Ethical question.

warwick123 · 10/19/2007, 11:04 PM

Hello, So my buddies tank started leaking a year ago. He asked me to hold on to his corals for him. I said ok as long as he set up another tank soon. Well a year later I still have them. Everytime I talk to him he says he's going to set it up soon. He has another tank to put his corals in but he has crappy lights on it. He has his old lights but he would have to retrofit them. I am starting to get really angry that he hasnt done anything yet. Mostly because he is taking up prime real estate in my tank, to the point that I cant get new coral because his is taking up all my room. His colonies are much larger then mine and for the most part alot better selection of coral.

So my problem is, is that I want to set up a frag table in my sump, and take a good size frag from each of his corals, since he never comes over to see them and I doubt he is going to set up a tank soon they should heal nicely before he sets it up. Do you think this is a wrong or do you think that this is a fair "lot rent"?

ckprax · 10/19/2007, 11:10 PM

I saw go for it. Nothing in life is free and neither is the prime real estate in your tank. It's been a year, he has had plenty of time to save up and start a new tank. You have been more than a good friend and he is taking advantage of that. If it was me I would give him a week to get a tank cycling or I would tell him he can pay me for my time and space or I am keeping/selling his former corals. just my opinion on the matter.

dc · 10/19/2007, 11:10 PM

Well I wouldn't do it without asking. Personally if he's your buddy, I'd tell him that you are keeping them if he doesn't get them within a certain time frame.

dafunk5446 · 10/19/2007, 11:30 PM

I say go for it, that is really stupid that he has taking that long. The way I see it is the amount of a frag you are talking about isnt to much, its not like you are taking half the colony. I am guessing the colony has grown more then the amount you are planning on taking, so take a lower branch that is going to die off any way.

Sonics Big B · 10/19/2007, 11:33 PM

A buddy is a buddy. You should not take frags without telling him. Tell him you are taking some frags and if he does not like it, come get his stuff. If he says OK, then frag away and go help him get his setup going.

Sonics Big B · 10/19/2007, 11:33 PM

A buddy is a buddy. You should not take frags without telling him. Tell him you are taking some frags and if he does not like it, come get his stuff. If he says OK, then frag away and go help him get his setup going.

lvpd186 · 10/19/2007, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dc
Well I wouldn't do it without asking. Personally if he's your buddy, I'd tell him that you are keeping them if he doesn't get them within a certain time frame.

I agree. If this person really is your buddy you should at least tell him that you want to take some frags. And if he really is your buddy he will realize that its a fair thing to do and let you (it sounds like a fair trade to me). After all if you didn't take the corals he probably would have had to get rid of them. Maybe you should offer to just buy the corals from him (at a very discounted rate for your troubles), then you could do what you want with them.

K' Family Reef · 10/19/2007, 11:53 PM

look at it as a 'business decision'

what has it cost you
in say in electricity for liting/pumps/ETC ETC ETC your reef during the (time) his corals have been in your tank - plus your 'time' taking care of them (your time is WORTH something!)- care and maintanance of the system - salt cost etc etc

how much is that worth?
= your frags! (and then some)

if you have had them over a year even though i know you said you guys are buds - frags should not be an issue w/ him...

if it is
then sit down and figure out what percentage of your 'real estate' in your tank his corals are taking up - then figure in all your salt cost, energy costs ETC ETC ETC - over the course of the time you have 'housed' his corals - divide up the costs and send him a bill!!!

well then maybe you wont have to worry about frags
- the corals ARE YOURS!

ethical?
yes! assuming its going to be above board and everyone knows exactly whats going on ahead of time!... if their is a problem w/ it or cannot come to agreement - well possession is 9/10 of the law and he STILL has a BILL TO PAY!

rotflmao!

regards

EyeCandy · 10/20/2007, 12:04 AM

Just say, " hey man your corals are doing so great, I had to frag them because they were getting big." No one should get mad at that. You are feeding them and keeping them alive. Do it.

JustinReef · 10/20/2007, 12:21 AM

Personally, I would frag them and then give him the frags and keep the colonies. Im sure he will not remember what they looked like a year ago...just tell him this is what he gave you. It would be really funny to give him back tiny frags!

But what I would really do is tell him first. Not really ask but tell him. Im sure he wouldnt have much of an argument against it since you have been nice enough to keep them for so long!

Raiderwig · 10/20/2007, 12:24 AM

Maybe the reality is that your buddy has "lost" interest in having a marine tank but still just wants you to hold on to something of "his" just incase he wants them back( for whatever reason)

Tell him that it's time to make a decision about his coral. Either he lets them go because he is no longer in the hobby and you want to make some changes to your tank or he is in the hobby and wants them back to put in his tank?

If he wants cash for them then tell him how much it cost you just to keep them alive in time and effort of the last year!!!!

He should understand if he is "your" friend

Der_Iron_Chef · 10/20/2007, 12:24 AM

Have they grown much in your tank? I say cut them back to the size they were when he gave them to you, and keep those pieces. That way, he hasn't actually lost anything.

