How to get a Tang to eat nori?

[slider162]

Is there a trick to getting a young Tang to eat Nori? I have tried everything from brocoli to Julian Sprung's sea veggies to 3 different kinds of macro. The only veggie matter that she is eating is from the Lifeline green. I am also battling HLLE and supplementing Zoe, Zoecon, Vitamin-C, and garlic xtreme. Is it imperative that she eat nori?

[WaterKeeper]

No, it is not imperative at all. Your problem would seem to be related to water quality as the most common consensus is that HLLE is cause by poor water quality such as using tap water. It also may be why the fish is only interested in a limited type of food. Micro algae in the tank may be also be eaten by the fish and it is common for tangs to graze fairly constantly

[crumbletop]

I find attaching nori to a rock with a rubber band and placing that in the tank to be very effective in getting a fish used to eating it. They are used to grazing on rocks, etc, and may not feel comfortable enough to eat off of a clip. Once they get used to eating off of a rock, then they fairly easily make the switch to eating from a clip. JME.

[slider162]

Yeah, it is the HLLE that I am worried about. I should have titled it just another HLLE thread. Anyway, I am not very consistent with my water tests lately so I just to a 50% water change every weekend. It is RO/DI. She is still in QT.

My theory is that it was caused by the 14 days of Cupramine. This ended about 8 weeks ago. Also, she was beat up pretty bad by my clowns. She wouldn't leave them alone. Always had to be in the middle of them. Now the clowns are in the display. In the last 4 weeks I think I have stopped the erosion and her color has really come back. It just happens to be the same time I found the Lifeline Green and started supplementing. The HLLE remains and it is pretty bad. I am too embarrased to post a picture. I have heard that it will never fully cure and I have heard that it can be cured. I was just trying the macro algea approach with no success.

I did rubber band some around a rock last night. Most of it was just dangling and waving in the current. She was afraid of it. Maybe if I strap it down better she might eat it. I'll try it tonight.

[jallen18]

My yellow tang will practically jump out of the water to get to the nori clip I'm about to put in, very voracious eater to say the least.

[oct2274]

tangs do not do well with copper treatments, you should always hypo them. That being said, I would say your water quality in the qt tank is probably suspect. People always overlook QT water quality. The water in QT should be even better than in your display tank if at all possible. The QT should be fully cycled and pH should be in check. The whole purpose of QT is to make your fish healthy, so the water needs to be as good or better then the display tank. If you have not seen any type of type of illness besides HLLE for atleast 4 weeks I would start doing 25% water changes over the next few days from the display tank to the QT to allow the fish to adjust to the water quality in the display tank and then put it in the display tank. HLLE will disappear fairly rapidly in the display tank as long as the water quality is good. I bought a kole tank that had HLLE bad right from the store. Within two months it was totally gone because I had great water quality and fed it a good variety of food. I didn't supplement any vitamins what so ever. Good water quality and a variety of good foods was the key.

[harryk]

why did you treat with cupramine in QT did it have Ich or someother disease, or was is just preventative?? I have tangs and never had to teach them to eat Nori. I think it's an instinctual thing.

[slider162]

My Tang had ich straight from the LFS. I am told that out of the 6 that they had, mine is the only one known to have survived out of that batch. They were extremely small. About the size of a nickel. My QT is bare bottom and started out with about 5 pounds of live rock from my display. Over the last 3 months I have added base rock. I think I am up to about 20 pounds of rock now.

I agree, she would probably be better off in the display. My delema is that she has a need to be around other fish. I mean right on top of them. If I put her into the display tank I have a feeling she will go straight to the clowns that were originally beating her up which have since found the anemone. I also have a mild mannered Majestic that she may take to as well. I'll try introducing her to the display this weekend and see what happens.

[oct2274]

no, she would not have been better off in the display. always QT! You do not want ich in your display tank cause once it is in there you have no options but to take all fish out of the display tank for a minimum of 6 weeks so that the ich all dies off because there are no hosts. Use hypo on tangs and other fish if the only thing they have is ich and make sure the water is cycled in the QT with good parameters. It is a learning experience, don't feel bad. You are steps ahead of most people that don't quarantine. There are many good things about quarantine when done properly. Besides disease treatment it is good to help to get picky eaters to eat other foods and also to get them accustomed to you because there aren't alot of places to hide. You should not have any live rock in the qt tank if you are using copper or other medications because the rock absorbs it and leaches it off. If you are using hypo, you can of course have live rock, otherwise just put a few pvp pipe pieces in the qt for places to hide and sleep. I use a oversized aquaclear hang on filter packed with live rock rubble only to keep the tank cycled. If you have to use medications for something other than ich, you will have to do water changes daily because the medications will kill beneficial bacteria on the live rock rubble and after the medication is stopped and the fish is out of QT, you will just want to toss the rubble and get fresh.

