pH on Fiji Reefs - Aqautic "Myth" information

cayars · 09/21/2007, 06:39 AM

In the C Journal by Anthony Calfo Vol1 Num1 there is an article by Anthony on pH called:

Aqautic "Myth" information

Anthony recommends to maintain a strong and stable pH on the higher end of the natural range: 8.3-8.6

He goes on to say "Aside from my personal observations in the Pacific - Tonga/Fiji, S. E. Asia and the Indian Ocean, that more of the creatures commonly kept in aquaria hail from areas of the reef with such "high" ph..."

I haven't ever seen any data on pH from any of these reefs to back this up but doubt he would make up something like that so I'm trying to research this. I'm not finding much in the way of pH at all on these reefs.

Does anyone have any data to support or oppose this? I'd very much appreciate any data/links that anyone has on pH in these areas.

Thanks,
Carlo

frederickk · 09/22/2007, 07:21 AM

bump

cayars · 09/23/2007, 05:37 AM

Anyone?

cayars · 09/25/2007, 12:01 PM

I guess there is no pH in Fiji

Bump

seapug · 09/25/2007, 12:10 PM

I don't know of any specific research articles, but PH is an easy thing to measure and based on what we know about the effects of low vs. high PH on our aquariums and Mr. Calfo's expertise in the matter, I would imagine that it's true. In the Reef Aquarium book series there are many citings of scientific studies about the effects of PH on calcium deposition in stony corals being optimized at values on the high end such as those you mention.

cayars · 09/25/2007, 02:02 PM

I would agree it's easy to measure. What struck me is the typical 8.2-8.4 we always hear about as being ideal and then Calfo suggests 8.3-8.6 and bases it on the region of Fiji.

One might think if this were true (not saying it's not) that the typical pH we run at should be higher then we always hear about since this is the region most of our corals come from.

Carlo

seapug · 09/25/2007, 02:07 PM

yeah, most "new" advice I've read recommends keeping it as high as 8.6 to optimize calcification and fight the acidifying tendencies of closed systems.

cayars · 09/26/2007, 07:58 AM

But is it really an ideal pH?

rcypert · 09/26/2007, 08:49 AM

an ideal ph is one that is suitable to the creatures in the tank as well as easy to maintain. 8.6 PH is unattainable to most aquarists, and more likely to fluctuate these tanks dont remain stable at 8.6. If you can boost it that high it will probably fall back down rather quickly and that swing is hard on fish. Just keep it as high as you can but keep it stable most of all.

cayars · 09/26/2007, 09:13 AM

That's the thing. I CAN keep my nailed down at any value from 8.3 to 8.6. On a PinPoint pH meter and Neptune ACIII both calibrated I naturally run at 8.33/8.35.

So it would be a peace of cake to get it higher but adjusting the buffer I use. The question is really, what is the IDEAL pH for tanks with most of it's corals from the Fiji/Tonga area.

See what I'm getting at?

Carlo

cayars · 09/26/2007, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by seapug
yeah, most "new" advice I've read recommends keeping it as high as 8.6 to optimize calcification and fight the acidifying tendencies of closed systems.

Curious, where are you hearing 8.6? I still normally hear 8.2-8.4 (besides the Calfo article mentioned earlier).

Carlo

Jasontkd · 09/26/2007, 10:10 AM

are people seeing better sps growth at higher pH?

seapug · 09/26/2007, 10:25 AM

That's the idea. pH plays an important role in calcification (growth) of stony corals, especially the fancy Acros and SPS that hail from reef crests in the Fiji area. The details are in the last volume of The Reef Aqarium book series, I think. There have been many studies showing skeletal calcification is optimized at higher pH values in the 8.5-8.6 range. Above or below a wider range of values (7.6 to 8.8, or something like that) it slows. But it's also an issue of what reef zone the corals come from. Reef crests will naturally be much more high energy zones with crystal clear water and high pH, whereas lagoons will generally be higher nutrient/lower pH zones. If you look in the Reefkeeping.com archive articles I'm sure you can find some references to it.

That being said, as rcypert mentioned, most hobbyist tanks run in the 8.0 - 8.4 pH range and have great growth. If you have the means to accurately control it, it would be interesting to crank it up to 8.6 for a few weeks and see what happened.

cayars · 09/26/2007, 11:18 AM

I'll give it a shot and bump up the pH 0.1 per day and see what happens over the long haul. I'll use 8.55 as a target zone on my ACIII.

Thanks for the info and I'll have to check that out in the book you mentioned which I've got around here some place.

Thanks,
Carlo

Jasontkd · 09/26/2007, 11:49 AM

keep us posted. Maybe take some before shots of you SPS, and then in a week take some more. Keep a sort of journal. See if there is any noticeable growth.

cayars · 09/26/2007, 12:10 PM

Absolutely.

I actually have measurements of about 10-15 different types of corals in my tank which I've been keeping for about 6 months at 1 week intervals.

So I should have a decent baseline to work from too.

Carlo

Peter Eichler · 09/26/2007, 12:34 PM

I touched on this subject a bit here...

