Stupid, stupid question...

Chibils · 08/18/2007, 08:44 AM

This is my first reef tank, and I'm going for the Teks. What exactly is the difference between these two products, other than the fact that one is a retro and the other looks like it's pendant?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Tek-Light-T5-Hig...QQcmdZViewItem
http://www.aquacave.com/detail.aspx?ID=695

Is the only difference the lamps themselves? The retro kit doesn't have them if I can read (and I think I can D

... So where can I buy a non-pendant tek setup?

Thanks a million.

d4a2n0k · 08/18/2007, 09:10 AM

The one from Ebay is the 4 x 54w Tek fixture which is a finished fixture. You can hang it from the ceiling with a mounting kit or use legs that they sell to mount it on the aquarium. The one from AquaCave is a 2 x 54w retrofit which will need to be built into a canopy that you buy or make yourself. Neither come with bulbs, according to the descriptions. They use the same reflectors but one has 4 bulbs and the other has 2.

I shop at Reefgeek.com and Premiumaquatics.com for my T-5 stuff but havent heard anything bad about AquaCave, just dont have first hand experience with them.

Reef Geek seem to have the best choice of T-5 bulbs.

d4a2n0k · 08/18/2007, 09:12 AM

Another thing, if you want the best reflectors and will be going with a retrofit setup, go with the IceCap SLR retrofits. Both Reef Geek and Premium Aquatics sell these setups.

The Ice Cap SLR reflectors outperform the Tek reflectors.

Chibils · 08/18/2007, 09:19 PM

So if I understand you correctly, they're both working setups, but both are mounted differently?

If that's true, that helps me out a ton.

Now, into the dirty details: Tek2 retro kit with icecap reflectors, or an icecap retro kit? How about the same for Sunlight Maristars? I don't know anything about Sunlight, except that I've heard good things. Which of the above combos will give me the best output for less than (or maybe a teensy bit over) $300?
Next: 2x54w vho or 4x54w ho? I don't know what the difference is between ho and vho other than the word "very" and $50.

Chibils · 08/18/2007, 10:16 PM

ttt

markandkristen · 08/18/2007, 10:36 PM

vho is t12 while t5s are ho the 54 watters is the highest output for the 48" t5s

i have used the 2x54 watt settups for actinic supplemention.

i personally like that setup the tek is awesome. i bought mine at hellolights. and sometimes you can get their brand of bulbs.

Chibils · 08/18/2007, 10:50 PM

So am I better off with 4x54w (T5) or 2x54w (T12)? And do I want Tek2 or IceCap? Obviously, I get twice the wattage from the T5s (4x54=216, 2x54=108) according to the retro kit; I still don't see the advantage to the T12.

Chibils · 08/18/2007, 11:25 PM

ttt (again)

(sorry D: )

markandkristen · 08/18/2007, 11:32 PM

t12 is 110 watt vho bulbs

i like them for supplementation of actinics they dont require reflectors because they are built in.

you can use two of the 2x54 waters and get the same results at the 4x54 watters
the one on ebay just has a sleaker look and can be used without a canopy.

i would recommend at least 4 of the 54 watters.

it also depends on your tank size.

alot of people like t5s and with the reflectors you are about the same as a vho bulb which is 110 watts.

the only thing in my opinion is vho has better actinics ( blue bulb that make corals pop out or neon looking)

markandkristen · 08/18/2007, 11:34 PM

if you can list what your wanting to keep as far as coral
softies , lps or sps

and the size of your tank.

with a canopy or not.

Chibils · 08/19/2007, 08:38 AM

Right now, I'm just looking at things like hammer, frogspawn, kenya tree, yellow polyps... Relatively "easy" stuff. But I know that some day I'll want more and more light-loving corals and don't want to have to replace $250 lights.

My tank is a 55G, and I'm going to retrofit the lights into the canopy.

I'm going to go with the t12, I think, but do I want Tek or IceCap?

