Help With Sump

ReefiN MonsteR · 09/30/2007, 02:19 PM

Ok I am going to attempt to explain this the best I can...without a picture because I don't have a digital camera right now to use. ........

My sump does not seem to be pulling and pushing water in and back out of the tank at the rate it seems it should. When I performed a water change today...I added the water directly into the tank until my water level was not visible on the glass (above the frame lip at the top of the tank)..however, this caused my overflow to be almost full and the sump was filling with water and not returning enought water fast enough to the display tank.

I know that the overflow hose is a half inch and the hose going back into the tank is an inch. The return pump I was given will only fit with a 1 inch hose and the drain hose in the overflow box will only fit to the half inch bulkheads on the bottom of the tank and to the sump bulkhead.

Does this make any sense?
Any ideas or comments on how to resolve the issue.

Aadler · 09/30/2007, 03:04 PM

It sounds like you can only have so much flow going OUT of your tank into the sump 1/2" tubing does not handle that many GPH. If your return pump is pumping water into the display to quickly you will need to do one or two things (or both)

1) Install a ball valve on your return line and retard the flow of water so that less water is entering your display tank than can safely drain. This is not a good idea as it will cause extra wear on your pump.

2) install a PVC T into your return line and run it back into your sump (make sure a ball valve is also on this line as you will need to keep it partially closed in order to achieve the correct flow.)

Rereading your post i cannot tell exactly what you mean, but i do not see how you could have any other problem than the one i gave suggestions for.

Your display tank should maintain the same water level at all times... (while water is running through it from the sump). If this level is fluctuating you have problems with the seal around your overflow box in the display tank and will need to silicon around the box again. If you are having this problem you are asking for a waterfall in your living room as a snail or crap could get into your 1/2" drain line and cause a serious backup.

Aadler · 09/30/2007, 03:11 PM

does this picture show your setup (very roughly

)?

explain where you are haveing the problem, to much water in the display? to much water in the sump?

if problem is in the sump you have a leak around your overflow box in the tank.

if the problem is to much water in display you are returning water to quickly and will need to use option 2 in my above post.

ReefiN MonsteR · 09/30/2007, 04:10 PM

Ok after reviewing the sump details....this is what the issue really is. I explained wrong in my first post.

The drain line is a 1" tube....and the bulkhead is also 1" in my overflow box. The return line has a 1" pipe and 1" fitting into the return pump. The problem is with the connection from the under side of the tank, where the water is pulled from the overflow box. Here is a diagram of how it looks.....I will post a picture later.

ReefiN MonsteR · 09/30/2007, 04:21 PM

Ok after reviewing the sump details....this is what the issue really is. I explained wrong in my first post.

The drain line is a 1" tube....and the bulkhead is also 1" in my overflow box. The return line has a 1" pipe and 1" fitting into the return pump. The problem is with the connection from the under side of the tank, where the water is pulled from the overflow box. Here is a diagram of how it looks.....I will post a picture later.

Aadler · 09/30/2007, 04:27 PM

Ok gotchya,

1) is anything glued?

2) go to homedepot/lowes and get a pvc fitting that will skrew onto the OUTSIDE of the bulkhead forget the inside, thus eliminating the need for the 1/2 connector then reduce (most likely 1.25" or 1.5" pvc down to a 1" pipe and continue to the skimmer.

You still havnt made the problem clear, is the problem water is backing up in the display tank?

192clark · 09/30/2007, 04:29 PM

you need to see if you can get rid of that 1/2 adapter even if it means going up in size on your hose to sump. The 1/2 restricts flow too much.

Playa-1 · 09/30/2007, 04:30 PM

The 1/2" adapter is restricting your drain flow and needs to be replaced with a 1" adapter.

ReefiN MonsteR · 09/30/2007, 05:49 PM

Ok cool..gotcha. The problem is not enough water in the tank .......if I fill the tank up all the way...then the overflow fills up and the sump starts filling up. I just want the two to be even. I dont really have too much water in the sump or tank.......I just cant get the water level in the tank to where I want it. (which is above the lip of the glass) which must be because of the uneven flow of water to and from the tank to the sump. Thanks again and I will try to modify the setup tomorrow

Playa-1 · 09/30/2007, 06:23 PM

You might want to hold off on making any changes. It sounds like you might have more going on then just the drain line. The 1/2" fitting change on the drain line is not going to solve that problem.
The 1/2" fitting change is just going to help the drain line to more efficient. You might want to hold off making any changes until you get more information. If the main tank is not holding enough water then that will be a totally different issue.
That could be the location of your returns or possibly a pump issue.

