Opinion needed

[edacsac]

I've been researching a reef tank for over 3 months now. I've learned alot about many aspects, and at least a little bit about everything I think I will eventually touch on within the first year. I've asked questions in about every forum I've come across and have been given alot of good opinions.

At this point I'm still unsure of everything I want to keep, but I have a better idea than when I started.

I know I'm going for a smaller tank, 30 gallon long or XL which is 48x"x12"x12. I want this tank because it has the same height as my current 10gal FW, and it will look uniform and give me the asthetic appeal I'm looking for for my fish area. I also plan to setup 1 or 2 more 10gal tanks for whatever reason.

I know I want a purple firefish,and there are several gobies I like at this point. I know I can have between 4 and 10 fish. I will probably stay with about 5 or 6 depending on who gets along with what. I'm an understock over filter kind of person anyway. My tank will start as a FOWLR tank for the first 6 to 8 months, maybe even the first year. I'm interested in the many different shrimps, crabs and critters I've never had the chance to care for and watch as a newbie reefer.

Once I get into corals, I will probably get into the SPS and defianatly zoos. I don't know what kind of coral a kenya tree is, but I want some of those eventually as well.

My lighting choice will be T5. Probably a Tek fixture. I'm going to have a refugium chamber in my sump, and I'm hoping my sump will be a 55gal - 48"x12"x"20, but I don't think it will work because I won't be able to get the skimmer out once the tank is placed on the bottom shelf of the metal stand. I may just do another 30gal for the sump, but then I won't be overfiltered like I wanted to be. I want to way overfilter, but I'm getting frustrated that I can't put the tank under the display. I could build a wood stand, but my basement is prone to taking on a bit of water so I'd rather stick with metal.

I have a red sea berlin turbo skimmer that I'm going to use in my oversized sump, I'm going to use 1/2 bulkheads (based on previous research and advice) and I'll be building a 4-6 outlet manifold for the return. I'm going to use a mag 5 or 7 for my return pump. I'm just not sure yet, because the head loss calculator here doesn't accomodate 1/2" plumbing.

I'm feeling pretty confident and I'm ready to get my fall project started. I'll be ordering my tanks this weekend, so I should have them in a week.

If anybody wants to help a noob, please just read and comment on whatever. Send any wisdom you can my way. I've read the noob articles at every forum I have joined, so I'm aware of safety issues, expense of the hobby, time involved, filtereing, algae, unwanted critters, liverock differences, etc, etc... I've taken alot in and I just want to get started.

Thank you!!

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Sounds like a good plan.

It also sounds like you are pretty keen on the dimensions of the tank you picked out already. It is certainly an unconventional choice, and will limit your aquascaping potential - if you're OK with that though, proceed!

Don't concentrate on a certain number of fish - instead, pick compatible species and consider their eating/pooping habits individually.

If you want to be successfull with SPS, you will need incredibly intense light. T5 should be OK since your planned tank is only 12" deep, but get a high-bulb-count fixture if you can afford it.

[schutzstaffel]

I would definitely make the tank deeper and taller, that will give you A LOT more options on what you can do with it. If you go with the 48x12x12, you will regret it at some point down the road, unless of course you are making the tank to custom fit a certain spot or something.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Let's put it this way: 48" x12" x12" would be unconventional and therefore challenging. IMHO, it could look really neat if done very carefully.

[edacsac]

Thanks for your reply er_wille_zur_macht,

Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht
Sounds like a good plan.

It also sounds like you are pretty keen on the dimensions of the tank you picked out already. It is certainly an unconventional choice, and will limit your aquascaping potential - if you're OK with that though, proceed!

I think this is where I was hoping for some pros and cons from others on the tank dimensions. I have a picture in my head of a long shallow tank, I don't plan on using large pieces of LR except to create a few overhangs or hidy holes for fish. Everything is going to be done on a small scale (except for the kenya trees) hopefully slower growing corals when the time comes for corals. I probably could go a little taller on the tank, but that would take me out of the "nano" category. How bad am I going to be limited?