DarG · 08/19/2007, 09:44 AM

Dont go with T-12 VHO before you research more about the T5's . Well actually, do what you want but heres the thing. With the T5s and reflectors you get more light for less electricity used and less heat generated.
The variety of bulbs and bulb colors is much superior.
The penetration of of the light and the spread is superior because of the reflectors used with T5's.
T5 in and of itself has more par than VHO per watt. Around 70 lumens per watt for VHO and 90 for T5. That doesnt make T5 superior enough to make up for the wattage differences in and of itself (110 watt vs. 54 for the 4 foot lamps), but with the reflectors that are used with T5, T5 easily becomes the more efficient/effective lighting option.

Plus, T5 can be overdriven on IceCap ballasts for 80 - 85 watts instead of 54 watts for a 48" 54 watt bulb.

The only concensus agreement on VHO's superiority is with the Super actinic bulbs. VHO wins there. But thats only with the 420nm bulbs and T5 is improving there. Plus a UVL T5 super actinic on an IceCap ballast is very close IME. I had the option of both on my new light rack, I tried both. I stayed with the T5 because the output appeared superior with the overdriven T5 super actinic.

I ran T12 VHO for 10+ years. Switching to T5 was a lighting revelation to me. Do some more research. Talk with Hahnmeister here on RC.

DarG · 08/19/2007, 09:45 AM

Dont go with T-12 VHO before you research more about the T5's . Well actually, do what you want but heres the thing. With the T5s and reflectors you get more light for less electricity used and less heat generated.
The variety of bulbs and bulb colors is much superior.
The penetration of of the light and the spread is superior because of the reflectors used with T5's.
T5 in and of itself has more par than VHO per watt. Around 70 lumens per watt for VHO and 90 for T5. That doesnt make T5 superior enough to make up for the wattage differences in and of itself (110 watt vs. 54 for the 4 foot lamps), but with the reflectors that are used with T5, T5 easily becomes the more efficient/effective lighting option.

Plus, T5 can be overdriven on IceCap ballasts for 80 - 85 watts instead of 54 watts for a 48" 54 watt bulb.

The only concensus agreement on VHO's superiority is with the Super actinic bulbs. VHO wins there. But thats only with the 420nm bulbs and T5 is improving there. Plus a UVL T5 super actinic on an IceCap ballast is very close IME. I had the option of either on my new light rack, I tried both. I stayed with the T5 because the output appeared superior with the overdriven T5 super actinic.

I ran T12 VHO for 10+ years. Switching to T5 was a lighting revelation to me. Do some more research. Talk with Hahnmeister here on RC.

Chibils · 08/19/2007, 11:37 AM

Okay, since you had a more full-bodied argument that was more legible (thus I could actually understand it

), I've decided to go back to T5s.

Is this reefgeek retro kit a complete IceCap setup for mounting on my canopy?

Chibils · 08/19/2007, 12:15 PM

One last bump for a definitive answer before I place my order.

Thanks a TON for your help guys.

DarG · 08/19/2007, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chibils
Okay, since you had a more full-bodied argument that was more legible (thus I could actually understand it ), I've decided to go back to T5s.

Is this reefgeek retro kit a complete IceCap setup for mounting on my canopy?

That is the setup with the icecap reflectors and the standard ballasts that will run the bulbs at 54 watts each. If you want the overdriven setup with IceCap ballast, it is, I believe 60 dollars more and on that same page. The IceCap ballast will run the bulbs at 80 - 85 watts each. Only additional requirement is that it does require a little bit more aggresive fan cooling if you are going to overdrive the lamps.

So, the one you linked ... complete set-up, 54 watt per bulbs ballast. SLR reflectors.

If you want 80 watts per bulbs, fine the same retro with the ice cap ballasts on that page.

Chibils · 08/19/2007, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DarG
That is the setup with the icecap reflectors and the standard ballasts that will run the bulbs at 54 watts each. If you want the overdriven setup with IceCap ballast, it is, I believe 60 dollars more and on that same page. The IceCap ballast will run the bulbs at 80 - 85 watts each. Only additional requirement is that it does require a little bit more aggresive fan cooling if you are going to overdrive the lamps.

So, the one you linked ... complete set-up, 54 watt per bulbs ballast. SLR reflectors.