ReefiN MonsteR · 10/01/2007, 06:35 AM

Ok well I am not sure what to do then. The return is in the middle of the tank.....and the overflow is in the back left-hand corner. The pump for the return is brand new and seems to be working fine. What should I do in order to get this working right?

amike5 · 10/01/2007, 08:46 AM

If there isn't enough water in your tank, you need to raise the drain to the desired level. How hight your durso or hob is determines the level of water in your tank; unless you have a built in overflow.

Playa-1 · 10/01/2007, 09:25 AM

Agreed, how are your drain lines plumbed in the main tank?

ReefiN MonsteR · 10/01/2007, 12:03 PM

There is no durso or hob. The hole for the drain is on the bottom of the tank in the overflow box. And the drain hose runs under the tank to the sump. Would adding the durso pipe fix the problem by raising the overflow water height?

ReefiN MonsteR · 10/01/2007, 12:03 PM

CORRECTION!!!!!! My overflow is in the back RIGHT HAND corner....not left

ReefiN MonsteR · 10/01/2007, 01:09 PM

I dont know if this matters.....but my tank has a built in overflow that was there when I got the tank.

192clark · 10/01/2007, 04:56 PM

you need to build the durso if you have a built in overflow with just a hole in the bottom

Playa-1 · 10/01/2007, 05:45 PM

It sounds like your tank is drilled near the bottom of the tank and there is no skimmer box in place. If thats the case then you could install a durso stand pipe type of assembly and the the water level in the main tank would not drop below the elbow on the top of the stand pipe. You could also install a skimmer box in the corner and the water in the main tank would not drop below the top of the skimmer box. Or you could put both a skimmer box and a durso stand pipe

ReefiN MonsteR · 10/03/2007, 12:33 PM

I added a durso standpipe and that did not solve the issue. I think I am going to have to drain the tank and change the bulkead in the overflow. Yes the tank is drilled on the bottom of the tank......but even after adding the durso....i am still not able to raise my tank water level without too much water going into the overflow box and sump. The return pump i have should be plenty enough power (Mag 12). Could that be the problem?????the mag drive inlet is 3/4".

Playa-1 · 10/03/2007, 05:34 PM

What do you mean when you say too much water going into the overflow box?

Playa-1 · 10/03/2007, 05:35 PM

If your overflow box is not sealed then that would allow your water level to drop.

ReefiN MonsteR · 10/03/2007, 06:31 PM

I cant really explain it. Its weird. When I try to fill up my tank...once the water level get almost to the rim of the tank.....my sump starts rising and the water level in my overflow is to the top...almost reaching the venturi hole in the top of the durso pipe. and then within a few minutes.....the water level in the main tank is down a little bit more than it was...and the sump water level gets too high! I dont know what this all means but I just know something is not right! Any other ideas someone can offer? Im considering draining the tank....and then putting on a new bulkhead so that my drain hold is 1" all the way to the sump. and not 1" to a 1/2" adapter back to a 1" like i currently have.

ReefiN MonsteR · 10/03/2007, 06:33 PM

Maybe I need to re silicone the overflow and try that first? How can this work ? seeing how i have 140 gallons of water......a lot of live sand and live rock already almost cycled?? DO I HAVE TO DRAIN IT AND REMOVE EVERYTHING????

this will suck

Playa-1 · 10/03/2007, 07:04 PM

How far down is the main tank dropping if you don't stop it ?

Playa-1 · 10/03/2007, 07:24 PM

Are you trying to fill your tank above the top of the skimmer/Overflow box? If that is the case then that is the problem. The reef ready tanks are designed to have the water level at the top of the skimmer box. It would be possible to raise it higher then the skimmer with a properly fitted Durso style stand pipe. www.dursostandpipe.com

09/30/2007, 02:19 PM	#1
ReefiN MonsteR Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Kennesaw, GA Posts: 81	Help With Sump Ok I am going to attempt to explain this the best I can...without a picture because I don't have a digital camera right now to use. ........ My sump does not seem to be pulling and pushing water in and back out of the tank at the rate it seems it should. When I performed a water change today...I added the water directly into the tank until my water level was not visible on the glass (above the frame lip at the top of the tank)..however, this caused my overflow to be almost full and the sump was filling with water and not returning enought water fast enough to the display tank. I know that the overflow hose is a half inch and the hose going back into the tank is an inch. The return pump I was given will only fit with a 1 inch hose and the drain hose in the overflow box will only fit to the half inch bulkheads on the bottom of the tank and to the sump bulkhead. Does this make any sense? Any ideas or comments on how to resolve the issue.

