Lets see the tanks running with no skimmers.....

[agoutihead]

Alright most of you and all of my friends who are in the hobby, disgree that you can run a successful tank without a skimmer.

And I'm not talking sps, I'm talking most about softies/lps tanks.

I have myself, personally ran a 55 with no skimmer for almost three years.

Did I lose corals over the years? Yes, but honestly I attribute it more to me not ever doing a water change. I would literally do one maybe every 6 months. Alot of it had to do with personal life problems I had that made me neglect that tank.

I think that if I do water changes every 2 weeks and run carbon, I will in fact have a succesful softie/lps tank.

This new tank (the 40 breeder I setup recently) also has an ATO to keep my water levels as stable as possible, which I think is a big factor in alot of the life span of corals.

Can anyone atest this as well?

How long has your tank been up? What is your maintence schedule like?

Post pictures if you have them.

[agoutihead]

wow...

not a single one?

I know of one other guy on here for sure, I forget his name.

But is that really it? Is it that frowned upon in the hobby that no one even wants to attempt going down that route?

[agoutihead]

Ahh the biocubes.

Many people have these nano's and biocubes, and most of them don't have skimmers, like my buddy who has a 6 gallon.

Yet I have seen these little nano's flurish better than most peoples reef tanks.

sure they have various media in the back chambers, but nothing is actually getting removed from the water.

So how do you skimmer fanatics explain this on?

Quite interesting.

[davocean]

It's like, why?
Too me it's like saying who raises kids w/ no med insurance or college fund or something.
Sure, you can get by, and pull it off, but I'm not gonna wave a flag encouraging lazy/cheap/lower standard reef keeping habits.
I want to provide the best habitat possible, so my critters are healthy/happy.

[agoutihead]

Well referring to softies/lps, it is well known they generally like "dirtier" water.

So if your giving them something they like better, how is that lazy, cheap and making them live in lower standards?

It's not about money and it's not really about work. If were spending thousands to put a tank together, whats an extra $150 for a skimmer? No, money has nothing to do with it.

And as far as being lazy, the most you have to do with a skimmer is empty the collection cup every X amount of days. You put more work into that on a daily basis than what you would with a skimmer once every week or two. So once again no, I don't think laziness has anything to do with it.

You are aware that skimming also pulls out beneficial organisms like phytoplankton and various bacteria correct?

Once again, someone then explain to me why these nano's are so popular and turn out so well "most of the time" with no skimmer?

[LobsterOfJustice]

Agreed.

If you want to run skimmerless, it should be because you have an interest in setting up a balanced ecosystem with other methods of nutrient export. Not because you are cheap or lazy. Properly setting up a skimmerless tank is much harder than having a skimmer.

[Travis L. Stevens]

Originally posted by LobsterOfJustice
Agreed.

If you want to run skimmerless, it should be because you have an interest in setting up a balanced ecosystem with other methods of nutrient export. Not because you are cheap or lazy. Properly setting up a skimmerless tank is much harder than having a skimmer.

I agree, but in certain cases, finances is also a problem. Even though it is harder to set up a balanced skimmerless aquarium, it is definitely cheaper. FWIW, my 29g is skimmerless for 2.5 years, and grows all corals.

[agoutihead]

Ahh correct L.O.J.

Having a fuge is one of the key factors in not running a skimmer I think. You are able to have additional live rock, sand and most importantly various seaweeds.

I'm keep some chaeto in my fuge now. I don't know if I will add any other kinds in the future, perhaps that grape seaweed I have seen. I'm not sure if it's good or bad yet though.

I am also going to run at least carbon. I'm not sure if I am going to run it all the time and change it every X amount of weeks, or if I am going to just run it occasionally every X amount of days. I have more research to do on it.

[agoutihead]

Ahh there is the other guy!

Finances was definitely not one of the reasons I decided to go without a skimmer. and trying to impress everyone and rub it in peoples face that I was successful is also not on my agenda.

I have done alot of research and experienced enough in my days that I have come to the conclusion it COULD work well this way. Obviously I won't know until 6-12 months.

But I think things like starfish and softies, clams could do much better if all of these microscopic organisms are left in the tank.

I mean, maybe that's why we can't keep blue linckias, maybe we put them in tanks that generally are skimmed too much and take the essential parts of the ecosystem they need?

Hey, its a hypothesis.

[davocean]

I guess I'm going off your first post, admitting you lost corals because you never did water changes, I'm sorry but I see that as lazy(I understand personal probs)
I understand nano's and such are difficult to add skimmers, and that can kinda trap you into being skimmerless.
It's just a peeve of mine seeing threads like"how little can I get by with"
Or the"no way am I spending that kinda $$ on a skimmer" threads I see all too often.
I have seen nice tanks w/ out, but those people are extremely dilligent in upkeep/WC's.

[agoutihead]

I agree with you 100% on the water changes. I bet if I would have done water changes every 2 weeks on my other tank and fed it regularly, it would have been a whole different story.

But honestly I was so depressed with life, i didn't care if things died or lived.

Things in life are a 180 for the most part, and I have set my tank up much more maintenance free, that this time around, I can't see myself not being successful.

[Travis L. Stevens]

davocean, actually money was a huge factor, but I took the extra initiative to find out how to do it without a skimmer. My only answer is good maintenance and water changes. I'm positive I could take my refugium out of the system with little effect. i can barely grow algae in it anyways.