If you want 80 watts per bulbs, fine the same retro with the ice cap ballasts on that page.

Are you referring to this one? It's only the 2x, but $360 is just too much.

DarG · 08/19/2007, 04:09 PM

No, this one ...

http://www.reefgeek.com/lighting/T5_...Retrofit_Kit_w!_Bulbs_by_IceCap

Copy and paste the link.

It's 4 bulbs, not the 2 bulbs. And it's not the TEK retro. Its the IceCap.

Anyway, if 360 is too much go with the first one you linked.

markandkristen · 08/19/2007, 05:55 PM

if it were me i would do a 6bulb tek retrofit 3 of the second url you showed this would allow you to do more bulbs and offer a great viewing.
only changing the bulbs every 12 months.
one problem your going to have with a icecap is replacing the bulbs more often. prob. every 6 months.

i only mentioned vho because you were trying to figure out the difference between the two.

another problem your going to have is asthetics. its hard to see what bulbs look like without viewing them in person.

i always recommend seeing what other people are running in local forums near you. some people love the look of vhos and hate t5s and vise versa some hate vhos and love t5s.

i saw a 120 gallon with the tek6 bulb setup and was totally impressed. he was able to get a wide spectrum of bulbs that brought out the colors of his lps and softies.

DarG · 08/19/2007, 06:22 PM

You shouldnt have to change overdriven T5's every 6 months unless they are not being adequately cooled. I have an open rack and two six inch fans plus the guts of a large cross flow fan cooling the bulbs. I bet I lose no more than 30% of bulb life from overdriving the T5's.

That said, I agree completely that if you have the room and could afford it, 6 bulbs would be nice and I wouldnt overdrive them.
I dont think there is any reason to overdrive T5's unless you dont have enough space to run enough HO run bulbs to get enough light or if you need the extra punch for depth penetration.
I can also see it if money is an issue and going with less, overdriven bulbs is easier on the wallet up front.
Unless I'm missing something, that is.

However, I would not go with the TEK reflectors over the SLR's.

08/18/2007, 08:44 AM	#1
Chibils halide loyalist Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sugar Hill, GA Posts: 2,213	Stupid, stupid question... This is my first reef tank, and I'm going for the Teks. What exactly is the difference between these two products, other than the fact that one is a retro and the other looks like it's pendant? http://cgi.ebay.com/Tek-Light-T5-Hig...QQcmdZViewItem http://www.aquacave.com/detail.aspx?ID=695 Is the only difference the lamps themselves? The retro kit doesn't have them if I can read (and I think I can D... So where can I buy a non-pendant tek setup? Thanks a million.

08/18/2007, 09:19 PM	#4
Chibils halide loyalist Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sugar Hill, GA Posts: 2,213	So if I understand you correctly, they're both working setups, but both are mounted differently? If that's true, that helps me out a ton. Now, into the dirty details: Tek2 retro kit with icecap reflectors, or an icecap retro kit? How about the same for Sunlight Maristars? I don't know anything about Sunlight, except that I've heard good things. Which of the above combos will give me the best output for less than (or maybe a teensy bit over) $300? Next: 2x54w vho or 4x54w ho? I don't know what the difference is between ho and vho other than the word "very" and $50. __________________ always learning Current Tank Info: 75G new world cichlid, 25G reef in planning Last edited by Chibils; 08/18/2007 at 09:28 PM.

08/18/2007, 10:16 PM	#5
Chibils halide loyalist Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sugar Hill, GA Posts: 2,213	ttt __________________ always learning Current Tank Info: 75G new world cichlid, 25G reef in planning

08/18/2007, 10:50 PM	#7
Chibils halide loyalist Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sugar Hill, GA Posts: 2,213	So am I better off with 4x54w (T5) or 2x54w (T12)? And do I want Tek2 or IceCap? Obviously, I get twice the wattage from the T5s (4x54=216, 2x54=108) according to the retro kit; I still don't see the advantage to the T12. __________________ always learning Current Tank Info: 75G new world cichlid, 25G reef in planning