09/30/2007, 03:04 PM	#2
Aadler Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 1,336	It sounds like you can only have so much flow going OUT of your tank into the sump 1/2" tubing does not handle that many GPH. If your return pump is pumping water into the display to quickly you will need to do one or two things (or both) 1) Install a ball valve on your return line and retard the flow of water so that less water is entering your display tank than can safely drain. This is not a good idea as it will cause extra wear on your pump. 2) install a PVC T into your return line and run it back into your sump (make sure a ball valve is also on this line as you will need to keep it partially closed in order to achieve the correct flow.) Rereading your post i cannot tell exactly what you mean, but i do not see how you could have any other problem than the one i gave suggestions for. Your display tank should maintain the same water level at all times... (while water is running through it from the sump). If this level is fluctuating you have problems with the seal around your overflow box in the display tank and will need to silicon around the box again. If you are having this problem you are asking for a waterfall in your living room as a snail or crap could get into your 1/2" drain line and cause a serious backup. __________________ MiniBow 7 - WooHoo

09/30/2007, 03:11 PM	#3
Aadler Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 1,336	does this picture show your setup (very roughly )? explain where you are haveing the problem, to much water in the display? to much water in the sump? if problem is in the sump you have a leak around your overflow box in the tank. if the problem is to much water in display you are returning water to quickly and will need to use option 2 in my above post. __________________ MiniBow 7 - WooHoo

09/30/2007, 04:27 PM	#6
Aadler Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 1,336	Ok gotchya, 1) is anything glued? 2) go to homedepot/lowes and get a pvc fitting that will skrew onto the OUTSIDE of the bulkhead forget the inside, thus eliminating the need for the 1/2 connector then reduce (most likely 1.25" or 1.5" pvc down to a 1" pipe and continue to the skimmer. You still havnt made the problem clear, is the problem water is backing up in the display tank? __________________ MiniBow 7 - WooHoo

09/30/2007, 04:10 PM	#4
ReefiN MonsteR Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Kennesaw, GA Posts: 81	Ok after reviewing the sump details....this is what the issue really is. I explained wrong in my first post. The drain line is a 1" tube....and the bulkhead is also 1" in my overflow box. The return line has a 1" pipe and 1" fitting into the return pump. The problem is with the connection from the under side of the tank, where the water is pulled from the overflow box. Here is a diagram of how it looks.....I will post a picture later.

09/30/2007, 04:21 PM	#5
ReefiN MonsteR Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Kennesaw, GA Posts: 81	Ok after reviewing the sump details....this is what the issue really is. I explained wrong in my first post. The drain line is a 1" tube....and the bulkhead is also 1" in my overflow box. The return line has a 1" pipe and 1" fitting into the return pump. The problem is with the connection from the under side of the tank, where the water is pulled from the overflow box. Here is a diagram of how it looks.....I will post a picture later.

09/30/2007, 04:29 PM	#7
192clark Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Summerville, SC Posts: 635	you need to see if you can get rid of that 1/2 adapter even if it means going up in size on your hose to sump. The 1/2 restricts flow too much.

09/30/2007, 04:30 PM	#8
Playa-1 Moved On Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Laguna Niguel, CA Posts: 7,497	The 1/2" adapter is restricting your drain flow and needs to be replaced with a 1" adapter.

09/30/2007, 05:49 PM	#9
ReefiN MonsteR Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Kennesaw, GA Posts: 81	Ok cool..gotcha. The problem is not enough water in the tank .......if I fill the tank up all the way...then the overflow fills up and the sump starts filling up. I just want the two to be even. I dont really have too much water in the sump or tank.......I just cant get the water level in the tank to where I want it. (which is above the lip of the glass) which must be because of the uneven flow of water to and from the tank to the sump. Thanks again and I will try to modify the setup tomorrow

09/30/2007, 06:23 PM	#10
Playa-1 Moved On Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Laguna Niguel, CA Posts: 7,497	You might want to hold off on making any changes. It sounds like you might have more going on then just the drain line. The 1/2" fitting change on the drain line is not going to solve that problem. The 1/2" fitting change is just going to help the drain line to more efficient. You might want to hold off making any changes until you get more information. If the main tank is not holding enough water then that will be a totally different issue. That could be the location of your returns or possibly a pump issue.