Don't concentrate on a certain number of fish - instead, pick compatible species and consider their eating/pooping habits individually.

Gotchya! While I'm cycling, I'll try to put together a good community.

If you want to be successfull with SPS, you will need incredibly intense light. T5 should be OK since your planned tank is only 12" deep, but get a high-bulb-count fixture if you can afford it.

I have $400 set aside for lights, and it looks like I can get whatever I need in a Tek fixture.

Thanks again!

[edacsac]

Originally posted by schutzstaffel
I would definitely make the tank deeper and taller, that will give you A LOT more options on what you can do with it. If you go with the 48x12x12, you will regret it at some point down the road, unless of course you are making the tank to custom fit a certain spot or something.

Kinda, I have a corner of the basement that I want a level visual line with the tanks. I don't want a bunch of 12" high tanks, then one thats 18" tall. That would be distracting. I also want a long tank for the reef tank. Maybe I should forget about it for awhile... I know as well a bigger tank is better

Thanks!

[Aquarist007]

Is the basement all finished---it is possible to have a room or space behind the tank as an equipment room. I've seen systems where the pipe goes through the wall and they have a great sump refugium room behind the tank.

[edacsac]

Originally posted by capn_hylinur
Is the basement all finished---it is possible to have a room or space behind the tank as an equipment room. I've seen systems where the pipe goes through the wall and they have a great sump refugium room behind the tank.

If this tank goes well, I have a wall that I could do that with with the "next tank" This tank is the "get my feet wet tank".

[edacsac]

I started all this thinking I would do a 10 gallon nano with great ideas and alot of nano examples, then I seen a LFS who made the 48x12x12 and thought wow, it would be like 4 10 gallon tanks all ina row!

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Go for it. Honestly, it sounds like a neat idea, it's just going to defy the convention, which is OK if you take the right approach.

You're gonna have a fair amount of surface area for your given volume, which means a bit more evaporation and a bit more expense in terms of lighting to keep things running right. But really, these are just small details in the grand scheme. I really like your concept of doing everything in miniature, and I'd be really careful to plan the rockwork accordingly. It would be interesting to do it as a "slice" of a typical reef structure - you could have a wall or mountain at one end representing the barrier reef - with lots of flow and chaos, then taper it off towards the other end, where you'd keep some lagoonal species.

[edacsac]

Thanks for the encouragement der_wille_zur_macht!

Your comments about expensive lighting is in regards to the future of keeping SPS and not anything else I'm missing? I will be implementing an auto topoff system once I get things rolling further. My 10 gallon FW tanks loses a quart or so every couple of days in the winter when it's dry, but does salt water evaporate faster?

Thanks again!

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Marine tanks generally have somewhat high rates of evaporation, since they are typically run somewhat hot, with lots of light, and lots of water movement. I bet a tank that size will be half a gallon a day or more, depending on the room it's kept in. In a warm, dry room with lots of air movement and powerful lights, I bet there are people out there losing more than a gallon a day with tanks that size.

That said, with an auto topoff, it doesn't matter. In fact, evaporating a lot can be a good thing - it means you're getting free cooling. Plus, if you're using kalk to topoff, you're able to put more in if you're evaporating more, which means more Ca and alk in your system.

My comment about expensive lighting was relative to a similar-sized tank with a smaller footprint - i.e. a traditional 30g tank that's only 3' long. To maintain a given intensity, tanks with larger surface areas require more energy than tanks with smaller surface areas - you're simply lighting a larger footprint, which either requires longer bulbs or more bulbs. In your case, it won't be a big difference, especially if you're aiming for non-demanding corals.

Do you have any width constraints? Working within your 12" height constraint, it would be really cool to do a tank that was either really long or really wide - like 6'x1'x1' or 4'x2'x1'.

[edacsac]

I don't have any width or length restraints except when considering ongoing maintenence cost. 6'x1'x1' would be a 70gal; would that be a double+ upkeep price? Tank cost goes from $50 to $130, but thats a small price in the long run.

What would a 4'x2'x1' do for me? The only thing I could see would be wanting to look through the top as opposed to side, lol..

