30" each). It is constructed out of black glass with an aluminum trim. The stand will sit on four 4" tall aluminum colored legs with a 2" diameter that can support 600 lbs of vertical weight each. The stand base dimensions will measure 30"x22.5"x30" tall (not including the 4" height of the legs). If you look at the pic you can see that there is a seperate section that the tank actually sits on. I will construct the top portion with 2x4 frame and then wrap it in 3/4" plywood. It will be seperated from the base of the stand by a slightly smaller 1"x1" frame with reinforced center. The stand will be stained a dark espresso color and finished off with semi gloss polyurethane. The total height of the stand and tank will sit roughly 60" tall.

My original intentions were to construct a 2x4 frame for the base of the stand and then wrap it in 3/4" plywood but when I was looking at a bunch of your standard stands that you purchase at aquarium stores none of them use any type of framing. I'm guessing that they just use a laminated MDF and join them together with a biscuit joiner, glue, and reinforced with some screws.

So here's my question.....finally...

I want to maximize every inch of space I can gather in the stand so I want to eliminate the 2x4 frame. If I use 3/4" plywood joined together with a biscuit joiner, glue, and screws would that be enough to support the weight of the tank? I'm thinking that I would have to some how reinforce the corners and top of the inside of the stand with something to be safe. Any suggestions on how I should accomplish this?

Donw · 08/15/2007, 07:30 AM

If you build this out of 3/4 ply using typical woodworking joinery you will have no problem holding the weight of a 55g aquarium. I would not use biscuts and screws. I would be sure to use a good waterproof glue. There are a few and each has its own place. TB3, Poly and Urac 185 are my favorites with urac 185 being the most used of all.

Don

burblerboy · 08/15/2007, 07:57 AM

Isn't plain old Elmers Carpenters glue waterproof? I know it's plenty strong especially if reinforced with screws, which are really only necessary while the glue sets if you have proper joints. I used to work in a car stereo shop building custom speaker boxes and I can tell you the glue is stronger than the wood. some of the real big woofers driven with a lot of power would blow the boxes apart (3/4" MDF) and it was always the wood not the glue.

Donw · 08/15/2007, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by burblerboy
Isn't plain old Elmers Carpenters glue waterproof?

boxes apart (3/4" MDF) and it was always the wood not the glue.

No, its definatly not waterproof.

Don

Chrsnwk · 08/15/2007, 08:46 AM

Elmer's is not waterproof, not even remotely.

I'd go with a 5 sided plywood box for the bottom, with the doors making up the 6th side. i'd double the thickness on the bottom since your legs seem inboard of the corners a bit, and I'd add a support beam, plywood is fine (and potentially better looking), as is a 2x4, inside the top of the black cabinet behind the doors as a bit of extra support. Also, when constructing it, be sure the top of the black cabinet sit on top of the sides, not suspended beween them.

Just my $.02

Good Luck !

mountaindew · 08/15/2007, 08:49 AM

Any normal cabinet construction methods will hold a 55 gal tank, but you might want to watch those legs at bottom. all weight will be transfered to them and so the bottom of the cabinet will have to be very stong at those points. plus your floor may also have a problem with that weight point loaded in small areas!

jstraka1 · 08/15/2007, 08:51 AM

I would do what Chrsnwk suggests, he makes some good points. To add, I would construct the carcass using Dadoes and rabbits. They add a huge amount of strenghth and rigidity.

nanoguy · 08/15/2007, 11:40 AM

Thanks for all the great info and ideas everyone. I will definitely double up the top and bottom for the extra support. I will have to look into how to create dadoes and rabbit joints as I am unsure of what they are. I will post a build forum once I start the project.

nanoguy · 08/15/2007, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Donw
If you build this out of 3/4 ply using typical woodworking joinery you will have no problem holding the weight of a 55g aquarium. I would not use biscuts and screws. I would be sure to use a good waterproof glue. There are a few and each has its own place. TB3, Poly and Urac 185 are my favorites with urac 185 being the most used of all.

Don

Don.....would I be able to get the Urac 185 glue at Home Depot or Lowes?

burblerboy · 08/15/2007, 11:52 AM

I know the regular white stuff isn't waterproof, but I thought the carpenters wood stuff was.
They also do have a waterproof wood glue #E742.