HBtank · 10/20/2007, 12:26 AM

Dude, just ask him, or tell him. It obviously is bugging you.

He is your friend right? I bet he could care less about your current plan.

Anyways, after a year I would now be giving him a deadline and soon he will be the one getting frags from YOUR colonies.

aquarius77 · 10/20/2007, 12:36 AM

I would offer to buy them, if ya cant come to an agreement on price id take primo frags and tell him he needs to come get his stuff. You have exceeded your end of the bargin, a year is silly.

jdieck · 10/20/2007, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lvpd186
I agree. If this person really is your buddy you should at least tell him that you want to take some frags. And if he really is your buddy he will realize that its a fair thing to do and let you (it sounds like a fair trade to me). After all if you didn't take the corals he probably would have had to get rid of them. Maybe you should offer to just buy the corals from him (at a very discounted rate for your troubles), then you could do what you want with them.

I double second this course of action. If he has lost interest he will be selling them to you at a fair price. I would also offer to give him frags of them when he is ready to go for his new tank chances are he may not ever setup another tank but if he do you will already have frags of them in your frag tank.

mystrybird · 10/20/2007, 01:10 AM

Your buddy should have offered the option of fragging for the favor! After a year of caring for them on your dime, you could just go ahead and frag away!
But you should ask for the bud's input.
Some questions to ask yourself: If my tank crashed and everything was lost, would the buddy hold me responsible?
Would buddy sue me?
If so, you had better ask.
Either way, after a year in your tank (assuming they have grown) you have every right to frag that portion. (at the very least)
Even if he set up a tank today, it would still be a few more months before it was ready to support any coral. If this person won't agree to let you frag a portion for the trouble, then you need to find some new buddies!
It's not like he does not have the lights as you said. A retrofit is not that expensive. Compared to the money your buddy would have lost with out such a nice friend to take in his corals, A sizable frag is nothing!

I think the entire colonies might be yours legally as the person seems to have abandoned them.
Ethically, you need to ask:
will the buddy will give permission and whether you care if he doesn't.
If turned down, take some small frags, bag the rest up and deliver them to the persons door.

cfarrow2 · 10/20/2007, 01:18 AM

I don't understand why you're so mad about keeping corals in your tank that you want to frag anyway. Why be so mad about keeping corals that you want to keep? Just hold on to the full grown corals! From the looks of it, he'll probably not start his tank back up anyway. By the time he does, you'll probably have more than you can handle anyway! Good luck.

edwing206 · 10/20/2007, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Der_Iron_Chef
Have they grown much in your tank? I say cut them back to the size they were when he gave them to you, and keep those pieces. That way, he hasn't actually lost anything.

Sounds perfect!

Seriously.

10/19/2007, 11:04 PM	#1
warwick123 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Edmonton, Ab Posts: 3	Ethical question. Hello, So my buddies tank started leaking a year ago. He asked me to hold on to his corals for him. I said ok as long as he set up another tank soon. Well a year later I still have them. Everytime I talk to him he says he's going to set it up soon. He has another tank to put his corals in but he has crappy lights on it. He has his old lights but he would have to retrofit them. I am starting to get really angry that he hasnt done anything yet. Mostly because he is taking up prime real estate in my tank, to the point that I cant get new coral because his is taking up all my room. His colonies are much larger then mine and for the most part alot better selection of coral. So my problem is, is that I want to set up a frag table in my sump, and take a good size frag from each of his corals, since he never comes over to see them and I doubt he is going to set up a tank soon they should heal nicely before he sets it up. Do you think this is a wrong or do you think that this is a fair "lot rent"?

10/19/2007, 11:10 PM	#3
dc Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Wyoming Posts: 44,684	Well I wouldn't do it without asking. Personally if he's your buddy, I'd tell him that you are keeping them if he doesn't get them within a certain time frame. __________________ Debi ~60 Cube~ Why? Because I said so of course. -Sent via Tapatalk Smoke Signals-

10/20/2007, 12:26 AM	#13
HBtank Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 2,957	Dude, just ask him, or tell him. It obviously is bugging you. He is your friend right? I bet he could care less about your current plan. Anyways, after a year I would now be giving him a deadline and soon he will be the one getting frags from YOUR colonies. __________________ 80g Aiptasia dominated reef tank.. with fish and now a bunch of berghia! Current Tank Info: 80g tank, re-starting a reef after a zoanthid nudibranch plauge, followed by months of steady and unstoppable STN/RTN, crashed; stayed FOWLR for a couple years, currently an aiptasia dominated reef tank with fishies and BERGHIA

10/20/2007, 01:18 AM	#17
cfarrow2 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Overland Park, KS Posts: 626	I don't understand why you're so mad about keeping corals in your tank that you want to frag anyway. Why be so mad about keeping corals that you want to keep? Just hold on to the full grown corals! From the looks of it, he'll probably not start his tank back up anyway. By the time he does, you'll probably have more than you can handle anyway! Good luck. __________________ Happiness is contagious. What are you spreading? Current Tank Info: 55 gal. 216 W. T5s. Wet/dry sump w/ Mag 5 return. Softies, 3 fish, shrimp, urchin. HA factory for the time being.