[der_wille_zur_macht]

4x2x1 would get you a more three dimensional structure to work with. The problem with tanks that aren't wide (front to back) is that they look like 2 dimensional paintings hung on a wall - it's hard to really give any sense of looking at a real reef. A tank with more room from front to back makes possible a more 3-d rock/coral structure, giving more of an impression that you're looking at a realistic scene from a natural reef.

A 6'x1'x1' tank would be kind of freakish to work with (expensive to light, difficult to get good circulation from end to end, other issues) but could look REALLY cool!

Forgive me if I'm throwing out crazy ideas, I guess I'm using your thread as a spot to brainstorm/daydream.

[Aquarist007]

don't apologize -I like brainstorming/daydreaming

[edacsac]

I could go 18" deep. Thats not as expensive as 24" deep and would give me a little more room. I think the biggest point you make is circulation. I've spent alot of time pondering that, but didn't think about tank width as a problem.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

I don't think circulation would be a real problem unless you got in to a very weird tank shape (6x1x1 or the like) and wanted to keep demanding SPS.

18" deep would give you a bit more freedom, for sure. Do you have any LFS? Check out their rock holding tanks to get an idea of the sizes/shapes of rock you will have available. IMHO, it'll be a little easier to get interesting pieces with 18" rather than 12".

[edacsac]

I was going try and build most of my scape from that one place that sells rock rubble. That may be a mistake though. Another reason I decided on a 48" tank as opposed to a 36" tank or less, is because I have a red sea berlin turbo classic that I got brand new for cheap. The footprint for that skimmer and pump is 15". Between that and the fact that I want a good sized refugium made the 48" the best choice while staying in or close to the nano category.

I was also going to build a 6 or better oulet manifold for return lines. I thought 1/2 plumbing with a 300gph return pump would create enough pressure to have good criculation.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Rock rubble may be entirely too small, unless you do a lot of gluing to combine pieces.

300 gph through the sump sounds OK, but IMHO you'll want more circulation in the tank itself, especially if keeping corals. I'd look at one of the smaller koralia prop pumps.

[edacsac]

I was hoping to keep it simple and not have to plug any more pumps in. If I have a huge fuge, would it be ok to maybe have 500gph and my manifold with outputs going all over the place?

Thank you so much for the attention on this, I so greatly appreciate it!!

[edacsac]

I'm thinking of moving my plan up to a 50-65 gallon tank. I already ordered 1 1/8" diamond hole saws for 1/2 bulkheads. Will I be ok with that size plumbing and a little bigger tank? If not I'll just stick with the 30Gal plan. I don't like wasting money. Any recomonndations on return pump for a 50-65gal with a manifold?

[der_wille_zur_macht]

1/2" lines will be OK for returns on a tank that size, assuming you have several of them. What is your plan for an overflow? 1/2" plumbing would be pretty restrictive for an overflow, you'd have to have several standpipes to get the capacity you want.

Most people aim for sump turnover in the neighborhood of 5x tank volume - just pick your favorite brand pump based on that. You'll definitely want more than that in the tank itself, but it's hard to push more than that through your sump - unless it is truly gigantic, too much flow will disturb a sump and cause microbubble problems. Hence most people use powerheads or a closed loop for additional flow.

[edacsac]

When I was in 30 gallon land, I was just going to do an adjustable eblow and basket thing. If I go bigger, I guess 2 of those or maybe a regular overflow with external dursos.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

The problem with elbows sticking out of bulkheads is that it can be very difficult or impossible to get them quiet, it's more or less hit or miss.

Once you put a wall around your bulkhead and form a more conventional overflow, you've opened up the possibility of a silent standpipe design, such as the durso you mentioned. That would get my vote every time, unless I was building a frag tank or something else utilitarian in a basement and didn't care about noise.

[edacsac]

My tank will be in the basement, so noise isn't that mch of an issue. I don't know yet... Most importantly I need to make the hole saw I already bought work, so I guess 2 standpipes should be sufficient? How would I get 1 pump to work multiple returns? I still plan on using a manifild.