10/01/2007, 06:35 AM	#11
ReefiN MonsteR Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Kennesaw, GA Posts: 81	Ok well I am not sure what to do then. The return is in the middle of the tank.....and the overflow is in the back left-hand corner. The pump for the return is brand new and seems to be working fine. What should I do in order to get this working right?

10/01/2007, 08:46 AM	#12
amike5 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Englewood, CO Posts: 724	If there isn't enough water in your tank, you need to raise the drain to the desired level. How hight your durso or hob is determines the level of water in your tank; unless you have a built in overflow.

10/01/2007, 09:25 AM	#13
Playa-1 Moved On Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Laguna Niguel, CA Posts: 7,497	Agreed, how are your drain lines plumbed in the main tank?

10/01/2007, 12:03 PM	#14
ReefiN MonsteR Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Kennesaw, GA Posts: 81	There is no durso or hob. The hole for the drain is on the bottom of the tank in the overflow box. And the drain hose runs under the tank to the sump. Would adding the durso pipe fix the problem by raising the overflow water height?

10/01/2007, 01:09 PM	#16
ReefiN MonsteR Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Kennesaw, GA Posts: 81	I dont know if this matters.....but my tank has a built in overflow that was there when I got the tank.

10/01/2007, 04:56 PM	#17
192clark Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Summerville, SC Posts: 635	you need to build the durso if you have a built in overflow with just a hole in the bottom

10/01/2007, 05:45 PM	#18
Playa-1 Moved On Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Laguna Niguel, CA Posts: 7,497	It sounds like your tank is drilled near the bottom of the tank and there is no skimmer box in place. If thats the case then you could install a durso stand pipe type of assembly and the the water level in the main tank would not drop below the elbow on the top of the stand pipe. You could also install a skimmer box in the corner and the water in the main tank would not drop below the top of the skimmer box. Or you could put both a skimmer box and a durso stand pipe

10/03/2007, 12:33 PM	#19
ReefiN MonsteR Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Kennesaw, GA Posts: 81	I added a durso standpipe and that did not solve the issue. I think I am going to have to drain the tank and change the bulkead in the overflow. Yes the tank is drilled on the bottom of the tank......but even after adding the durso....i am still not able to raise my tank water level without too much water going into the overflow box and sump. The return pump i have should be plenty enough power (Mag 12). Could that be the problem?????the mag drive inlet is 3/4".

10/03/2007, 05:34 PM	#20
Playa-1 Moved On Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Laguna Niguel, CA Posts: 7,497	What do you mean when you say too much water going into the overflow box?

10/03/2007, 05:35 PM	#21
Playa-1 Moved On Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Laguna Niguel, CA Posts: 7,497	If your overflow box is not sealed then that would allow your water level to drop.

10/03/2007, 06:31 PM	#22
ReefiN MonsteR Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Kennesaw, GA Posts: 81	I cant really explain it. Its weird. When I try to fill up my tank...once the water level get almost to the rim of the tank.....my sump starts rising and the water level in my overflow is to the top...almost reaching the venturi hole in the top of the durso pipe. and then within a few minutes.....the water level in the main tank is down a little bit more than it was...and the sump water level gets too high! I dont know what this all means but I just know something is not right! Any other ideas someone can offer? Im considering draining the tank....and then putting on a new bulkhead so that my drain hold is 1" all the way to the sump. and not 1" to a 1/2" adapter back to a 1" like i currently have.

10/03/2007, 06:33 PM	#23
ReefiN MonsteR Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Kennesaw, GA Posts: 81	Maybe I need to re silicone the overflow and try that first? How can this work ? seeing how i have 140 gallons of water......a lot of live sand and live rock already almost cycled?? DO I HAVE TO DRAIN IT AND REMOVE EVERYTHING???? this will suck

10/03/2007, 07:04 PM	#24
Playa-1 Moved On Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Laguna Niguel, CA Posts: 7,497	How far down is the main tank dropping if you don't stop it ?

10/03/2007, 07:24 PM	#25
Playa-1 Moved On Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Laguna Niguel, CA Posts: 7,497	Are you trying to fill your tank above the top of the skimmer/Overflow box? If that is the case then that is the problem. The reef ready tanks are designed to have the water level at the top of the skimmer box. It would be possible to raise it higher then the skimmer with a properly fitted Durso style stand pipe. www.dursostandpipe.com