As far as your comment goes:

It's like, why?
Too me it's like saying who raises kids w/ no med insurance or college fund or something.
Sure, you can get by, and pull it off, but I'm not gonna wave a flag encouraging lazy/cheap/lower standard reef keeping habits.
I want to provide the best habitat possible, so my critters are healthy/happy.

I only agree if you change your view about it from "skimmers" to "water changes and maintenance". The analogy would be dead on for my opinion. You can raise kids just fine with or without "skimmers" according to your anaolgy, but you can't raise children without proper "love and care" (Maintenance) and "fresh air, food, and water" (Water Changes).

[kiknchikn]

My skimmerless 20L + 5g fuge has been up for over a year now with minimal losses (only lost some zoos, a few baby shrooms, a birds nest and a fungia that I can remember). I'm keeping mostly softies, shrooms, and LPS corals, but I have a couple of hardy SPS corals as well. I do a ~20% water change every 1 - 1.5 weeks. No supplements are added (except Selcon to fish food).


www.MikesReef.com

[davocean]

I understand, and my wording could have been better( trying to type fast and hard to get the correct meaning in a typed mess sometimes)
Not a personal attack, just a peeve of mine sometimes people wave a banner as to how little can you get by with.
Of course there are people who do what it takes to overcome obsticles, but I think generally speaking those are few.
After years in the hobby I've developed a more conservative approach, and try to sway noobs into doing the same, rather than saying nah, you can get by w/out all the equipment.
Most of us find it to be a challenge even w/ all the gear you can stick on there!

[ricsreef]

Lots of people have had success without using skimmers,I'm just not one of them,I now have two on my 150g reef,1 in sump.1 external.Sure has helped with my water quality.A lot less algae blooms.I do a 20% w/c every week.Wish I could do it once a month though.Now I'm dreaming of a time when they will have a no-maintenance system.Set it up and watch it grow.Dont think it will be in my lifetime.LOL

[Der_Iron_Chef]

My 55G is skimmerless, sumpless and fugeless. I do weekly water changes and top off water manually every day. I also manually dose 2-part Ca/dKH, iodine and strontium.

Only other things I run are phosban and carbon.

[davocean]

Pics!

[thrillreefer]

Here is a pic of my 55 at about a year and a half. It is (and always has been) skimmerless and sumpless. Note the plexiglass to partition off a corner for and overflow and to hold the main circulation pump.

I've had success with SPS and anemones in the tank, as well as LPS/softies and plenty of shrooms

tricolor acro a year ago:

and around 6 month later (no Ca reactor either, just turbo calcium):

[thrillreefer]

So, I had success with that tank, though I have since had to move and downsize to a 29. For what it's worth, the tank went downhill quite a bit as I neglected it at the end of the school year/graduation. a skimmer probably gives a lot more leeway in terms of maintenance, but that's just an opinion for now

Also, I am planning on adding a skimmer to my new 29 as soon as it matures a bit and I find one that will fit well, so I'm not sure I'm on the side of no skimmer.

[davocean]

Check into the Tunze nano doc's, getting good reviews.

[TWallace]

I've removed my skimmer from my system a month ago. It wasn't producing much skimmate in the first place and I never had a problem with nitrates, so I didn't see the point of leaving it running. So far, no changes noticed in the tank. Nitrates are around 2.5ppm. I have a HOB refugium for nitrate reduction. I'll post pics tonight if I remember. It's a 55g with lots of SPS, a few softies and a couple of LPS. I've got several acros, montis, stylophoras and 5 clams (3 crocea, 1 derasa, 1 maxima).

[MSU Fan]

Aquabucket is someone else who runs a 40g skimmerless. He posted the thread "3 days with no lights..." that won thread of the month recently.

[Gdevine]

I have a 65g with a 35g fuge EcoSystem method. When Leng first developed this method with the use of miracle mud there was really no need for a skimmer.

I kept the bio load lite and didn't over feed and everything thrived and water quality right in line.

But all the reading I did on the use of a skimmer was just too much.

So I bought one.

In fact, Leng now sells skimmers for all EcoSystem's. Why? Who knows...probably a combination of additional revenue opportunities and biological improvements.

I run an over sized skimmer now and it produces really disgusting crap that I could ever have imagined was in the tank and it's made for a much healthier tank IMO.

As for maintaining the skimmer...all of about 15 minutes in total per week.

[Aquabucket]

Originally posted by MSU Fan
Aquabucket is someone else who runs a 40g skimmerless. He posted the thread "3 days with no lights..." that won thread of the month recently.

Thanks for mentioning my tank Craig! Here is a picture of it:



Its important to note that the corals I choose to keep are well suited for this type of set-up.

[MarineGirl411]

LFS was taking care of a 120 gallon SPS Dominated tank. It also contained clams, and other LPS. That tank never had a skimmer on it. It was one of the most beautiful tanks I've seen. I just saw a picture of it last night. I will see if the owner will let me post it. They had bought a skimmer to set it up, just never did. They did a 10% water change every week. It had a sump, but no refugium I believe. Beautiful tank. It had more growth than most SPS tanks in the store. He was taking care of the tank for the guy while he was away. Took care of it for 10 months. Actually it's Kevinpo who took care of it. =)