Donw · 08/15/2007, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nanoguy
Don.....would I be able to get the Urac 185 glue at Home Depot or Lowes?

No I'm afraid not. I get it at nelsonpaint.com Weldwood also makes a resin adhesive but Ive never used it so I cant attest for the quality. Ive used urac for years and am sort of stuck in my ways. Tb3 is water resistant and works well with hardwood but I dont like using it on ply endgrain but there are many cabinet shops that dont seem to mind.

Don

cannarella · 08/15/2007, 01:10 PM

Jimmy, all these are good ideas. Gorilla glue or Tite Bond III are also waterproof and available at Lowes or HD. Here is a good explanitation of woodworking joints. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodworking_joints Basically rabbits are grooves run along an edge of the stock and a dado is one that runs through the field (not along the edge).

With good fitting rabbits and dados and good glue the fasteners needed will be minimal.

Good luck.

Andy

nanoguy · 08/15/2007, 02:00 PM

I've attached another pic of the joint I think you guys are teling me to use. Is this how it should be setup? My buddy has a dado blade that he's going to lend me so it will make things easier.....too bad he's never used it before.

Andy....I live about 1/2 mile from Lowes and will heading down today to check out the glue.

Donw · 08/15/2007, 02:19 PM

Id move the bottom panel up a little and set it in a dado. This will keep those feet from looking funny from across the room. Also push the back in 3/4" so it can sit in dado. Then dado the back panel to accept the floor panel.

Make sense? Like this, well sort of anyways.

cannarella · 08/15/2007, 03:05 PM

Do you have a saw that can run it? You will need minimum a contractor saw to run a heavy dado blade. You will also need to make a sacrificial fence to bury it in to get good rabbits. You don't want to try and make it right next to your regular fence with no gap.

That plan looks just fine for the location of the rabbits. I would also recommend recessing the back in a rabbit to eliminate racking.

If you stick with the legs I would put them out in the corners as much as possible and double up the bottom. You are already raising the center of gravity by putting on legs but you should be fine.

Oh, donâ€™t use MDF AT ALL. Find Baltic Birch or hardwood core plywood for best results. The more laminations in the plywood the better.

You are off to a good start.

nanoguy · 08/16/2007, 12:41 AM

Andy.........I'm going to take your advice and double up the bottom and the top with an extra piece of 3/4" plywood. I'm also going to run a 2x4 underneath the top piece on the base of the stand for extra support for the tank. I'm guessing this should be more then strong enough to support the tank. My doors are on special order and will not be in until late next week. I hope to start the build next weekend. Pic to come..........

nanoguy · 08/16/2007, 12:45 AM

Andy.........I'm going to take your advice and double up the bottom and the top with an extra piece of 3/4" plywood. I'm also going to run a 2x4 underneath the top piece as an extra precaution. I'm sure this will be more then strong enough to support the setup. My doors are on special order and will not be in until late next week. I hope to start the build next weekend. Pics to come.......... [/B][/QUOTE]

Donw.....I will definitely dado the back piece and the bottom piece to join them together. That's why I love this forum! Great advice when a fellow reefer is in need of help! Thanks guys!

cannarella · 08/16/2007, 07:51 AM

When you glue up those doubled up pieces of plywood have several 50lb bags of sand that you can put on top to evenly "clamp" the pieces together.

Also make sure where ever you place it to glue that it is flat. You don't want a bowed glue up. Garage floor us usually pretty flat. You can test this by using some sort of strait edge and check the area by making sure there is not crown of gap there.

Make each glue up over sized so you can trim it to the final dimension when they dry.

Good glue ups start with good stock. Make sure the plywood is perfectly flat.

