3-4 months till I get my first seahorses! But the tanks started.

[amutti]

I'm really excited about this. Similar to another post, my wife has been nagging me to get seahorses; so finally I found the time to setup my first 'married' 29 gallon that has been unused for a while. Today my live rock arrived (I ordered 40lbs, but actually got 48lbs!!! That was an after cleaning total weight!) and I have officially started the tank.

So here is what I have so far:

29 gallon tank
Aquaclear 500 modded, but not setup yet, to be a mini refugium
Berlin Airlift 60 Protein Skimmer (choose this due to the height above the tank and lack of in-tank powerjet)
48 lbs live rock
1.5-2" live sand (approx 40lbs)
100 watt heater (mounted in the Aquaclear 500)
PowerSweep 214 w/prefilter
24" 3xT4 Light

Here is the future plan:
2-6 weeks (depending on cycle time) get:
10 Mexican Red Leg Hermit Crabs
5 Scarlet Reef Hermit Crabs
10x Cerith Snails
10x Nerite Snails
5x Turban Snails
5x Nassarius Snail
3-4 lbs Garf Grunge (http://www.garf.org -- thought I might try it, new tank is an excuse)
Introduce Halimeda, Caulerpa, various others to main tank
Setup Refugium with Chaetomorpha and rubble
Add a couple of LFS cured branch LR
Add a Xenia frag from one of my other tanks

4-10 weeks
1x Emerald Crab or 2x Porcelain Crabs
2-3 Peppermint Shrimp
1 or 2 Neon Gobies (maybe)

12 - 18 weeks (November - December)
Setup 2 Gallon tank to raise brine shrimp (I plan to feed primarily frozen mysis and cyclopeeze, but I keep reading that I need to feed live food like brine shrip at least weekly . . .)
3x Medium (3-4") Captive Raised hippocampus erectus

March-April 2008
- Get a chiller (My thought was an "IceProbe" mounted into the Aquaclear)

What am I missing? Someone at the LFS suggested getting halogen track lighting and mounting it under the shelf above the tank (The tank is in a bookcase) instead of the t4s. They said it would be cooler and but provide enough light for the macros and maybe xenia's or other medium light corals. Thoughts?

Too many reef cleaners?

Would I be better getting 4-5 colts from a breeder or the 3 larger seahorses?

If necessary, I have room under the tank for a 20 gallon sump, but I was trying to avoid it if possible.

Thanks for any suggestions!

Tony

[ann83]

My advice, in no particular order:

