help xenia is not doing well

[aquaholic33]

My xenia is all shrivelled up and small the colony of 3. When they do grow when the lights go on they are only a inch use to be 3+. All my othe

[demonsp]

These guys are hardy and grow fast in many conditions. But angles will eat them.
How old are they ?

[zma21]

I definitely disagree on the hardy point. Many people have great success with them, but others with pristeen tanks can't keep them alive for more than a week. Just depends.

[cloak]

Originally posted by zma21
I definitely disagree on the hardy point. Many people have great success with them, but others with pristeen tanks can't keep them alive for more than a week. Just depends.

I agree.

[aquaholic33]

i have gotten ride of the angels months ago due to them eatings my zoo's. It's weird my pusling pompom xeina are doing great but the regular are not doing well at all. Tank is running for amost 3 years and have these guys for 6 months.

[demonsp]

either way they can be an indicater to problems. I would test all perimators. Also has anything differant been done or added recently?

[aquaholic33]

as stated just a change is lighting 2 weeks ago

[demonsp]

Sorry missed that. If they are higher whatts and you didnt gradually add time to allow them to adjust to the new light this could cause stress.

[zotzer]

Try moving them to a different spot, or to your sump (if you have a light) They can be finicky and do weird things, even when there is nothing wrong with the conditions in your tank.

I had one that lost all of it's little hands over the course of one day, and melted down to just nubs. Moved it to my nano, and within two weeks it was all back to normal. Have two other kinds of xenia in the main tank that are fine.

Bizarre little creatures, but I am one of those who really love them!

Tracy

[aquaholic33]

think they will bounce back?

[aquaholic33]

My xenia is all shrivelled up and small the colony of 3. When they do grow when the lights go on they are only a inch use to be 3+. All my other tank mates are doing great, pompoms, frogspawn,torch,mushrooms zoo's polyzoo's and leathers.
I did recently change lighting 2 weeks ago, but that is the only thing i changed i went from 2 175mh 2 400 mh to 3 150mh 4 pc atinics and moons.
I think it's a better lighting system and all my other coals agreed except the xenia. Only asking because i dont know if this is going to be a bigger problem down the road.

[demonsp]

All coral act differantly to changes. And light increases are a major change.
I would test water everyday to be sure its not the water readings that maybe in trouble. Be sure no ther coral are incontact and if they can be moved mb change there location.
My pompoms do shrivle up but seem to come back.

[demonsp]

Some guy just listed a good site for coral. I looked and they have a littel info on xenia.

http://www.asira.org/caresheets

[stingythingy45]

What do you run the temperature of your tank at?
Xenia does not do well in any tank that runs hot.
In the wild it shuts down in the summer months and dies back.
And if it's the Red Sea kind then it needs SG of at least 1.025 or higher.It also like the alk around 7-9 DKH.
Mine was doing lousy a month ago,but now is thriving.

[kathainbowen]

Xenia can be a fickle coral.

However, to be honest, without hearing any stats on the water and the care, I'd just be taking a shotgun approach to try to figure out what's going on. Really, if we have some more stats on the water conditions, temp, maintenance program, and, most importantly, the positioning of the xenia in the tank in relation to lighting, waterflow and other corals, it'd be a lot easier to pin point more of what's going on exactly, especially considering how fickle Xenia can be. Everything could be spot on, but, if it's sitting too high up, too close to certain corals, or in too high or low of flow areas, it can wither away and meltdown.

.... so.... how 'bout those stats?

[demonsp]

He added new light 2 weeks ago but the water readings would help. As i stated xenia could be a great water condition indicator.

[kathainbowen]

Originally posted by demonsp
He added new light 2 weeks ago but the water readings would help. As i stated xenia could be a great water condition indicator.