08/18/2007, 11:25 PM	#8
Chibils halide loyalist Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sugar Hill, GA Posts: 2,213	ttt (again) (sorry D: ) __________________ always learning Current Tank Info: 75G new world cichlid, 25G reef in planning

08/18/2007, 09:10 AM	#2
d4a2n0k Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 2,485	The one from Ebay is the 4 x 54w Tek fixture which is a finished fixture. You can hang it from the ceiling with a mounting kit or use legs that they sell to mount it on the aquarium. The one from AquaCave is a 2 x 54w retrofit which will need to be built into a canopy that you buy or make yourself. Neither come with bulbs, according to the descriptions. They use the same reflectors but one has 4 bulbs and the other has 2. I shop at Reefgeek.com and Premiumaquatics.com for my T-5 stuff but havent heard anything bad about AquaCave, just dont have first hand experience with them. Reef Geek seem to have the best choice of T-5 bulbs.

08/18/2007, 09:12 AM	#3
d4a2n0k Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 2,485	Another thing, if you want the best reflectors and will be going with a retrofit setup, go with the IceCap SLR retrofits. Both Reef Geek and Premium Aquatics sell these setups. The Ice Cap SLR reflectors outperform the Tek reflectors.

08/18/2007, 10:36 PM	#6
markandkristen Moved On Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Winterhaven, fl Posts: 4,081	vho is t12 while t5s are ho the 54 watters is the highest output for the 48" t5s i have used the 2x54 watt settups for actinic supplemention. i personally like that setup the tek is awesome. i bought mine at hellolights. and sometimes you can get their brand of bulbs.

08/18/2007, 11:32 PM	#9
markandkristen Moved On Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Winterhaven, fl Posts: 4,081	t12 is 110 watt vho bulbs i like them for supplementation of actinics they dont require reflectors because they are built in. you can use two of the 2x54 waters and get the same results at the 4x54 watters the one on ebay just has a sleaker look and can be used without a canopy. i would recommend at least 4 of the 54 watters. it also depends on your tank size. alot of people like t5s and with the reflectors you are about the same as a vho bulb which is 110 watts. the only thing in my opinion is vho has better actinics ( blue bulb that make corals pop out or neon looking)

08/18/2007, 11:34 PM	#10
markandkristen Moved On Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Winterhaven, fl Posts: 4,081	if you can list what your wanting to keep as far as coral softies , lps or sps and the size of your tank. with a canopy or not.

08/19/2007, 08:38 AM	#11
Chibils halide loyalist Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sugar Hill, GA Posts: 2,213	Right now, I'm just looking at things like hammer, frogspawn, kenya tree, yellow polyps... Relatively "easy" stuff. But I know that some day I'll want more and more light-loving corals and don't want to have to replace $250 lights. My tank is a 55G, and I'm going to retrofit the lights into the canopy. I'm going to go with the t12, I think, but do I want Tek or IceCap? __________________ always learning Current Tank Info: 75G new world cichlid, 25G reef in planning

08/19/2007, 09:44 AM	#12
DarG Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,515	Dont go with T-12 VHO before you research more about the T5's . Well actually, do what you want but heres the thing. With the T5s and reflectors you get more light for less electricity used and less heat generated. The variety of bulbs and bulb colors is much superior. The penetration of of the light and the spread is superior because of the reflectors used with T5's. T5 in and of itself has more par than VHO per watt. Around 70 lumens per watt for VHO and 90 for T5. That doesnt make T5 superior enough to make up for the wattage differences in and of itself (110 watt vs. 54 for the 4 foot lamps), but with the reflectors that are used with T5, T5 easily becomes the more efficient/effective lighting option. Plus, T5 can be overdriven on IceCap ballasts for 80 - 85 watts instead of 54 watts for a 48" 54 watt bulb. The only concensus agreement on VHO's superiority is with the Super actinic bulbs. VHO wins there. But thats only with the 420nm bulbs and T5 is improving there. Plus a UVL T5 super actinic on an IceCap ballast is very close IME. I had the option of both on my new light rack, I tried both. I stayed with the T5 because the output appeared superior with the overdriven T5 super actinic. I ran T12 VHO for 10+ years. Switching to T5 was a lighting revelation to me. Do some more research. Talk with Hahnmeister here on RC.