10/19/2007, 11:10 PM	#2
ckprax Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New York Posts: 223	I saw go for it. Nothing in life is free and neither is the prime real estate in your tank. It's been a year, he has had plenty of time to save up and start a new tank. You have been more than a good friend and he is taking advantage of that. If it was me I would give him a week to get a tank cycling or I would tell him he can pay me for my time and space or I am keeping/selling his former corals. just my opinion on the matter.

10/19/2007, 11:30 PM	#4
dafunk5446 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Longmont, Co Posts: 28	I say go for it, that is really stupid that he has taking that long. The way I see it is the amount of a frag you are talking about isnt to much, its not like you are taking half the colony. I am guessing the colony has grown more then the amount you are planning on taking, so take a lower branch that is going to die off any way.

10/19/2007, 11:33 PM	#5
Sonics Big B Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 46	A buddy is a buddy. You should not take frags without telling him. Tell him you are taking some frags and if he does not like it, come get his stuff. If he says OK, then frag away and go help him get his setup going.

10/19/2007, 11:53 PM	#8
K' Family Reef Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,966	look at it as a 'business decision' what has it cost you in say in electricity for liting/pumps/ETC ETC ETC your reef during the (time) his corals have been in your tank - plus your 'time' taking care of them (your time is WORTH something!)- care and maintanance of the system - salt cost etc etc how much is that worth? = your frags! (and then some) if you have had them over a year even though i know you said you guys are buds - frags should not be an issue w/ him... if it is then sit down and figure out what percentage of your 'real estate' in your tank his corals are taking up - then figure in all your salt cost, energy costs ETC ETC ETC - over the course of the time you have 'housed' his corals - divide up the costs and send him a bill!!! well then maybe you wont have to worry about frags - the corals ARE YOURS! ethical? yes! assuming its going to be above board and everyone knows exactly whats going on ahead of time!... if their is a problem w/ it or cannot come to agreement - well possession is 9/10 of the law and he STILL has a BILL TO PAY! rotflmao! regards

10/20/2007, 12:04 AM	#9
EyeCandy Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Orange County, California Posts: 235	Just say, " hey man your corals are doing so great, I had to frag them because they were getting big." No one should get mad at that. You are feeding them and keeping them alive. Do it.

10/20/2007, 12:21 AM	#10
JustinReef Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,715	Personally, I would frag them and then give him the frags and keep the colonies. Im sure he will not remember what they looked like a year ago...just tell him this is what he gave you. It would be really funny to give him back tiny frags! But what I would really do is tell him first. Not really ask but tell him. Im sure he wouldnt have much of an argument against it since you have been nice enough to keep them for so long!

10/20/2007, 12:24 AM	#11
Raiderwig Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Toronto Canada Posts: 291	Maybe the reality is that your buddy has "lost" interest in having a marine tank but still just wants you to hold on to something of "his" just incase he wants them back( for whatever reason) Tell him that it's time to make a decision about his coral. Either he lets them go because he is no longer in the hobby and you want to make some changes to your tank or he is in the hobby and wants them back to put in his tank? If he wants cash for them then tell him how much it cost you just to keep them alive in time and effort of the last year!!!! He should understand if he is "your" friend

10/20/2007, 12:24 AM	#12
Der_Iron_Chef Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Calgary, AB, Canada Posts: 841	Have they grown much in your tank? I say cut them back to the size they were when he gave them to you, and keep those pieces. That way, he hasn't actually lost anything.

10/20/2007, 12:36 AM	#14
aquarius77 Moved On Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Highland, Il Posts: 2,198	I would offer to buy them, if ya cant come to an agreement on price id take primo frags and tell him he needs to come get his stuff. You have exceeded your end of the bargin, a year is silly.

10/20/2007, 01:10 AM	#16
mystrybird Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: midwest Posts: 85	Your buddy should have offered the option of fragging for the favor! After a year of caring for them on your dime, you could just go ahead and frag away! But you should ask for the bud's input. Some questions to ask yourself: If my tank crashed and everything was lost, would the buddy hold me responsible? Would buddy sue me? If so, you had better ask. Either way, after a year in your tank (assuming they have grown) you have every right to frag that portion. (at the very least) Even if he set up a tank today, it would still be a few more months before it was ready to support any coral. If this person won't agree to let you frag a portion for the trouble, then you need to find some new buddies! It's not like he does not have the lights as you said. A retrofit is not that expensive. Compared to the money your buddy would have lost with out such a nice friend to take in his corals, A sizable frag is nothing! I think the entire colonies might be yours legally as the person seems to have abandoned them. Ethically, you need to ask: will the buddy will give permission and whether you care if he doesn't. If turned down, take some small frags, bag the rest up and deliver them to the persons door.