[Aquarist007]

try these tablets----everthing in the tank goes nuts--the tanks are the first to feed off of them

http://www.mops.ca/cgi-bin/SoftCart....6f9+1190315504

[Mavrk]

I need to ask, what are the parameters of the DT?

My experience is that HLLE normally shows up when nitrates are high, and the best way to treat is with good water quality. This is not to say that nitrates cause HLLE, just that high nitrates usually mean poor water quality while low nitrates tend toward better water quality.

[Mavrk]

By the way, the healing of HLLE can take months.

[slider162]

I wasn't saying that she would have been better off going straight into the display, but that she might be better off now in trying to treat the HLLE. I honestly don't know what the parameters are now. I have been doing weekly water changes and calling it good. I will test tonight to see where they are before I do another water change.

The original 5 pounds of live rock went through the 14 days of cupramine. The pods died off. I reseeded the rock as soon as I could no longer detect the cupramine. The pods are back and I have 4 shrimp in there now to help eat what the Tang doesn't. I have been overfeeding trying to treat the HLLE. The inverts are healthy. I ran carbon for the longest time in an attempt to absorb the cupramine. I am no longer running carbon which I read could also contribute to HLLE.

[Aquarist007]

by overfeeding you are actually encouraging the HLLE.

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by capn_hylinur
by overfeeding you are actually encouraging the HLLE.

the most effective "stated by experienced" way to treat ich is with hyposalination.--gradually lowering the salinity level to .109 and having the fish stay in qt for 4-6 weeks.
Having said that --i would not buy a fish with visible signs of ich----I would make the LFS treat it for 4-6 weeks

[WaterKeeper]

Ah Capn,

HLLE=Head and Lateral Line Erosion-a disease where erosion of the body tissue occurs mainly near the head and medial line of the fish. It has not been proven what the cause of the disease is but it seems to hinge on water quality although stray currents are also a possible cause. It does not occur in nature. Treatments like hypo are of no use and I've never seen a effective medication for its treatment.

I would however never buy a fish that exhibits its symptoms as it is very disfiguring.

[joesynodontis]

ok your young tang does not know that nori is good. My juvenile purple tang was not at all interrested in eating nori, By adding a fish that ate nori gave my purple tang the idea that. hey it is a good food source , so now after seeing other fish eating the nori my tnakg is all over it.

[slider162]

Nitrites = .025
Nitrates = 5

She was healthy when I got her. Only through my not paying attention to her did she get so disfigured. I think she is coming around. I tried a small piece of nori and rubber banded it so that it isn't waving all over the place. We will see what happens.

[kau_cinta_ku]

nitrites are a no no to have which is why it isn't getting better

[harryk]

Anything you treated in your display tank with Cupramine will always leach copper and it is basically useless. Never ever treat a display tank with copper. FYI it is harder to take care of such a small fish and i would stay away from them. IMO they are more suseptable to diseases do to the fact that their not as strong as larger specimins.

[oct2274]

like i said originally, you need to get your water quality in check, you should definitely have 0 nitrites, if you do have nitrites, you tank is not cycled, and really you should have 0 nitrates too.

[slider162]

I never said I dosed cupramine in my display.

The QT is going on 3 months now. Nothing but cured live rock and base rock have ever been put in it. I would say that the nitrites are from overfeeding and I will try to correct that. That or the peppermints that are breeding like it is going out of style.

[coast2coast7390]

IMO if they dont want to eat it they wont...but they will if they get hungry enough

[Mavrk]

Originally posted by slider162
I never said I dosed cupramine in my display.

The QT is going on 3 months now. Nothing but cured live rock and base rock have ever been put in it. I would say that the nitrites are from overfeeding and I will try to correct that. That or the peppermints that are breeding like it is going out of style.

In a fully cycled tank, the bacteria will convert the ammonia to nitrite and the nitrite to nitrate fast enough that ammonia and nitrite is not detectable. Somehow you don't have enough bacteria to accomplish this. Nitrates at 5 is pretty good (of course 0 is better). But the nitrite does concern me.

Like you said I have heard of carbon as a possible contributor to HLLE. Usually this is when it is used in higher amounts for longer periods of time. Unfortunately like WaterKeeper said, we don't really know the cause of HLLE.

Once you don't have the nitrites anymore, you should be able to put it back into the tank (as long as you are confident the ich is gone and will not come back... usually about 4-6 weeks after the signs of ich have subsided).

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by WaterKeeper
Ah Capn,

HLLE=Head and Lateral Line Erosion-a disease where erosion of the body tissue occurs mainly near the head and medial line of the fish. It has not been proven what the cause of the disease is but it seems to hinge on water quality although stray currents are also a possible cause. It does not occur in nature. Treatments like hypo are of no use and I've never seen a effective medication for its treatment.

I would however never buy a fish that exhibits its symptoms as it is very disfiguring.

I never said that---I was refering to the treatment of ich--if I implied it I apologize

There are cases where people have kept the nitrates down for HLLE and been successfull--but over a long period of time.--perhaps it is coincidental