1. Do the sump! You will regret it if you don't. Seahorses are very dirty fish, and their tanks tend to run high in nitrates if every precaution isn't taken to reduce them. They put out a heck of a bioload for a small-ish fish. Also, refugium style sumps will produce extra live snacks for the seahorses to feed on throught the day which is good for their health.
2. No crabs. You might be able to get away with scarlet reef hermits, but definately no red legs, emeralds, or porcelains. Hermit crabs can injure a seahorse tail, and seahorses don't have great circulation in their tails so tail injuries often result in bacterial infections and even death. No crabs.
3. Only 2 seahorses in a 29, not 3. Odd numbers tend to produce a poor dynamic with seahorses anyway... not always, but sometimes. Anyway, you don't have room for 3, only 2. Definately not 4-5. Just because they are smaller doesn't mean you can fit more in; they are just younger, and will grow quickly to the "medium" size or adult size or however you refer to it. Plus, "colts" that are small enough to fit 5 in a 29 are going to still be young enough that you are going to have to feed them several times a day, and not just twice. And what are you going to do with them in a couple months when you have 5 "medium" seahorses in your tank? Erectus will grow to 9" or so, and they are thick bodied, and eat and poop a lot (simple digestive system, no stomach), don't be fooled by the tiny things you see in the LFS. They are usually very young (around 12 weeks) and often underfed. Stick with 2 seahorses.
4. I am worried your seahorses aren't going to have any swimming room with 48 lbs of LR, the additional branch rock, the garf grunge, the 2" sandbed, and everything else you plan on having. Consider swimming room in this plan. Also, consider water depth; I wouldn't put more than 1" of substrate in the tank. Seahorses need vertical swimming room and 29 gallons are already short tanks. Another good reason to have a sump/refugium... its someplace to put all that rock.
5. I doubt your seahorses will eat cyclopeez; its too small. They'll mostly go for mysis, and when they get larger, they'll also go for frozen "plankton" foods like small krill. Make sure you gutload the weekly live brine with beta glucan or a vitamin supplement (NOT a fatty suplement), otherwise, its worthless nutritionally. If you get a pair of peppermint shrimp, you'll have live baby peps every week or two for them to snack on also.
6. Too many cleaners. I recommend 4 nassarius and 4 nerite OR 4 turban/astrea, and thats it for now, you can add more later if you need to. You don't want a big ammonia spike because you had a bunch of snails starve to death.
7. Make sure that heater doesn't melt the cheap plastic on the aquaclear.
8. How do you plan on lighting the aquaclear if you plan on having chaeto in it? Also, plan on having chaeto floating all over your tank if you are keeping it in a modded aquaclear. Yet another reason for a sump/refugium.
9. Make sure you can keep the temperature in the tank under 74 degrees. If it goes over 74, the bacteria that seahorses are most succeptible to will mutate to form more aggressive strains and will reproduce quicker, bad news and expensive to treat. You might want to consider that when you consider lighting.
10. Buy your seahorses from a reputable aquaculture facility. Size doesn't matter as long as it is a good breeder that you are getting them from and they are true CB. www.seahorsesource.com , www.dracomarine.org , and www.nyseahorse.com are all good sources. Don't buy "TR" and don't buy from your LFS unless they get their seahorses from a breeder that you can call and speak to personally. It sounds "seahorse nazi-ish" but its true, and you'll see many threads where people say "I knew better, but they looked good at the LFS..." and it tends to not go well w/ the seahorses having parasites and other disease problems. Know who raised your seahorses.

HTH

[amutti]

Thanks for the advice. 2 Seahorses, perhaps a couple of scarlet reef hermits (in my other tanks they are very good at getting the leftovers so thats why I thought I'd have some). Are you sure no porcelains? They are about as docile a crab as I've ever seen . . . they are scared of about everything. Get a sump . . . shouldn't be a problem. I'm not sure I agree with your snail selection as they eat different things (nassarius = meaty/waste/algae, turban = algae, cerith = cyano bacteria/algae) . . . maybe 1 or 2 of each?

I have a "protector" on the heater that should keep it from melting the AquaClear . . .

Chaetomorpha in the tank? Highly doubtful, not that I care too much, but I put a pretty high screen across the entire overflow, about 1.5", well above the water line. I have a 2x 18 watt power compact I could use for lighting, but I think it will make things too hot . . . so I was thinking either a clip on 13 watt CF or if I use tracklighting for the display one of those . . .

I think I'll be okay with swimming room, the live rock only takes up less then 1/4 the tank (pretty dense) and is stacked in the right back corner sort of flowing out to about the middle of the tank. The entire left side is entirely sand . . . . I can take a little out after the tank is cycled and put in one of my other reef tanks. Of course I've never kept seahorses so I'll differ to the experts . . . .

How do seahorse do solo? Perhaps if they are such dirty fish and this tank is too small maybe one would be better?

[ann83]

I don't use any crabs, not even scarlet reef hermits, but really they would be the only ones you would want to risk. Even without aggressiveness, seahorses rest on surfaces and hitch on everything and they could hitch on or near the crab, or for that matter, seahorses grow algae on themselves so any algae eating crabs are an issue if they decide to help pick the algae off the seahorse. Its just a matter of the fact that injured or sick seahorses are really difficult and time consuming to treat (they often stop eating and have to be tube fed to be kept alive), so "better safe than sorry" is a better option with them than "I'll take the risk and deal with it if it happens", you know?

I've never seen a cerith eat cyano. I was suggesting getting a couple of nassarius and a couple of algae eating snails (I prefer nerite over turban personally, but you could get either). If ceriths eat cyano for you, then by all means get a couple of those too. Sorry for the confusion on that, I wasn't saying get nassarius OR nerite, I was suggesting you get both but that it was up to you whether you wanted turban or nerite. A couple of each of the algae eating snails would work too.