08/19/2007, 09:45 AM	#13
DarG Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,515	Dont go with T-12 VHO before you research more about the T5's . Well actually, do what you want but heres the thing. With the T5s and reflectors you get more light for less electricity used and less heat generated. The variety of bulbs and bulb colors is much superior. The penetration of of the light and the spread is superior because of the reflectors used with T5's. T5 in and of itself has more par than VHO per watt. Around 70 lumens per watt for VHO and 90 for T5. That doesnt make T5 superior enough to make up for the wattage differences in and of itself (110 watt vs. 54 for the 4 foot lamps), but with the reflectors that are used with T5, T5 easily becomes the more efficient/effective lighting option. Plus, T5 can be overdriven on IceCap ballasts for 80 - 85 watts instead of 54 watts for a 48" 54 watt bulb. The only concensus agreement on VHO's superiority is with the Super actinic bulbs. VHO wins there. But thats only with the 420nm bulbs and T5 is improving there. Plus a UVL T5 super actinic on an IceCap ballast is very close IME. I had the option of either on my new light rack, I tried both. I stayed with the T5 because the output appeared superior with the overdriven T5 super actinic. I ran T12 VHO for 10+ years. Switching to T5 was a lighting revelation to me. Do some more research. Talk with Hahnmeister here on RC.

08/19/2007, 11:37 AM	#14
Chibils halide loyalist Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sugar Hill, GA Posts: 2,213	Okay, since you had a more full-bodied argument that was more legible (thus I could actually understand it ), I've decided to go back to T5s. Is this reefgeek retro kit a complete IceCap setup for mounting on my canopy? __________________ always learning Current Tank Info: 75G new world cichlid, 25G reef in planning

08/19/2007, 12:15 PM	#15
Chibils halide loyalist Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sugar Hill, GA Posts: 2,213	One last bump for a definitive answer before I place my order. Thanks a TON for your help guys. __________________ always learning Current Tank Info: 75G new world cichlid, 25G reef in planning

08/19/2007, 04:09 PM	#18
DarG Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,515	No, this one ... http://www.reefgeek.com/lighting/T5_...Retrofit_Kit_w!_Bulbs_by_IceCap Copy and paste the link. It's 4 bulbs, not the 2 bulbs. And it's not the TEK retro. Its the IceCap. Anyway, if 360 is too much go with the first one you linked.

08/19/2007, 05:55 PM	#19
markandkristen Moved On Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Winterhaven, fl Posts: 4,081	if it were me i would do a 6bulb tek retrofit 3 of the second url you showed this would allow you to do more bulbs and offer a great viewing. only changing the bulbs every 12 months. one problem your going to have with a icecap is replacing the bulbs more often. prob. every 6 months. i only mentioned vho because you were trying to figure out the difference between the two. another problem your going to have is asthetics. its hard to see what bulbs look like without viewing them in person. i always recommend seeing what other people are running in local forums near you. some people love the look of vhos and hate t5s and vise versa some hate vhos and love t5s. i saw a 120 gallon with the tek6 bulb setup and was totally impressed. he was able to get a wide spectrum of bulbs that brought out the colors of his lps and softies.

08/19/2007, 06:22 PM	#20
DarG Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,515	You shouldnt have to change overdriven T5's every 6 months unless they are not being adequately cooled. I have an open rack and two six inch fans plus the guts of a large cross flow fan cooling the bulbs. I bet I lose no more than 30% of bulb life from overdriving the T5's. That said, I agree completely that if you have the room and could afford it, 6 bulbs would be nice and I wouldnt overdrive them. I dont think there is any reason to overdrive T5's unless you dont have enough space to run enough HO run bulbs to get enough light or if you need the extra punch for depth penetration. I can also see it if money is an issue and going with less, overdriven bulbs is easier on the wallet up front. Unless I'm missing something, that is. However, I would not go with the TEK reflectors over the SLR's.