08/15/2007, 02:24 AM	#1
nanoguy OG Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Bay Area, Ca Posts: 1,897	Cabinet makers or skilled work worker opinion needed on DIY stand design..... I just purchased an Elos 70 and I'm in the early stages of planning out my DIY stand. I am shooting for something that is contemporary looking and will match the decor of my home. The tank is a 55 gallon glass and measures 29.5"x22.5"x19.5". Here is a rough photoshop sketch of my stand design. You can see that there is actually two parts of to this stand which I will call the top and the base. Some info on the stand design....... For the doors I will be using two doors (15"x30" each). It is constructed out of black glass with an aluminum trim. The stand will sit on four 4" tall aluminum colored legs with a 2" diameter that can support 600 lbs of vertical weight each. The stand base dimensions will measure 30"x22.5"x30" tall (not including the 4" height of the legs). If you look at the pic you can see that there is a seperate section that the tank actually sits on. I will construct the top portion with 2x4 frame and then wrap it in 3/4" plywood. It will be seperated from the base of the stand by a slightly smaller 1"x1" frame with reinforced center. The stand will be stained a dark espresso color and finished off with semi gloss polyurethane. The total height of the stand and tank will sit roughly 60" tall. My original intentions were to construct a 2x4 frame for the base of the stand and then wrap it in 3/4" plywood but when I was looking at a bunch of your standard stands that you purchase at aquarium stores none of them use any type of framing. I'm guessing that they just use a laminated MDF and join them together with a biscuit joiner, glue, and reinforced with some screws. So here's my question.....finally... I want to maximize every inch of space I can gather in the stand so I want to eliminate the 2x4 frame. If I use 3/4" plywood joined together with a biscuit joiner, glue, and screws would that be enough to support the weight of the tank? I'm thinking that I would have to some how reinforce the corners and top of the inside of the stand with something to be safe. Any suggestions on how I should accomplish this? __________________ - JC

08/15/2007, 08:51 AM	#7
jstraka1 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Rose, New York Posts: 674	I would do what Chrsnwk suggests, he makes some good points. To add, I would construct the carcass using Dadoes and rabbits. They add a huge amount of strenghth and rigidity. __________________ Jason. Current Tank Info: 65 gallon clear, rectangular box of tropical marine paradise in my living room.

08/15/2007, 11:40 AM	#8
nanoguy OG Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Bay Area, Ca Posts: 1,897	Thanks for all the great info and ideas everyone. I will definitely double up the top and bottom for the extra support. I will have to look into how to create dadoes and rabbit joints as I am unsure of what they are. I will post a build forum once I start the project. __________________ - JC

08/15/2007, 11:52 AM	#10
burblerboy Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: plantation, fl Posts: 49	I know the regular white stuff isn't waterproof, but I thought the carpenters wood stuff was. They also do have a waterproof wood glue #E742. Last edited by burblerboy; 08/15/2007 at 12:00 PM.

08/15/2007, 01:10 PM	#12
cannarella Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Loganville, GA Posts: 935	Jimmy, all these are good ideas. Gorilla glue or Tite Bond III are also waterproof and available at Lowes or HD. Here is a good explanitation of woodworking joints. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodworking_joints Basically rabbits are grooves run along an edge of the stock and a dado is one that runs through the field (not along the edge). With good fitting rabbits and dados and good glue the fasteners needed will be minimal. Good luck. Andy __________________ If my phaser discharges off by as little as .06 terra watts, it would cause a cascading exothermal inversion. Current Tank Info: 65 Reef

08/15/2007, 07:30 AM	#2
Donw Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 2,334	If you build this out of 3/4 ply using typical woodworking joinery you will have no problem holding the weight of a 55g aquarium. I would not use biscuts and screws. I would be sure to use a good waterproof glue. There are a few and each has its own place. TB3, Poly and Urac 185 are my favorites with urac 185 being the most used of all. Don

08/15/2007, 07:57 AM	#3
burblerboy Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: plantation, fl Posts: 49	Isn't plain old Elmers Carpenters glue waterproof? I know it's plenty strong especially if reinforced with screws, which are really only necessary while the glue sets if you have proper joints. I used to work in a car stereo shop building custom speaker boxes and I can tell you the glue is stronger than the wood. some of the real big woofers driven with a lot of power would blow the boxes apart (3/4" MDF) and it was always the wood not the glue.