If its fine enough screen on the aquaclear, cool. I was imagining that craft mesh being used as screen, and little bits of chaeto can easily flow through that. I personally have cheato in the back of my display behind my rocks because I like that its a good in-tank pod & shrimp breeding ground, but I know some people hate the look of little bits of chaeto floating in the display, so I thought I'd warn you.

With the rock, as long as there is plenty of swimming room, then the more rock the better. Also, if you do the sump, I'd do it refugium-style and put some of the rock in there too, with some chaeto, to help grow pods and other things for the seahorses to snack on. Also, as far as swimming room, try to make sure the seahorses have at least 18" of vertical swimming room (18" of water above the substrate), this is especially important if you ever want to try your hand at breeding/rearing fry.

Seahorses are social fish. Personally, I don't believe in keeping one alone. Some people have done it, others have seen marked personality differences and less activity when their seahorses are kept alone than when they are kept in pairs (don't need to be M/F pairs; M/M & F/F works fine too). I really think you'll be fine with two seahorses, especially if you put in a sump. Without the sump and with all that rock, I was really worried about water volume, but with a sump, and knowing the rock is dense and doesn't take up as much room as I thought, I think 2 seahorses would be perfect. A 29 is the minimum for a pair, but it isn't a stretch, just a little harder to maintain zero nitrate than it would be in a larger water volume. With no fish tankmates, I think it'd be perfect.

One thing I just thought of; put the skimmer on the sump instead of in the display to prevent microbubbles (which have been controversially linked to some seahorse diseases).

[amutti]

I like nerite too but they lay unsightly white eggs everywhere in my tanks . . . . I have unequivocally observed ceriths eating red cyano; so I like to keep a few on hand.

I've read a lot of posts and faqs on keeping seahorses and I keep reading conflicting reports on there tolerance for nitrate. I've read that anything under 10-15ppm causes little stress, over 15-25 is the general stress range . . . others post that anything above 1ppm will stress them out? It sounds like your of the mind anything above 1 is no good? Most of my reef tanks fluctuate between 5-10ppm with few signs of stress (10-20% water changes every other week).

Thanks for your insight!!!!! I appreciate it.

[ann83]

The problem is that it is an individual thing with seahorses. Some will be fine at 10ppm, and some will stop eating if it reaches 10ppm. Same with pH, some are fine at 8.0, and some will stop eating if the pH drops to 8.0. I like to try to keep nitrate as close to zero as possible though. I don't like to plan that my tank will have excess nutrients, sometimes it happens, but the plan is to do everything I can to keep things at zero. My seahorses' appetites aren't affected until nitrate goes above 20 ppm, but I still want to keep nitrate as low as possible. Mine also eat less if the pH is low (8.0), or if the temperature reaches 75... which are all things that have only happened on one or two occasions.

[amutti]

I will monitor the temp after this initial cycle/curing. For now i'm keeping the temp at 78. When this tank use to be an african tank, the temp hovered around 73 with the light on all the time. I'm going to keep an eye on it and if it goes above 75 I will pick up the cooling device mentioned above ( and a thermostat). Do you keep any coral in you tank? I was thinking xenia and perhaps blastomus . . . Both don't sting.

[ann83]

I don't know about blastos, I think they'd be okay... Xenia is definately okay. I keep kenya trees and they are great hitching posts. People also like colt corals and gorgonians for that too. Basically, not only do you have to worry about the corals hurting the horses, but you also have to worry about whether the corals will thrive in a seahorse system. Seahorse systems typically have much less flow and much less lighting than the typical reef system, and they also have a tendency to run with nitrates. Lots of people stick with easy low light things like mushrooms, kenya trees, etc.
These are two good places to reference for corals with seahorses http://www.seahorse.org/library/arti...ankmates.shtml
http://forum.seahorse.org/index.php?showtopic=17197
Also, while not a coral, I find that feather dusters do very well in seahorse tanks (must be all those tiny mysis bits floating around).

[seastar12]

Ann83, that's a nice seahorse in your avatar.

[ann83]

Thanks. It had to be so small to fit the maximum memory requirements for avatars on here, that I'm suprised you can even see her.