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1187329

09/21/2007, 06:39 AM	#1
cayars Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Bordentown, New Jersey Posts: 653	pH on Fiji Reefs - Aqautic "Myth" information In the C Journal by Anthony Calfo Vol1 Num1 there is an article by Anthony on pH called: Aqautic "Myth" information Anthony recommends to maintain a strong and stable pH on the higher end of the natural range: 8.3-8.6 He goes on to say "Aside from my personal observations in the Pacific - Tonga/Fiji, S. E. Asia and the Indian Ocean, that more of the creatures commonly kept in aquaria hail from areas of the reef with such "high" ph..." I haven't ever seen any data on pH from any of these reefs to back this up but doubt he would make up something like that so I'm trying to research this. I'm not finding much in the way of pH at all on these reefs. Does anyone have any data to support or oppose this? I'd very much appreciate any data/links that anyone has on pH in these areas. Thanks, Carlo

09/25/2007, 12:10 PM	#5
seapug Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: 4980 ft. Posts: 7,954 Blog Entries: 1	I don't know of any specific research articles, but PH is an easy thing to measure and based on what we know about the effects of low vs. high PH on our aquariums and Mr. Calfo's expertise in the matter, I would imagine that it's true. In the Reef Aquarium book series there are many citings of scientific studies about the effects of PH on calcium deposition in stony corals being optimized at values on the high end such as those you mention. __________________ insert clever saying here. Current Tank Info: 200 gallon custom Marineland DD peninsular tank. LPS dominated mixed reef. Previous 90 gallon mixed reef TOTM April 2009.

09/25/2007, 02:07 PM	#7
seapug Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: 4980 ft. Posts: 7,954 Blog Entries: 1	yeah, most "new" advice I've read recommends keeping it as high as 8.6 to optimize calcification and fight the acidifying tendencies of closed systems. __________________ insert clever saying here. Current Tank Info: 200 gallon custom Marineland DD peninsular tank. LPS dominated mixed reef. Previous 90 gallon mixed reef TOTM April 2009.

09/26/2007, 10:25 AM	#13
seapug Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: 4980 ft. Posts: 7,954 Blog Entries: 1	That's the idea. pH plays an important role in calcification (growth) of stony corals, especially the fancy Acros and SPS that hail from reef crests in the Fiji area. The details are in the last volume of The Reef Aqarium book series, I think. There have been many studies showing skeletal calcification is optimized at higher pH values in the 8.5-8.6 range. Above or below a wider range of values (7.6 to 8.8, or something like that) it slows. But it's also an issue of what reef zone the corals come from. Reef crests will naturally be much more high energy zones with crystal clear water and high pH, whereas lagoons will generally be higher nutrient/lower pH zones. If you look in the Reefkeeping.com archive articles I'm sure you can find some references to it. That being said, as rcypert mentioned, most hobbyist tanks run in the 8.0 - 8.4 pH range and have great growth. If you have the means to accurately control it, it would be interesting to crank it up to 8.6 for a few weeks and see what happened. __________________ insert clever saying here. Current Tank Info: 200 gallon custom Marineland DD peninsular tank. LPS dominated mixed reef. Previous 90 gallon mixed reef TOTM April 2009.

09/26/2007, 12:34 PM	#17
Peter Eichler Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Milwaukee Posts: 6,081	I touched on this subject a bit here... http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1187329 __________________ April 2015 TOTM

09/22/2007, 07:21 AM	#2
frederickk Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 2,712	bump

09/23/2007, 05:37 AM	#3
cayars Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Bordentown, New Jersey Posts: 653	Anyone?

09/25/2007, 12:01 PM	#4
cayars Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Bordentown, New Jersey Posts: 653	I guess there is no pH in Fiji Bump

09/25/2007, 02:02 PM	#6
cayars Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Bordentown, New Jersey Posts: 653	I would agree it's easy to measure. What struck me is the typical 8.2-8.4 we always hear about as being ideal and then Calfo suggests 8.3-8.6 and bases it on the region of Fiji. One might think if this were true (not saying it's not) that the typical pH we run at should be higher then we always hear about since this is the region most of our corals come from. Carlo

09/26/2007, 07:58 AM	#8
cayars Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Bordentown, New Jersey Posts: 653	But is it really an ideal pH?

09/26/2007, 08:49 AM	#9
rcypert Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Miami Posts: 435	an ideal ph is one that is suitable to the creatures in the tank as well as easy to maintain. 8.6 PH is unattainable to most aquarists, and more likely to fluctuate these tanks dont remain stable at 8.6. If you can boost it that high it will probably fall back down rather quickly and that swing is hard on fish. Just keep it as high as you can but keep it stable most of all.

09/26/2007, 09:13 AM	#10
cayars Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Bordentown, New Jersey Posts: 653	That's the thing. I CAN keep my nailed down at any value from 8.3 to 8.6. On a PinPoint pH meter and Neptune ACIII both calibrated I naturally run at 8.33/8.35. So it would be a peace of cake to get it higher but adjusting the buffer I use. The question is really, what is the IDEAL pH for tanks with most of it's corals from the Fiji/Tonga area. See what I'm getting at? Carlo

09/26/2007, 10:10 AM	#12
Jasontkd Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Kansas City, KS Posts: 545	are people seeing better sps growth at higher pH?

09/26/2007, 11:18 AM	#14
cayars Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Bordentown, New Jersey Posts: 653	I'll give it a shot and bump up the pH 0.1 per day and see what happens over the long haul. I'll use 8.55 as a target zone on my ACIII. Thanks for the info and I'll have to check that out in the book you mentioned which I've got around here some place. Thanks, Carlo

09/26/2007, 11:49 AM	#15
Jasontkd Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Kansas City, KS Posts: 545	keep us posted. Maybe take some before shots of you SPS, and then in a week take some more. Keep a sort of journal. See if there is any noticeable growth.

09/26/2007, 12:10 PM	#16
cayars Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Bordentown, New Jersey Posts: 653	Absolutely. I actually have measurements of about 10-15 different types of corals in my tank which I've been keeping for about 6 months at 1 week intervals. So I should have a decent baseline to work from too. Carlo