08/15/2007, 08:46 AM	#5
Chrsnwk Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Cheektowaga, NY Posts: 629	Elmer's is not waterproof, not even remotely. I'd go with a 5 sided plywood box for the bottom, with the doors making up the 6th side. i'd double the thickness on the bottom since your legs seem inboard of the corners a bit, and I'd add a support beam, plywood is fine (and potentially better looking), as is a 2x4, inside the top of the black cabinet behind the doors as a bit of extra support. Also, when constructing it, be sure the top of the black cabinet sit on top of the sides, not suspended beween them. Just my $.02 Good Luck !

08/15/2007, 08:49 AM	#6
mountaindew Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Pueblo, Colorado Posts: 98	Any normal cabinet construction methods will hold a 55 gal tank, but you might want to watch those legs at bottom. all weight will be transfered to them and so the bottom of the cabinet will have to be very stong at those points. plus your floor may also have a problem with that weight point loaded in small areas!

08/15/2007, 02:00 PM	#13
nanoguy OG Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Bay Area, Ca Posts: 1,897	I've attached another pic of the joint I think you guys are teling me to use. Is this how it should be setup? My buddy has a dado blade that he's going to lend me so it will make things easier.....too bad he's never used it before. Andy....I live about 1/2 mile from Lowes and will heading down today to check out the glue. __________________ - JC Last edited by nanoguy; 08/15/2007 at 02:11 PM.

08/15/2007, 02:19 PM	#14
Donw Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 2,334	Id move the bottom panel up a little and set it in a dado. This will keep those feet from looking funny from across the room. Also push the back in 3/4" so it can sit in dado. Then dado the back panel to accept the floor panel. Make sense? Like this, well sort of anyways.

08/15/2007, 03:05 PM	#15
cannarella Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Loganville, GA Posts: 935	Do you have a saw that can run it? You will need minimum a contractor saw to run a heavy dado blade. You will also need to make a sacrificial fence to bury it in to get good rabbits. You don't want to try and make it right next to your regular fence with no gap. That plan looks just fine for the location of the rabbits. I would also recommend recessing the back in a rabbit to eliminate racking. If you stick with the legs I would put them out in the corners as much as possible and double up the bottom. You are already raising the center of gravity by putting on legs but you should be fine. Oh, donâ€™t use MDF AT ALL. Find Baltic Birch or hardwood core plywood for best results. The more laminations in the plywood the better. You are off to a good start. __________________ If my phaser discharges off by as little as .06 terra watts, it would cause a cascading exothermal inversion. Current Tank Info: 65 Reef

08/16/2007, 12:41 AM	#16
nanoguy OG Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Bay Area, Ca Posts: 1,897	Andy.........I'm going to take your advice and double up the bottom and the top with an extra piece of 3/4" plywood. I'm also going to run a 2x4 underneath the top piece on the base of the stand for extra support for the tank. I'm guessing this should be more then strong enough to support the tank. My doors are on special order and will not be in until late next week. I hope to start the build next weekend. Pic to come.......... __________________ - JC

08/16/2007, 12:45 AM	#17
nanoguy OG Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Bay Area, Ca Posts: 1,897	Andy.........I'm going to take your advice and double up the bottom and the top with an extra piece of 3/4" plywood. I'm also going to run a 2x4 underneath the top piece as an extra precaution. I'm sure this will be more then strong enough to support the setup. My doors are on special order and will not be in until late next week. I hope to start the build next weekend. Pics to come.......... [/B][/QUOTE] Donw.....I will definitely dado the back piece and the bottom piece to join them together. That's why I love this forum! Great advice when a fellow reefer is in need of help! Thanks guys! __________________ - JC

08/16/2007, 07:51 AM	#18
cannarella Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Loganville, GA Posts: 935	When you glue up those doubled up pieces of plywood have several 50lb bags of sand that you can put on top to evenly "clamp" the pieces together. Also make sure where ever you place it to glue that it is flat. You don't want a bowed glue up. Garage floor us usually pretty flat. You can test this by using some sort of strait edge and check the area by making sure there is not crown of gap there. Make each glue up over sized so you can trim it to the final dimension when they dry. Good glue ups start with good stock. Make sure the plywood is perfectly flat. __________________ If my phaser discharges off by as little as .06 terra watts, it would cause a cascading exothermal inversion. Current Tank Info: 65 Reef