I got the part about the lighting, silly, but I'm just a big believer in looking at all of the factors to really assess what the problem could be. Things like too heavy of flow can cause xenia to appear stringy and discolored, while torrential flow can cause it to clamp up entirely. In that case, any powerheads or returns just need to be slightly lighten up on the current around the coral in question. If the xenia is too shallow in the water, it could still be adjusting to the sudden increase in lighting (although, two weeks is a rather long time), in which case the colony just needs to be moved down lower until its condition improves and bring it up again, slowly acclimating it to the new light. The new lighting could have almost stimulated nearby, tougher corals (I know, I know, what could be tougher than xenia?), which could be engaging in aggressively approaching and attacking the xenia (move a galaxia from under PC lighting to MH lighting and see just how long those sweeper tentacles can suddenly get!).

Xenia can most certainly be used as a water indicator, but really, I've come to learn that the technique is really only most effective when there are multiple colonies in multiple locations. This way, you can rule out poor water conditions if all the colonies start to do poorly (since, if it's just one colony, it might *not* be the water conditions, while, if it's all the colonies wasting away, it's DEFINITELY the water conditions). In that case, it could indicate lots of things. It could be too sterile of water (since xenia species, especially thin bar Xenia elongata, does better with a touch of nitrates, rather like a caulerpa, which has been earning it spots in refugiums anymore right alongside caulerpa and chaeto). This could definitely be the case if he did a big water change recently along with the new lighting installation (since once many reek keepers get into working on things, they can really go all out). On the same token, it could be too "dirty" of water, rich in ammonia, nitrites, and too much nitrates (although, really, you'd got to be pretty high up there to **** off thinbar). If there hasn't been a waterchange recently or any form of mineral replenishing, the new lighting could have stimulated the xenia or other corals to grow, sapping too much from the water (as xenia can be one of the first corals to suffer from an iodine deficiency), rather like having suddenly excellent growth in your garden just stripping the soil of any nutrients. Some lighting increases can cause a slight rise in temperature in the tank, which could also bother the xenia (personally, I aim for 82F whenever possible and no higher- with wonderful results so long as it stays there, and absolutely dreadful results this summer when the temps spiked up to 84F+)

However, all that being said, there is a problem with xenia. In the wild, it undergoes seasonal growth spirts and die-offs. The current thought, last I heard, was in relation to the temperature, nutrient load, and salinity. In the spring, when heavy inland rainfall brings nutrient rich freshwater out to sea, when the waters are slightly cooler, with a higher load of dissolved nutrients and a slightly lower salinity, it goes phenominally, spreading like a weed. Then, when the temperature goes up, the rains slow down, and the salinity spikes, it dies off. No one's entirely certain *exactly* why xenia does it, as many captive colonies will suddenly die off for seemingly no reason, undergoing their own crash. This can happen even if the colony is doing well and under excellent conditions for xenia. Some argue that this is a sign that some colonies are just outgrowing their sustainability, like wild deer populations without a natural predator outgrowing their food sources. I still find xenia, for these reasons and so many more to be one of the most misunderstood corals out there, incorrectly pegged as both uber-difficult and uber-easy in vastly differing opinions.





*phew*.... see what I mean about the shotgun approach?

Besides, I much prefer to save the shotguns for the day when the waking dead come after us for our tasty, tasy brains.

[aquaholic33]

hey guys thanks for the input. Kath. didn;t know about the dieoff approach ans salinity thing. As for my water, I did nothing in these past week except the lighting change. ph is 8.3 salinity is .018 amonia is <.05 nitrites are udetectable alk is 13 cal is 480.

[aquaholic33]

[chrisqueenz]

I am having the same problem with my Xenia after the water change last night..

[aquaholic33]

[kathainbowen]

Originally posted by aquaholic33
hey guys thanks for the input. Kath. didn;t know about the dieoff approach ans salinity thing. As for my water, I did nothing in these past week except the lighting change. ph is 8.3 salinity is .018 amonia is <.05 nitrites are udetectable alk is 13 cal is 480.

Wait... wait... wait.... hold on sec. Is that the specific gravity (1.018)? You might want to bring that up a bit. It's often been said that the "safe" range for fish is between 1.020 to 1.025 (especially letting the specific gravity sit at 1.025-1.026 for sharks), but, now, many reef keepers are leaning towards 1.025, since this is closer to natural seawater in most areas (but not all - and xenias sometimes don't enjoy being taken up as high as 1.025, depending on the colony). You want both your nitrites and ammonia to be completely undectable, too.

Anywho, getting to the question of this specific xenia colony, it does appear to be something affecting just those two stalks, at least, that what it looks like compared to the other colonies. So this rules out a lot of things. Judging by the color and the structure of the xenia, it all appears to be pom pom xenia (Xenia umbellata, aka red sea xenia). Pom pom can be a bit more.... easily perturbed than thinbar (after nuclear holocaust, thinbar xenia will survive, along with aiptasia, cockroaches, twinkies, and Kieth Richards).

It's tough to really tell for absolute certain in the second picture, but it has helped to definitely opened up a new possibility.

How long ago did the two "unhappy" colonies split?

New frags and splits sometimes take a little while to settle down, even xenia jumpers. If these are relatively new offshoots, or offshoots that are still climbing towards the light, it might take them a bit to settle down. By switching lights to something with a little extra power to them, you may have stimulated a sudden splitting. In which case, you just need to wait for a little bit. After cutting xenia, they often look like that.

[aquaholic33]

you know what they just split around the time i changed the light. Maybe I just need to give them time to readjust.
About the salinity, I was always under the impression that fish like the salinity lower ( less stress on them) and keep it higher to kill off parasites and or dieases.

[kathainbowen]

Originally posted by aquaholic33
you know what they just split around the time i changed the light. Maybe I just need to give them time to readjust.
About the salinity, I was always under the impression that fish like the salinity lower ( less stress on them) and keep it higher to kill off parasites and or dieases.

Well..... see..... there's a couple of strange things about specific gravity. Like I said, for years, it was commonly held that you should sit your specific gravity somewhere between 1.020-1.025. However, sea water is generally a bit higher than that (like 1.024-1.026 ish), and many people have been leaning towards that now. Personally, I have been enjoying living in the strange realm of nano and pico tanks, so, for me, it's 1.022-1.023 all the way (nanos and especially picos can see tremendous swings in salinity from evaporation, so aiming for 1.022-1.023 usually sets my tanks right around 1.024-1.025 by the end of the work day for me to top them off)

Dropping low puts you into what is called "hypo" or "hyposalinity." See, hyposalinity is when you have a lower that average (or "normal") salt content, where as hypersalinity is when you have a higher than average (or "normal") salt content. Hyposalinity is often used for dipping and treating fish over a relatively short time frame as it slows the growth and spread of bacteria and parasites, and even kills many of the things you're trying to weed out by going through such measures. When used properly and with QT, this can be a quite effective technique for keeping ich and other undesirables out of your tank. However, I wouldn't generally advocate it as a total panacea for a tank and constantly run hypo, as your fish will do better in a more natural environment (and, since, if you dip, qt, keep an eye out for nipping and aggression, and take good prevatentive care of your tank, you shouldn't really need to run your display tank that low). If all your fish are looking in optimal condition, then you shouldn't really need to run at that low of a specific gravity. Bringing the salinity up slowly and gradually will also help you replenish any trace minerals that make currently be sapped from the tank by coral growth as a result of the lighting shift.

Now, this is where I'm going to diverge from what I normally give as advice for a special note. Clownfish mating and egg laying is generally stimulated by a drop in specific gravity (usually 1.017 to 1.018). So, if you currently have an two adults of the same species pairing off and showing interest in nest building (and if you have any interest in breeding behavior, since it can be difficult to impossible for the average home hobbyist to care for a clutch of fry that feeds only on rotifers and other tiny, tiny bits), by all means, leave it that low.




.... hope that helps!